Penalty charges from Sky

[K-meister]

I have been charged a £30/month fee by Sky for the past few months for not having my sky boxes attached to a telephone line. (Problems with Bulldog...) Apparently it's in their T&Cs that you need your boxes to be connected to a phone line at all times.

 

They state that this is a penalty charge for breaking the T&Cs. Am I right in thinking that this is in the same category as the unlawful bank charges situation and that I should be able to demand the money back? The cost to them for me not having a line connected is certainly approaching nil.

 

I believe that the real reason for the charge is to stop "fraud" ie with the phone line connected they can make sure you dont give your £10/month multiroom receiver to friends, and if youre paying a £30/month extra penalty charge they dont need to care if youre giving the box to friends. However I imagine that this probably doesnt affect the legal situation?

[shelter pie]

HA HA

 

I cant beleive it - I have a Sky engineer coming to my house (well he should have been here by now) to try and sort this problem out for me!

 

It only applies if you got Sky multi room - and you are correct, it is to combat fraud! Apparentely people were given the second subscription to their neighbours therefore only paying around £35 between them instead of £24 each!!!!!

 

My problem is the Sky box is plugged into one telephone socket in one room and my telephone and modem is plugged into another socket in another room (with the broadband filter) what happens in my case is - the sky box intercepts the telphone line so Im without a telephone and a modem if I leave my Sky plugged in!

 

Im also being Fined £26 per month for this - Though if you threaten to cancell they will remove these charges!!

 

If you dont have multiroom you dont need to have your Sky box plugged in as long as you are out of the intial 12 month tie in contract period.

 

It cost me £68 for a BT engineer to be called out to confirm this is what was happening to my telephone line!!!! Sky dont want to know!!!

 

Im not holding out much luck the engineer can fix the problem today (they been out 3 times in the past) - and if you dont mind me posting here I will let you know how I get on!!!

[K-meister]

So you are saying that the sky box is answering the calls? Seems a bit bizarre to me (I program Sky boxes for a living). So have you actually verified it by calling your number with nothing but the Sky box attached and seeing if it gets answered?

Im sure if you can prove it's the box's fault Sky would have to reimburse your BT callout costs etc. If it was the box though then surely the Sky engineer could just give you a new one?

[shelter pie]

I dont know about it answering my calls, but when I picked up my telephone instead of getting a dail tone I would just get a very faint clicking on the line!!!

 

We couldnt dail out or anything. As for phoning in the line would sound like it was ringing (to the caller) but the actual phone wasnt - if this makes sense!!!

 

He still not here!!!! He even rang this am to say he'd be here at 11am!!!!

 

Gawd you gotta love em!!!

[buzby]

Doesn't sound as though the fault is with the Sky box. I'm not aware of them having any auto-answer facility, they only ever call out when they receive a satellite triggered request to call 'home'. If you have an ADSL line, you'll need to add a filter to the Sky box too - if you don't it stays offline permanently.

[K-meister]

If its messing around with the dial tone sounds like it would be a hardware fault with the phone wires somewhere, maybe two pins shorted or something. Possibly in the phone adaptor inside the sky box. Thats probably stating the obvious though.

[shelter pie]

It was to do with the modem cable (on the sky box)- he's replaced it so here fingers crossed!!

 

Anyway sorry to hijack your thread.

 

As for your intial query - it does appear to be a penalty charge like you said - wonder if anybody else has any ideas on it!!

[CAGisforME]

*sticks hand up*

 

Me

 

Me !!

 

Just had this argument with Sky ourselves. They fitted a dodgy adaptor for the two sky boxes to be attached to our bt line. We were then charged £55 plus vat by BT to discover that the adaptor was faulty.

 

So we unplugged it.

 

Then started to get the "Telephone Connectivity" letters.

 

They told me that they had "discounted" my first years subscription/rental/payment for the Skyplus box and would start charging me £30 more per month to cover that charge if i didn't reconnect.

 

So I told them to come and replace the adaptor.

 

They did - and i have just received a refund for the £55 plus VAT after I wrote to Sky.

 

Jennifer Waddell

Correspondence Department

Sky Subscriber Services Limited

4 Mackintosh Road

Kirkton Campus

Livingston

West Lothian

EH54 7BW

 

I then got in to a protracted argument about the non performance of my Skyplus box and have just received a new box and ANOTHER refund - this time for goodwill, due to the inconvenience. Again - same address.

 

Good luck

 

But re-read that Telephone Connectivity Letter - it details how much your payment will go up to and why - and it's carefully worded to ensure it's not deemed as a "penalty".

 

Hope that helps.

[Curlyben]

Guys, your Sky box only has to be plugged into an active phone line for the FIRST 12 months of any contract.

After that it's up to you.

Mines been out for 2+ years now and in that time NO letters and I've even had a replacement box.

