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    • Hermes lost parcel.. Read more at https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/422615-hermes-lost-parcel/
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    • I came across this discussion recently and just wanted to give my experience of A Shade Greener that may help others regarding their boiler finance agreement.
       
      We had a 10yr  finance contract for a boiler fitted July 2015.
       
      After a summer of discontent with ASG I discovered that if you have paid HALF the agreement or more you can legally return the boiler to them at no cost to yourself. I've just returned mine the feeling is liberating.
       
      It all started mid summer during lockdown when they refused to service our boiler because we didn't have a loft ladder or flooring installed despite the fact AS installed the boiler. and had previosuly serviced it without issue for 4yrs. After consulting with an independent installer I was informed that if this was the case then ASG had breached building regulations,  this was duly reported to Gas Safe to investigate and even then ASG refused to accept blame and repeatedly said it was my problem. Anyway Gas Safe found them in breach of building regs and a compromise was reached.
       
      A month later and ASG attended to service our boiler but in the process left the boiler unusuable as it kept losing pressure not to mention they had damaged the filling loop in the process which they said was my responsibilty not theres and would charge me to repair, so generous of them! Soon after reporting the fault I got a letter stating it was time we arranged a powerflush on our heating system which they make you do after 5 years even though there's nothing in the contract that states this. Coincidence?
       
      After a few heated exchanges with ASG (pardon the pun) I decided to pull the plug and cancel our agreement.
       
      The boiler was removed and replaced by a reputable installer,  and the old boiler was returned to ASG thus ending our contract with them. What's mad is I saved in excess of £1000 in the long run and got a new boiler with a brand new 12yr warranty. 
       
      You only have to look at TrustPilot to get an idea of what this company is like.
       
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    • Dazza a few months ago I discovered a good friend of mine who had ten debts with cards and catalogues which he was slavishly paying off at detriment to his own family quality of life, and I mean hardship, not just absence of second holidays or flat screen TV's.
       
      I wrote to all his creditors asking for supporting documents and not one could provide any material that would allow them to enforce the debt.
       
      As a result he stopped paying and they have been unable to do anything, one even admitted it was unenforceable.
       
      If circumstances have got to the point where you are finding it unmanageable you must ask yourself why you feel the need to pay.  I guarantee you that these companies have built bad debt into their business model and no one over there is losing any sleep over your debt to them!  They will see you as a victim and cash cow and they will be reluctant to discuss final offers, only ways to keep you paying with threats of court action or seizing your assets if you have any.
       
      They are not your friends and you owe them no loyalty or moral duty, that must remain only for yourself and your family.
       
      If it was me I would send them all a CCA request.   I would bet that not one will provide the correct response and you can quite legally stop paying them until such time as they do provide a response.   Even when they do you should check back here as they mostly send dodgy photo copies or generic rubbish that has no connection with your supposed debt.
       
      The money you are paying them should, as far as you are able, be put to a savings account for yourself and as a means of paying of one of these fleecers should they ever manage to get to to the point of a successful court judgement.  After six years they will not be able to start court action and that money will then become yours.
       
      They will of course pursue you for the funds and pass your file around various departments of their business and out to third parties.
       
      Your response is that you should treat it as a hobby.  I have numerous files of correspondence each faithfully organised showing the various letters from different DCA;s , solicitors etc with a mix of threats, inducements and offers.   It is like my stamp collection and I show it to anyone who is interested!
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Civil Enforcement Ltd (again!)


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just recieved a PCN from civil enforcement

i parked on their site in Blackpool at 7:17 to 7:28 in the morning whilst waiting to pick up a friend, i looked up at the sign and noticed the penalty charge then read that the car park was free from10am to 11.30 pm for 2 hours i immediately upon reading this left the car park due the time being 7.17 in the morning, there is no barrier stopping you entering the car park yet they still want payment of £150 or £75 within 14 days.

 

what is my position on this do i have to pay, sorry to be a pain after reading all the other posts but some clarification is required as mine seems to be a little different than staying longer than the permitted time.

