Wescot/RBofS.....Oh Dear!!

[shane5408]

Please feel free to pinch whatever you like.

 

 

!! you won't be able to sit down for weeks!!

[deedee1310]

Please feel free to pinch whatever you like.

 

Ooh Rory - how naughty are you?!

 

Beware the CAGbots!

 

deedee

[tinkerbell20]

Excellent thread:D

[The GodMother]

they lost neary 700 million last year so they may start be very active in recouping there money.

[angel_1]

Rory

 

you are a star and also to hopeful1 for helping me and linking me to your thread, thanks to you both, have had a great learning lesson tonight

 

so off i go to do that cca, even if only 1 of my 9 creditors cannot find the original cca it will be worth it, fab news for you , and for us, its great when you can see the thread from start to finish, ive started mine with mbna and other creditors will set up their own thread too,

 

hope im as successful as you though, have a fun evening ciao for now MAZ

[palomino]

How did posts 101 and 102, both dated 9th August get to be before posts 103 and 104 which are dated 8th August ???

[The GodMother]

glitch i think will report it to a mod.

 

Have reported it.

[palomino]

It turned out to be an unintentional trick question. The posts from 9th August were from last year. Apologies to all...

 

[citizenB]

It turned out to be an unintentional trick question. The posts from 9th August were from last year. Apologies to all...

 

 

Ooops. Nice one palomino :lol:

[The GodMother]

ok i cant cancel the report tho but when its looked into they will see the mistake.

[citizenB]

Rory, I think you were extremely lucky with the laws you were using for your account with Westcot.

 

I wrote the following to a Credit Card Company.

 

“Document Retention

 

According to sections 221 and 222 of the Companies Act 1985, a public company is required to maintain records for a period of six years (section 222(5)(b).

 

As a loan agreement is active until the agreement is terminated, I would suggest that all the payment records (and other documents making up the file - including the agreement/application etc) would be "live" until the account is paid, or terminated - thus, the full file should be retained for at least six years after that.

 

This interpretation fits in with Inland Revenue legislation that requires prime documents to be retained for a period of six years - AFTER THE END OF THE RELEVANT ACCOUNTING PERIOD. That would mean some files need to be retained for up to seven years. The relevant legislation is found in Schedule 18 of the Finance Act 1998 (paragraph 21) - of particular significance is sub-paragraph (6) which states:

 

"The duty to preserve records under this paragraph includes a duty to preserve all supporting documents relating to the items mentioned in sub-paragraph (5)(a) and (b)."

 

Finally, key documents/application forms etc must be kept until 5 years after that business relationship has ended. This is a requirement of The Money Laundering Regulations 1993, 2003 and 2007. “

I received a reply from them which says..

 

I can confirm that ??? holds data for 6 years and application forms for 5 years after the business relationship has ended in accordance with record retention guidelines. Therefore transactions data prior to July 2002 is not available and can not be provided.

 

So ... first of all I telephoned Information Commissioners Office who said their policy is for documents to held "as long as is necessary". Perhaps the FSA can help.

 

FSA said The Companies Act only requires for documents to be kept for 6 years. So if you had asked for documents in 2008 the company need only have kept them from 2002, 2007 from 2001, etc... They then advised me to speak to the Inland Revenue

 

Inland Revenue say documents are only to be retained for 6 years AFTER THE RELEVANT ACCOUNTING PERIOD which translates as april to april in each year, again if you were to request documents in 2008, they would have only needed to be kept from 2002. Then then put me through to the person dealing with Money Laundering who say.

 

Key documents ie statements/key documents/application forms again are only required to be kept for 5 years after the accounting period and from when a business relationship ends, so if it ends in 2008 they would only need to keep documents from the 2008 accounting period until 2013.

 

All of the above were adamant that the regulations do not require documents of any kind to be maintained from inception of account opening until 6 / 5 years after the close of the relationship.

 

This really ticked me off no end. However, one of the IR staff did ask my reason for querying this legislation. I said I had been provided with statements for 6 years and I wanted them from 1999. He said, if they dont have the statements from 1999 then how would they be able to prove the opening / carried forward balance on the first statement they have provided which was 2002 ??

[Goldlady]

He said, if they dont have the statements from 1999 then how would they be able to prove the opening / carried forward balance on the first statement they have provided which was 2002 ??

