Guidelines - Requests For An Original Agreement Under The Consumer Credit Act 1974

[N.P]

I am new to the site, I recently had a company contact me saying they can see if a loan and/or credit cards taken out before April 2007 could be unenforceable. I sent off the forms for both a credit card and loan, they have recently got back to me stating that they have found the credit card does not comply with consumer act and is found to be unenforceable. I can either pay this company a one off sum of £495 or 3 payments of £175. Does anyone have a template letter i could use to send to the credit card company direct.

 

 

Hi rreeves,

 

Welcome to CAG.

 

Yep, you can do this yourself, why pay a third party anything?

 

Could you please start you own thread for each account you have and post a link to it back on here, so we can check in on you?

 

Do you actually have a copy of your agreement? Are you paying anything on these accounts? Have you disputed them at all? Are you being chased for them at all?

 

Regards

 

 

 

N.P

[rreeves2682]

Hi N.P

 

I dont have a copy of the agreement, however i am in the process of writing to them myself to request a true copy of the signed agreement, I am paying them at the moment, however feel reluctant to pay this months having had been told it does not comply with the consumer act and is found to be unenforceable. I have written to the loan company requesting the agreement to be sent - i am still waiting a reply (this has just gone over the 12 days the bank has to get back to me) i have had no response to this as yet. I ideally need a template letter to dispute the credit card as i have no idea as to what the the company that looked into has from them.

[1pc1]

My wife had settled a debt for Kays Catalogue a couple of years, recently we check her credit file and found a settled default for about £1200.

 

We can not recall of any Credit Agreement as she was a cutomer of Kays through a friend, can they default her. Can the default be removed by a court on the basis that there was no Credit Agreement Signed.

 

I have SAR'd them today but would there be any benefit in a CCA request.

 

Thanks

Les

[N.P]

My wife had settled a debt for Kays Catalogue a couple of years, recently we check her credit file and found a settled default for about £1200.

 

We can not recall of any Credit Agreement as she was a cutomer of Kays through a friend, can they default her. Can the default be removed by a court on the basis that there was no Credit Agreement Signed.

 

I have SAR'd them today but would there be any benefit in a CCA request.

 

Thanks

Les

 

 

Did you receive a Default Notice for this?

 

You should start your own thread on this. This could be quite an interesting one.

 

 

 

N.P

[waterminx]

Hi

Is it me - I cant for the life of me find a template for an SAR letter.

 

Can anyone point me in the right direction?

Ta

Waterminx

[waterminx]

Hi

So far - in response to my CCA requests sent in May I have received:

 

1. Nothing from Barclays re my bank account overdraft

 

2. A printed/unsigned copy of a loan agreement I took out last year

 

3. Copy T&Cs from Barclaycard and a suggestion from them that I SAR

them! "If you require a copy of the original application form you would need to complete a Subject Access Request via our Data Protection Team...... "

 

4. A photocopy of M&S ccard application form

 

I am assuming that I send SAR to Barclays re accounts and loan - as well as B'card as per their suggestion (which still perplexes me why they should do that).

 

Is that right?

 

Getting there.

Waterminx

[waterminx]

Attached (I hope) my M&S card Application form.

This dates back to 1989. Is it enforceable? Anyone?

 

Thanks for any help.

 

Cheers

Waterminx

[iddles10]

ignore me

[waterminx]

Hi - Got guidance re the form on the thread 'Is my Agreement Enforceable' and now have finally found an SAR template.

 

getting there.

minx0

[crazymamma]

can anyone help me please.i requested cca from hillesden securities,i recieved reply they say they have asked original client for this!!,but they say if they are unable to forward a copy of the original agreement they will be able to supply a true copy of the document which will comply with section 77-79 of the credit consumer act 1974.they will update me in 21 days!. i dont understand 77-79 what it is i can't find this anywhere , spent hours reading info basically i dont know what to do now .

[Dougal16T]

can anyone help me please.i requested cca from hillesden securities,i recieved reply they say they have asked original client for this!!,but they say if they are unable to forward a copy of the original agreement they will be able to supply a true copy of the document which will comply with section 77-79 of the credit consumer act 1974.they will update me in 21 days!. i dont understand 77-79 what it is i can't find this anywhere , spent hours reading info basically i dont know what to do now .

 

Good morning,

 

I don't see how they can supply a true copy if they are unable to forward a copy of the original agreement!! I think you are being given the run around.

 

MATTERS ARISING DURING CURRENCY OF CREDIT

 

Request for information:

 

This is your right under the legislation contained within section 77 (1) and section 78 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 - the creditor has an obligation to provide in formation which also extends to providing statements of account. Enclose a £1 postal order in payment of the statutory fee for the account, which will cover your request under s.77 and 78, if you have not already done so.