 

I have taken both routes. I have used the template letters that are available on this site which were great and after a few months the parking companies dissapeared so I can highly recommend using them - do exactly as they say and send the letters in the correct order!! and ,,,,,,more recently I have used the IGNORE IGNORE IGNORE advice which so far has worked (ie i havent had a court summons) Whatever you decide to do, trust the advice on here. Do not appeal against it because there is NEVER an appeals process, they are just trying to open lines of communication with you. no matter what letters you get from them, or their solicitor friends, or baliffs - DO NOT be intimidated. they are just trying to get you to pay and you dont have to. just put the letters in a draw and make yourself a brew :O)

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We too received a pccn from NCP when we parked and displayed a disabled badge in the window. We had my disabled father in-law with us and its his badge. We didnt se any disabled spots in this car park so parked as close to the shopping centre as possible. Our father informed us that you didnt have to pay so we went shopping and when we returned we had a ticket stuck to our windscreen. This happened 2 weeks ago today and I have not paid the fine as yet for 2 reasons 1) I phoned ncp and asked about disabled parking (anonomously) I asked if you had to pay if you displayed a disabled badge and he replied yes. I asked him where at this car park did it state this and he replied that it didnt but also that it didnt say it was free to disabled badge holders!! (how rude) I hung up and have kept checking to see if our pccn number was available on their web site it asks you to type in your reg and pccn number I done this and it said that it wasnt on the system yet and would I like to pay?!! (I think not) I would love some advice on this issue please? anybody?

 

update just checked website and suprise suprise it is now showing!!!! What should I do? the fine goes up after today?

Edited by saramum
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We too received a pccn from NCP when we parked and displayed a disabled badge in the window. We had my disabled father in-law with us and its his badge. We didnt se any disabled spots in this car park so parked as close to the shopping centre as possible. Our father informed us that you didnt have to pay so we went shopping and when we returned we had a ticket stuck to our windscreen. This happened 2 weeks ago today and I have not paid the fine as yet for 2 reasons 1) I phoned ncp and asked about disabled parking (anonomously) I asked if you had to pay if you displayed a disabled badge and he replied yes. I asked him where at this car park did it state this and he replied that it didnt but also that it didnt say it was free to disabled badge holders!! (how rude) I hung up and have kept checking to see if our pccn number was available on their web site it asks you to type in your reg and pccn number I done this and it said that it wasnt on the system yet and would I like to pay?!! (I think not) I would love some advice on this issue please? anybody?

 

update just checked website and suprise suprise it is now showing!!!! What should I do? the fine goes up after today?

 

Hello and welcome to CAG. This thread is actually about a parking company called Civil Enforcement Ltd. and it would have been better if you had started your own thread, but never mind!

 

First thing to establish is wither the car-park is private or one run by NCP on behalf of a council. If private, then you do not owe them a penny as you have done nothing wrong and have not broken any laws. Also the Blue Badge Scheme does not apply to private car-parks. From now on do not contact the company and ignore any correspondence from them and you will be OK.

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oh guess what they refused to cancel the ticket

threatened with county court action aditional costs, interest and fees to be added and a further seven clear days to pay the reduced fee

 

is this the start of the threats now cause im thinking of starting origami with the letters

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oh guess what they refused to cancel the ticket

threatened with county court action aditional costs, interest and fees to be added and a further seven clear days to pay the reduced fee

 

is this the start of the threats now cause im thinking of starting origami with the letters

 

You are 100% correct.

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Just a quick post to say thank you to all who have contributed to this thread and for all the great information therein. I've spent the evening genning up after receiving a PCN from CEL. I now feel confident to do nothing other than wait for the 3 or 4 letters that will doubtless arrive in due course. To think that I was on the point of paying, so thank you for saving me £75.

 

Cheers,

 

Mobulu

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Hello and welcome to the site. It's great that the guys were able to help you.

 

I hope it's OK for me to ask, and I have nothing to gain personally from this, but once you're confident you have 'won', perhaps you would consider making a small donation to CAG? This will enable the site to continue and to help more people.

 

My best, HB

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Hello and welcome to the site. It's great that the guys were able to help you.

 

I hope it's OK for me to ask, and I have nothing to gain personally from this, but once you're confident you have 'won', perhaps you would consider making a small donation to CAG? This will enable the site to continue and to help more people.

 

My best, HB

 

Will do.

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  • 2 weeks later...

ok just to keep you all abreast of what is happening i have had a final leter demanding £150.00 seven days before the 28 days have expired.

they also inform me that this will affect me getting future credit (what tablets are they on) oh and in seven days they will proceed with court proceedings.

