tnook vs Barclays

[tnook]

Thanks for the replies. Its the actual trial that I cannot attend.

[welshcakes]

Hi tnook

 

Low Income is not a compelling enough arguement against a Stay (though extreme poor health, emmigration etc is).

 

As you cannot attend and it is the big one, I would be inclined to request an adjournment and give reasons why, as oppose to just putting in a written representation as the latter would in effect mean you are agreeing to the hearing taking place in your absence.

 

In view of it being a trial, have you contacted BLT recently to see if they wish to negotiate out of court settlement?

[tnook]

Hi welshcakes, I have written to them and called them several times over the last 3 weeks and they ignore all my attempts to settle. I included copies of all the letters and emails trying to settle with them in my court bundle.

 

How do I ask for an adjourment? Do I just write to the judge or is there a form to fill out?

 

Thanks for your help!

[tnook]

Ok I am drafting my letter to get the case adjourned. I am just a little worried about the reason that I can't make the trial. :o

 

It took so long to get a trial date from starting the MCOL process that the court case is now during my wedding and I'll be gone 2 weeks after that. Will it err get laughed out of court?

[tnook]

Is the wording here ok?

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

 

 

tnook vs BARCLAYS BANK PLC

In the XXXXXX COUNTY COURT

CLAIM No: XXXXXX

 

I, the Claimant, refer to the claim as detailed above and specifically the hearing scheduled for XX/08/07.

 

I wish offer my apologies to the honourable court for my non-attendance at this hearing, which is due to my attending my wedding and honeymoon. I had hoped this case would come to court earlier as I commenced the process in January this year, but the constant abuse of process, delay tactics and refusal to engage in any out of court settlement discussions by the Defendant has already impacted the date of the wedding. I had hoped to settle out of court and save the courts time and expense.

 

As such, pursuant to the order made by district judge XXXXX on 31/05/07, I wish to apply for a two-week adjournment of the trial. If this is not possible I will make my written representations as to how this claim should proceed.

 

 

Yours faithfully,

tnook

[dar£n]

you are doing the right thing by informing them but dont refer to the court as honourable that is for judges.

 

If it was mine I would add something like,

 

as the allocation questionnaire has been dispensed with on this occasion I was not given the opportunity to inform the court of any dates that I was unable to attend. Because of this I am now in a position where the date of the hearing conflicts with pre arranged personal commitments..blah blah blah.

[welshcakes]

I'd go as far as actually stating that it conflicts with your wedding and immediate honey of 2-weeks ... judges like you to be specific and your own marriage is definitely good cause for an adjournment!

[zootscoot]

Threads merged to help you and others to track your progress

[tnook]

Sent the letter yesterday. lets see if the case gets adjourned

[tnook]

No reply from the court yet about the adjournment request, case is on the 22nd. I'll give the court manager a call.

[tnook]

On the phone to the court. My case was adjourned till the end of October. The court manager also said that they are currently reviewing all bank cases and are likely to implement an indefinate stay on all bank cases until the test case is resolved.

[saintly_1]

What court is this please

[tnook]

Very dissappointed that the court is considering this blanket stay of all bank cases.

 

I guess I shall warm up the challenge to the Stay documents

Edited September 9, 2009 by tnook

[tnook]

With the banks hiding smugly behind the Test Case, should we all start claiming CCI just to add a little pressure? The longer the banks delay, the higher their potential penalties when they lose the case...

[tnook]

Of course we all know the fees are not for a service they provide, they are penalty charges but I was wondering, if the banks are claiming that the charges are for a service..... have they passed the VAT for the service they allege to provide on to the inland revenue? Should the tax man be asking for his money from the banks?

 

Should business owners ask for VAT receipts for the service charges and claim back the VAT?

 

Just wondering if there is a can of worms here the banks have overlooked.

[Kinc]

Oh My Oh My!!

 

Nice!!

 

Obviously the VAT man has all the paper work, or does he?

[Kinc]

You arrived at a good spot.

 

Banks are exempt from VAT on interest charged and for processing credit. This is where it gets nasty, by them charging when they are not processing credit i.e cheque bounce, DD denied etc , could land them in the poo. They are only exempt from VAT on the above, not on all the other charges which fall under additional services.

 

Don't forget their new line of thinking>>>>>they are all services!!

 

Can anyone confirm?

[Bookworm]

It would be rather pointless now that Judge Smith has very specifically said the charges are NOT for a service, and this is where the banks losing that part of the test case could use it as a defence for themselves, so rather an own goal for the consumer, one feels.

[Sparklez30]

See this is where I get confused. If the charge is not a service & not a penalty what is the charge for? I've racked my brains but I can't see how they can explain a charge that isn't one of the two (I think I'm missing something!)

[Bookworm]

Join the long queue of the confused.

 

It's not a service, it's not a penalty and the OFT, not I, will decide if it is unfair or not. Jeez, thanks, Judge Solomon.

[Sparklez30]

Glad its not just me then So now the OFT have to decide what a fair charge is for a charge for nothing (being that its not a service or penalty).

 

Hmmm let me think what do I think would be a fair charge for nothing

[Bookworm]

Now now, you're just being silly.

[ncf355]

Well,

 

at least we know a way to get back at them if they appeal and get the charges classed as a service

[nicklea]

Join the long queue of the confused.

 

It's not a service, it's not a penalty and the OFT, not I, will decide if it is unfair or not. Jeez, thanks, Judge Solomon.

 

Hi,

 

It was actually the OFT that was arguing that it was not a service - the Judge just agreed with them. However, it's rather more complicated than that.

 

The UTCCR cannot apply to the adequacy of the price of a service (ie is it too high).

 

The relevant bit in the judgement is p403 - 407.

 

The Judge did say that there was no service provided when they refused to make a payment (no sh*t sherlock!) - the Unpaid Item fee or Returned d/d fee depending on the terminology of the individual bank. Therefore the UTCCR can apply to unpaid item fees.

 

Apart from this, the whole argument was not "Was it a service?" but were the charges actually the price specifically for the service of making a payment (as the banks contended) or were they not the specific price of providing that service?

 

If the Judge had held that they were the price of the specific service then the UTCCR wouldn't have applied and the OFT would have lost the case on this issue.

 

However, he pointed out that the charges are made under a contract where the customer doen't normally have to pay them. He held that charges are not specifically for the services of the Bank making the requested payment but are levied because the services are supplied in particular curcumstances (ie only when you're over the od limit).

 

He goes into a lot more detail about it.

 

Hope this helps

 

nicklea

[patrickq1]

"However, he pointed out that the charges are made under a contract where the customer doen't normally have to pay them"

IS THIS NOT DETERMINED THEN BY A BREACH OF CONTRACT

levied because the services are supplied in particular curcumstances (ie only when you're over the od limit).

therefore have they not imposed a tax on us without agreement ?

just wondered

patrickq1