 

This copy letter sent to original creditor or DCA might also help:

 

Please be aware that I no longer acknowledge this debt to your company, and therefore require you to supply the following documentation before I will correspond further.

 

Firstly, you must supply me with true copies of the agreement you refer to in these matters. This is my right under the legislation contained within section 77 (1) and section 78 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 - your obligation also extends to providing statements of account. I enclose a £1 postal order in payment of the statutory fee for the account. Postal Order number 000000

 

I also require that you supply signed true copies of the deeds of assignment of the above referenced agreement.

 

You are reminded that you are obliged to supply these documents, whether you are the original creditor or not, under section 189 of the CCA 1974.

 

As you are aware, a credit agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the CCA and therefore is a complete defence to any court claim that is issued.

 

 

Best wishes

 

Dougal

[lexis200]

They referring to the sections that tell you what can be omitted, ie signature and other non-relevant info. Essentially they are telling you that if they can't find the document you signed then they'll make do by sending you one that is the same but unsigned.

 

As long as this is from the same period as when your account was taken out they can do it (but they do also need to send historic and current t's and c's which few actually do).

 

If they do send a blank doc it does not mean anything much. They may have it archived too deep to be bothered searching for it for long, or they may not have it at all. It's a bit of a toss up.

 

What they can't get away with is sending a blank document from another period in time to when you opened the account. It must be from the same time so that all the info you would have needed to see is available to you. Unfortunately if they do send you this and the other bits required then they have complied, even though they have not sent anything with your sig on it.

 

Personally I would be getting a SAR out to the OC specifically requesting the agreement - template here http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/576-subject-access-request-debt-a-dca - as I would be willing to bet you'll end up with nothing from the CCA if they've already primed you that they might not send the agreement.

 

They have 40 calendar days to respond to a SAR so you may as well get it done sooner rather than later if you decide it's the right course for you.

[lexis200]

Good morning,

 

I don't see how they can supply a true copy if they are unable to forward a copy of the original agreement!! I think you are being given the run around.Yes, they probably are stalling, but the Act tells them they can send an unsigned document as long as it's from the correct period (ie same in form and content to what you would have signed at the time - a fact that many of them overlook accidentally on purpose)

 

MATTERS ARISING DURING CURRENCY OF CREDIT

 

Request for information:

 

This is your right under the legislation contained within section 77 (1) and section 78 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 - the creditor has an obligation to provide in formation which also extends to providing statements of account. Enclose a £1 postal order in payment of the statutory fee for the account, which will cover your request under s.77 and 78, if you have not already done so.

 

This copy letter sent to original creditor or DCA might also help:

 

Please be aware that I no longer acknowledge this debt to your company, and therefore require you to supply the following documentation before I will correspond further.

 

Firstly, you must supply me with true copies of the agreement you refer to in these matters. This is my right under the legislation contained within section 77 (1) and section 78 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 - your obligation also extends to providing statements of account. I enclose a £1 postal order in payment of the statutory fee for the account. Postal Order number 000000

 

I also require that you supply signed true copies of the deeds of assignment of the above referenced agreement.They are not required to do this. You should have had a notice of assignment either from the DCA or the OC, but they are not required to send a copy of the deed AFAIK.

 

You are reminded that you are obliged to supply these documents, whether you are the original creditor or not, under section 189 of the CCA 1974.

 

As you are aware, a credit agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the CCA and therefore is a complete defence to any court claim that is issued.Unenforceable agreements and non-compliance are two very different animals, be careful not to get them mixed up. Agreed that whilst they do not comply they can not technically enforce (although they likely will give it a go), it does not automatically mean they do not hold an enforceable agreement.

 

 

Best wishes

 

Dougal

 

Lexis:)

[stapeley]

Recieved a letter warning of a STATUTORY DEMAND being prepared . I have not recieved a true copy of a signed CCA . Only a copy of an application form . I am on a low income and do not own any assets . My wife has a good income and the house is in her name only . What should i do ?

[N.P]

Recieved a letter warning of a STATUTORY DEMAND being prepared . I have not recieved a true copy of a signed CCA . Only a copy of an application form . I am on a low income and do not own any assets . My wife has a good income and the house is in her name only . What should i do ?

 

 

Have no fear, I dealt with one of those a couple of months ago.

 

Do you have your own thread for this?

 

Give me some time to dig my letter out, and I`ll post it up soon. However, someone might beat me to it.

 

Just relax!

 

 

 

N.P

[N.P]

Recieved a letter warning of a STATUTORY DEMAND being prepared . I have not recieved a true copy of a signed CCA . Only a copy of an application form . I am on a low income and do not own any assets . My wife has a good income and the house is in her name only . What should i do ?

 

 

Send the empty heads this.