 

I have used a similar argument in court where an amount was debited from an account but there was nothing to show where it went to. It could have related to someone else's account - without evidence how can they claim the person owes that money?

 

I also argued on another matter where 18 months statements from the middle of the 'agreement' were missing, that there was no record of the amounts paid to the account during that period and we could easily have paid it off during that time.

[citizenB]

I have used a similar argument in court where an amount was debited from an account but there was nothing to show where it went to. It could have related to someone else's account - without evidence how can they claim the person owes that money?

 

I also argued on another matter where 18 months statements from the middle of the 'agreement' were missing, that there was no record of the amounts paid to the account during that period and we could easily have paid it off during that time.

 

 

Aha, I thought it was you that had done that. I am going to ask them to prove the carried forward figure ie the opening balance on teh first statement in the 6 years they have provided me with.. see what happens:)

[rory32]

Then then put me through to the person dealing with Money Laundering who say.

 

Key documents ie statements/key documents/application forms again are only required to be kept for 5 years after the accounting period and from when a business relationship ends, so if it ends in 2008 they would only need to keep documents from the 2008 accounting period until 2013.

 

But when they sell that account on then surely there is a new business relationship.

 

Anyway Wescott don't actually buy the debt they just work as agent of RBS so there is still a business relationship with the OC.

[citizenB]

But when they sell that account on then surely there is a new business relationship.

 

Anyway Wescott don't actually buy the debt they just work as agent of RBS so there is still a business relationship with the OC.

 

I dont know Rory, it is doing my head in:D

 

Although I think I lost the plot somewhat with your situation as the agreement / contract DOES have to be kept for the entire period of the relationship and for the period stated afterwards. It is only the statements there appears to be some confusion (for me at least) over. In your case, it was the agreement that they didnt have wasnt it ?

[flintstones1960]

gr8 thread - subbing for future ref

[rory32]

In your case, it was the agreement that they didnt have wasnt it ?

Yes.

[scampy]

Re-Post 32

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by rory32

. Failure to do so will result in me reporting this matter to The Financial Crime Branch of HM Treasury and any other authorities as I see fit.

 

:grin: "I just love the money laundering angle - it just worked a £14K charm for me. They will know those Treasury people will be all over them if they think their AML compliance is non existent."

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Hi All

 

Can i ask your advice please, should i use the same template letter that rory32 has written in this thread for my situation:

 

CCA original creditor and dca , they could not produce one.

Original creditor admit they do not have cca.

 

SAR original creditor and dca , they could not produce one.

 

Alleged debt was from 1999.

 

Its six months know after CCA requests and DCA have entered lots of U's on my credit file going back to 2000 NO DEFAULT THOUGH so original default must have dropped off.

 

DCA say debt not statute barred as i made a payment and 6 years is not up they say for another 3 months.

 

 

Thanks

[rory32]

Nothing ventured, nothing gained scampy. They know they can not enforce the account so you may as well inform them what you are willing to do to them if they don't berger off.

 

Even if they don't write it off it will help string things out until the account is definitely statute barred.

[The GodMother]

well what a good idea u have just given me Rory.

[user2001]

Subscribing ...

[lexis200]

Hi

 

I'm just wondering if the same letter (or rather a slightly amended version of it) could be used when the agreement they have supplied is nothing more than an illegible application with not a prescribed term in sight? They may have something with my OH's signature on it, but it has nothing of interest printed on it and certainly nothing that would hold up as an agreement that would entitle them to collect!

 

I'm pretty confident they have nothing else, as besides the fact they've sent the same thing 3 times, letters from them have become increasingly ridiculous (I can confirm the agreement would have been legible when it was signed and would have been properly executed etc).

 

Do you think I could use it to kick them into touch over this and try to get them to burger off once and for all, or is it something that should only be threatened if they simply don't have anything at all, rather than something completely unenforceable?

 

Thanks for any thoughts:)

 

Lexis:)

[rory32]

You would need to amend the letter to incorporate the fact that they do have a copy of the agreement. However their record keeping is obviously not up to scratch and they can not enforce the agreement.

[lexis200]

Thanks:)

[The GodMother]

Rory.

 

Can i send a copy of the letter if the company have sent me a sample agreement and said they would only look for it if the courts order them to.

 

The catch here is i know they have not got a agreement as i never signed onewith them.