 

cant wait for that letter will it be as false looking as the final demand one does.

 

cant see how people fall for this rubbish but having said that i had read this before getting one which made my mind up oh well if a judge says i have to pay i will but not before.

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Hi Everyone

 

This is my first time posting, I have however been reading and using some of the advice on here already! however I am feeling the pressure and I'm very unsure with what to do now!

 

To cut a very long story short, I recieved in the post a 'fine' from civil enforcement ltd, I had absolutely no idea why I'd got the ticket so I called them. I was informed that my car was parked in a 3 hour car park for over that period of time! after looking in my diary i then realised that i had actually not parked in the car park myself, my grandma had dropped me off at the train station as i was going to a job interview, and took grandpa to a hospital appointment. after my grandpa's hospital appointment my grandma dropped my car off in the car park, please bare in mind she's 79 so just dropped the car off, not really looking for any signs of parking inforcement notices, my mum kindly drove my grandma and pa home so they did not have to come and get me in the dark. I live with my grandparents due to the fact that my grandpa is ill and my grandma can not afford to substadise the additional cost for a care home, or a care at home team, so i live with them to help them out.

 

I wrote to CEF explaining the situation, and that I was not driving the car or had parked the car, not only this due to me not having a job, i could not afford £75 as this is more then the benifits im getting, nor can my grandparents afford the costs as they are struggling with money themselves, what with my grandpa being ill.

 

I got a letter back from them saying they had considered my case but would not revolke the ticket, and they expected payment within 7 days! to add insult to injury, i asked them to write back to me directly at my grandparents address which I'd stated in my first letter to them, as i currently live with them and i am over an hours drive from my parents house where my car is currently registered too, as im only here to help for a period of time, to which they replied to my parents address so i did not get their reply till 4 days after there payment due date.

 

I then went to my local C.A.B and spoke with one of the free legal team there, they advised me to write to them, saying that i had been advised that all the time the ticket was is dispute they were not able to pass it onto a colletion agency. i also put in the following:

 

 

Your dispute is with the driver of the vehicle at the relevant time, to which I legally do not have to provide you with the identification details, not with me as the keeper.

 

Unless you are able to provide, to me, evidence that I, as keeper, am responsible for the alleged debt and that this alleged debt is an actual debt, to which you can prove you made a loss, providing a clear breakdown of the excessive costs to the total amount of £75.00, thereafter £150.00 I will be unable to enter into further correspondence with you.

 

Unless you provide me with the above mentioned evidence, this alleged debt will remain in dispute and I must ask you to cease and desist correspondence with me.

 

Therefore this penalty notice is still in dispute, you are therefore legally not allowed to pass this onto any enforcement agency. If you wish to take this to county court I will call 3 people forward as individual witnesses, to state who parked the vehicle, only will my defence hold the information of the driver. I will then put in for claims of expenses for my legal team, the losses of my witnesses from loss of earnings and all travel costs, as well as costs for undue stress your company have caused to myself and family members.

You were also asked to reply to a different address due to me not living at the address you contacted me on, therefore you ignored my request, making the response time more lengthy.

As a representative of Civil Enforcement Ltd, your company are now under notice of the above.

This letter is written without prejudice.

today i got a reply to my grandparents home!! stating the following:

"Although you state that you were not the driver, as Registered Keeper you have the necessary information about the identity and contact details of the driver to enable us to recover the amount due from that driver. We therefore require you to provide us with the name and address of the driver of the vehicle on the date and time when the vehicle was parked in the above-named car park, within the next seven days.

if you were not the driver at the relevant time, and you do not provide us with the requested details of the name and address of the driver at the relevant time (or if you give false or incomplete information), we will issue court proceedings against you seeking an order compelling you to disclose the requested information. It is quite widely (but wrongly) believed that registered keepers cannot be compelled to discloser information of this nature if car park is operated on private land. the relevant court order is called a Norwhich Pharmacal order, after the name of the case in which its availability was confirmed by the house of lords. we will seek such an order against you if you do not furnish us with the true details of the driver at the relevant time, unless there are resonable grounds for your failure to do so. If you believe there are such reasonable grounds, you must tell us what those grounds are. If it becomes necessary to go to court, further costs will be incurred.

you may of course, choose to pay the amount due and recover the same from whoever you authorised to drive the vehicle or instruct the driver to make payment directly to us.