 

You`ll need to edit it slightly first. Have fun

 

 

 

 

 

ACCOUNT IN SERIOUS DISPUTE

 

 

DO NOT IGNORE THIS LETTER

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Clowns,

 

Reference: ARG Financial Services / Account No. YOURS.

 

 

I refer to your letter dated 20th April 2009, which included the threat of issuing a Statutory Demand Notice. I do not acknowledge any debt to you or any company you claim to represent.

 

This alleged debt is disputed on the grounds that it includes unfair and/or unlawful charges. In addition, the PPI connected to the account was missold, or more like added in Store, and I will be claiming a full refund of all premiums paid. I do not understand why your clients, who are well aware of the dispute, continue to pass the account from Debt Collection Agency to another, knowing that failing to suspend collection activity when a debt is disputed is contrary to the Office of Fair Trading Guidance on Debt Collection.

 

Furthermore, your clients remain in default of a formal request dated 24th July 2007, made pursuant to s.78(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and s.78(6) therefore applies. Although your client failed to comply fully with my request, they did send a document they averred to be a true copy of the credit agreement, which did not contain the terms prescribed in s.61 of the Act and is therefore unenforceable under s.127(3).

 

In the circumstances, your threat to issue a Statutory Demand is contrary to s.7(2)e. of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008. Be assured that if, notwithstanding the above, you issue a Statutory Demand I will bring your failure to comply with your legal and regulatory obligations to the Court's attention when I have the SD set-aside with costs.

 

You should take this letter as a formal complaint about your breaches of the OFT Guidance and Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008. I require you to deal with my complaint under the complaint procedure required by the Consumer Credit Act 2006. You should send me a copy of the procedure without delay.

Take notice that I require any further communication in this matter to be in writing. For the avoidance of doubt, this means that you must not telephone me again; if you do, I will consider your actions amount to harassment and respond accordingly.

 

If you do not understand any part of this letter, you should seek Professional advice.

Yours sincerely,

 

 

 

 

N.P

[JonCris]

Recieved a letter warning of a STATUTORY DEMAND being prepared . I have not recieved a true copy of a signed CCA . Only a copy of an application form . I am on a low income and do not own any assets . My wife has a good income and the house is in her name only . What should i do ?

 

 

If they are your debts then her assets & income cannot & shouldn't be touched. Don't even suggest to the creditor that you wife will help pay

[Shrike]

Hi. I have requested a CCA from Loyd's Bank and they have written back to say that they only have to keep the agreement for six years and as the debt was started over six years ago they do not have to produce a CCA. I have today written back asking them to point out the section of the CCA ACT 1974 which states this six year rule. I think they are trying it on and are actually refering to the six year debarrment rule where no action has taken place for six years, to try to confuse me.

Am I right that regardless of the time scale of the debt, they must produce a copy of the CCA.

I have also told them that I am taking no action until they produce a valid copy of the CCA.

[homespun]

hi,

if you have made no payments over this time or had any contact with them its statute bard.

this means that the debt is totaly uninforcable

 

alan

[JonCris]

If they want to dispose of the paperwork to an active account I'd tell them that's their problem cos without one they can't enforce it AND you can guesstimate any claim you have against them

[car2403]

Oh dear.

 

The Companies Act requires them to keep documents, proving the Account for tax purposes, and they have to comply with Money Laundering Regulations, for obvious reasons for 6 years after the Account ends.

[underdog13]

If they want to dispose of the paperwork to an active account I'd tell them that's their problem cos without one they can't enforce it AND you can guesstimate any claim you have against them

 

What could you claim against them for in these circumstances, JonCris?

[N.P]

Oh dear.

 

The Companies Act requires them to keep documents, proving the Account for tax purposes, and they have to comply with Money Laundering Regulations, for obvious reasons for 6 years after the Account ends.

 

 

That is interesting! I`ll keep a note of that

[car2403]

This is what I was referring to;

 

According to sections 221 and 222 of the Companies Act 1985, a public company is required to maintain records for a period of six years (section 222(5)(b)). As a loan agreement is active until the agreement is terminated, I would suggest that all the payment records (and other documents making up the file - including the agreement/application etc) would be "live" until the account is paid, or terminated - thus, the full file should be retained for at least six years after the termination.

 

This interpretation is repeated by Inland Revenue legislation that requires prime documents to be retained for a period of six years - AFTER THE END OF THE RELEVANT ACCOUNTING PERIOD. That would mean some files need to be retained for up to seven years. The relevant legislation is found in Schedule 18 of the Finance Act 1998 (paragraph 21) - of particular significance is sub-paragraph (6).

Finally, key documents/application forms etc must be kept until 5 years after that business relationship has ended. This is a requirement of The Money Laundering Regulations 1993, 2003 and 2007

[N.P]

Damn your good!

 

I`ll have to add a new Favourites folder to save links to all these handy snippets.

 

Nice one

 

 

 

N.P