[Movingon]

But re-read that Telephone Connectivity Letter - it details how much your payment will go up to and why - and it's carefully worded to ensure it's not deemed as a "penalty".

 

Wording the contract so that it does not SOUND like a penalty does not stop it BEING a penalty. Effectively the only person who can tell you if this is a penalty or not is a Court - they decide matters of Law, and whether or not it's a penalty is a matter of Law. I'm confident that they would see this as one, however the contract is worded. It's called "Cloaking the Penalty" and Courts are very familiar with the concept.

[CAGisforME]

Hi Curlyben (just "met" you on another thread)

 

Yes, first 12 months only. I only have 3 months to go and then mine's getting unplugged too.

 

Security? Possibly

Information mining? Definately

[CAGisforME]

Well, I dug out the Telephone Connectivity letter that I received when I was having this problem. This is what it says:

 

"I'm sad to say that if you don't resolve this issue within the next four weeks you will be in breach of your Sky Multiroom subscription contract and will be charged the full price of additional Sky digital subscription(s) for the service you received on each of your Sky Boxes, or have multiroom cancelled altogether."

 

In effect, when you upgrade to Skyplus and take the multiroom option (ie move your old digi box to another room) they give you a heavy discount on the installation of the new box and movement of the second and then give you a discount on your monthly payment.

 

I'm not saying that it's right that they should charge you an extra £x per month just because you aren't plugged in to the telephone line, but, whether we like it or not, it IS part of the contract you sign when you upgrade to Skyplus with multiroom.

 

Needless to say I will be unplugging mine as soon as my 12 months are up!

 

[Movingon]

Putting something into a contract and gaining agreement (when there is no other choice but to agree or lose the contract) does NOT make it lawful. The term in the contract authorising a disproportionate penalty may as well not be there, if that is what it is proven to be.

 

They COULD however remove Sky Multiroom from you altogether; if you breach the contract they can effectively deem it annulled. What they cannot do is charge you a penalty for it; whether you agreed to it or not. You cannot sign away rights given to you by Law because Law takes precedence over choices which would be unlawful.

[buzby]

There are really two issues here - the so-called interactive subsidy, where in return for your agreement to have your box connected to a phone line, you received a discount (this was originally subsidised by Sky 'Open', their interactive arm - but I've no idea which division of the company does this now.

 

Then there is multi room, the issue here isn't the interactive discount, but to provide Sky with an element of control over what happens to their discounted services on the additional box. Since you could just as easily give the box completely to a fried or neighbour, having it linked to your phone number keeps them happy. Don't do it, and multi-room is removed, you lose the discount and the full price charged. No 'penalty' issues here.

[Movingon]

Don't do it, and multi-room is removed, you lose the discount and the full price charged. No 'penalty' issues here.

 

 

They can remove the service but they cannot then also charge you the full price for it; simply because you are no longer receiving it!! If they do it very much IS a penalty. Removing the discount would surely be a similar "penalty" argument as that for not choosing Direct Debit...

[buzby]

No - they CAN charge for it 'MultiRoom' is simply marketing-speak for a discount on an additional box. I you prove to them (by having the boxes dial back with your registered phone number) then you receive the duplicated services at a discount. If you don't have them prove the boxes are co-sited, then the discount ends. That's pretty straightforward - especially since in both cases you receive exactly the same programming on both boxes.

[racer1]

If you dont have multiroom you dont need to have your Sky box plugged in as long as you are out of the intial 12 month tie in contract period.

 

Am I correct in thinking the above is incorrect?

 

Just had this argument with Sky ourselves. They fitted a dodgy adaptor for the two sky boxes to be attached to our bt line. We were then charged £55 plus vat by BT to discover that the adaptor was faulty.

 

We are four months into our contract...our box is not plugged in due to dodgy adaptors (phoneline, net and Sky didn't all work at once). Can have phone and net together but no Sky - should we contact Sky then?

[CAGisforME]

No, it's not incorrect.

 

Once you have passed your 12 month initial contract (or Skyplus Contract etc) you do NOT have to be plugged in to the telephone line. You are contracted to do so for the first 12 months of your contract only.

 

RE: Adaptors.

 

Yes, get hold of Sky.

I attempted to do this by telephone many times and was fobbed off. So I wrote to them (address in one of my previous posts) I now have a fully operational adaptor, a brand spanking new SkyPlus box and have received £64 refund for the charge BT made to check the adaptor and £20 "Goodwill" Gesture.

 

Good Luck Bispers

[racer1]

Sorry...when I chose first quote didn't see the "out of" bit for 12 months contract.

 

Will attempt to get hold of Sky but find them awful - you can ask something completely reasonable but they don't like it so hang up on you!

[CAGisforME]

Exactly Bispers.

 

I have had nothing but pleasant communication and refunds since I took to writing to them instead of trying to "communicate" with some of the muppets on the phone!

 

[ss_collins]

I think thats an idea