We note your request for photographic evidence however, you did not send us the appicable fee. If you would still like to recieve photographic evidence, please forward a cheque for £10.00. In the event that your subsequent appeal is upheld, this fee will be reimbursed in full.

The charge that has been levied is clearly stated on the signage around the site. Furthermore, it falls within the British Parking Associations recommended guidelines for car park enforcement.

I am at the momment very unsure what to do, i have tried to get an appointment with the C.A.B but all the appointments were taken, with all the bank holidays coming up, i will not be within there stated time to reply, so am currently incredibly stressed about the situation. There is no way that i can pay the ticket as i just do not have that amount of money with the benifits that i am, they go towards food, bills and paying travel costs to job interviews.

If anyone can help me with a reply or advice, i would be very, very greatful.

Many thanks for reading my post.

Kind regards

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A Norwich Pharmacal order would cost them thousands in the high court and is not recoverable! Also it could be seen as an abuse of the court system in the county court. Its all bluff and wind. They are talking rubbish. You have told them you were not driving you have no responsibility to tell them who was.

 

They even quote the BPA which is a members club, as if it means anything. When it is as much use as a concrete parachute!!

 

Tell them to go forth and multiply. Nah don't just simply ignore them, just file any future letters under ignore.they have been told you were not driving, that's the end of it! Ignore from now and you and the grandparents relax and enjoy Easter!

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Agree entirely. Their threat of spending thousands to obtain a High Court order is laughable, as is their claim that you have a legal responsibility to disclose who was driving.

 

In entering a dialogue you have made them think they have a player so will no doubt ramp up the pressure, but do now what you should have done initially an IGNORE. They don't do Court!

Any advice given is done so on the assumption that recipients will also take professional advice where appropriate.

 

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Just ignore them. You've written more than enough already when you could have just blanked them.

 

You only have to Google 'Norwich Pharmacal Order parking charge' to see results from here, and pepipoo and MSE forums where other PPCs have tried that old chestnut!

 

Stop worrying about nothing. Oh, and stop wasting your life going to the CAB who haven't the first clue about PPCs. Did you know that the guiidance notes about PPC 'invoices' which appears on the CAB advisor's screen was drawn up by...the PPCs themselves! (the BPA!). That's why it suggests there may be a 'contract' that the CAB think you have to 'dispute'...DOH!

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Just wanted to thank you all so very, very much. I truly appreciate your responses. :0)

 

I will sit back and let them get on with it! My grandparents are non the wiser about the situation as they don't need the stress! But I feel more comfortable now, so again, thank you :0D

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Hi Everyone

 

This is my first time posting, I have however been reading and using some of the advice on here already! however I am feeling the pressure and I'm very unsure with what to do now!

 

Relax that is the first thing to do.

 

To cut a very long story short, I recieved in the post a 'fine' from civil enforcement ltd, I had absolutely no idea why I'd got the ticket so I called them.

 

Called them , first mistake.

 

I was informed that my car was parked in a 3 hour car park for over that period of time! after looking in my diary i then realised that i had actually not parked in the car park myself, my grandma had dropped me off at the train station as i was going to a job interview, and took grandpa to a hospital appointment. after my grandpa's hospital appointment my grandma dropped my car off in the car park, please bare in mind she's 79 so just dropped the car off, not really looking for any signs of parking inforcement notices, my mum kindly drove my grandma and pa home so they did not have to come and get me in the dark. I live with my grandparents due to the fact that my grandpa is ill and my grandma can not afford to substadise the additional cost for a care home, or a care at home team, so i live with them to help them out.

 

So you were not the driver who entered into an alleged contract and they have no way of knowing who the driver was at the time? End off story.

 

I wrote to CEF explaining the situation, and that I was not driving the car or had parked the car, not only this due to me not having a job, i could not afford £75 as this is more then the benifits im getting, nor can my grandparents afford the costs as they are struggling with money themselves, what with my grandpa being ill.

 

Second mistake, contacting them again.

 

I got a letter back from them saying they had considered my case but would not revoke the ticket,

 

Big surprise to everyone on this site!

 

and they expected payment within 7 days! to add insult to injury, i asked them to write back to me directly at my grandparents address which I'd stated in my first letter to them, as i currently live with them and i am over an hours drive from my parents house where my car is currently registered too, as im only here to help for a period of time, to which they replied to my parents address so i did not get their reply till 4 days after there payment due date.

 

The only letter they accept s one with a cheque in. Everything else is ignored.

 

I then went to my local C.A.B and spoke with one of the free legal team there,

 

Waste of your time.

they advised me to write to them, saying that i had been advised that all the time the ticket was is dispute they were not able to pass it onto a colletion agency. i also put in the following:

 

 

Your dispute is with the driver of the vehicle at the relevant time, to which I legally do not have to provide you with the identification details, not with me as the keeper.

 

Unless you are able to provide, to me, evidence that I, as keeper, am responsible for the alleged debt and that this alleged debt is an actual debt, to which you can prove you made a loss, providing a clear breakdown of the excessive costs to the total amount of £75.00, thereafter £150.00 I will be unable to enter into further correspondence with you.

 

Unless you provide me with the above mentioned evidence, this alleged debt will remain in dispute and I must ask you to cease and desist correspondence with me.

 

Therefore this penalty notice is still in dispute, you are therefore legally not allowed to pass this onto any enforcement agency. If you wish to take this to county court I will call 3 people forward as individual witnesses, to state who parked the vehicle, only will my defence hold the information of the driver. I will then put in for claims of expenses for my legal team,

 

You have a legal TEAM ???

 

the losses of my witnesses from loss of earnings and all travel costs, as well as costs for undue stress your company have caused to myself and family members.

You were also asked to reply to a different address due to me not living at the address you contacted me on, therefore you ignored my request, making the response time more lengthy.

As a representative of Civil Enforcement Ltd, your company are now under notice of the above.

This letter is written without prejudice.

today i got a reply to my grandparents home!! stating the following:

 

I take it you NOW see how you have wasted your time and postage?

 

"Although you state that you were not the driver, as Registered Keeper you have the necessary information about the identity and contact details of the driver to enable us to recover the amount due from that driver. We therefore require you to provide us with the name and address of the driver of the vehicle on the date and time when the vehicle was parked in the above-named car park, within the next seven days.

 

You will notice that they did not state the legal authority that they DEMAND the name and address of the driver at the time, because they have NONE.

 

if you were not the driver at the relevant time, and you do not provide us with the requested details of the name and address of the driver at the relevant time (or if you give false or incomplete information), we will issue court proceedings against you seeking an order compelling you to disclose the requested information.

 

:lol::lol::lol:

 

It is quite widely (but wrongly) believed that registered keepers cannot be compelled to discloser information of this nature if car park is operated on private land. the relevant court order is called a Norwhich Pharmacal order, after the name of the case in which its availability was confirmed by the house of lords. we will seek such an order against you if you do not furnish us with the true details of the driver at the relevant time, unless there are resonable grounds for your failure to do so. If you believe there are such reasonable grounds, you must tell us what those grounds are. If it becomes necessary to go to court, further costs will be incurred.

 

:lol::lol::lol:

 

you may of course, choose to pay the amount due and recover the same from whoever you authorised to drive the vehicle or instruct the driver to make payment directly to us.

 

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

 

We note your request for photographic evidence however, you did not send us the appicable fee. If you would still like to recieve photographic evidence, please forward a cheque for £10.00. In the event that your subsequent appeal is upheld, this fee will be reimbursed in full.

 

:lol::lol::lol:

 

The charge that has been levied is clearly stated on the signage around the site. Furthermore, it falls within the British Parking Associations recommended guidelines for car park enforcement.

I am at the momment very unsure what to do, i have tried to get an appointment with the C.A.B but all the appointments were taken, with all the bank holidays coming up, i will not be within there stated time to reply, so am currently incredibly stressed about the situation. There is no way that i can pay the ticket as i just do not have that amount of money with the benifits that i am, they go towards food, bills and paying travel costs to job interviews.

 

So, do as advised ignore these clowns!

 

If anyone can help me with a reply or advice, i would be very, very greatful.

Many thanks for reading my post.

Kind regards

 

Regards

Please remember our troops, fighting and dying in our name. God protect them.

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we are closing this thread as its FAR too big and takes AGES to load

 

please start your own thread .

 

 

dx siteteam

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

 

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

 

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

 

 

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