Direct debits - evil!

[No6]

I've recently rebelled against direct debits now I know how they really work. It's an insecure back door way to hoover up any amount from your account. Sure, you'll get all the hype about the Direct Debit guarantee, the vested interests want you to pay by direct debit as it's convenient for them.

 

You fill in a form, the company types your details in to their banking software (first security loophole, the admin staff know your personal details), the software collects money from your bank, note there is no way your bank puts a ceiling on the amount which can be collected, my daughter works in a bank and I'm an IT Manager, your signature is not checked at all, (the law has changed recently so it doesn't have to be) and there is no mechanism in the banking system to prevent them taking out more than one payment a month. In theory they can hoover your account out daily and you can't stop it. Again in theory you can cancel but once people know your bank details there's nothing to stop them setting it up again.

 

Eventually the banks will catch up and the cash will probably be refunded, but in today's identity theft ridden society I've gone back to insisting on standing orders. These are far more secure, you tell your bank to pay into someone else's account, it's still as convenient but you do noy have to give your bank details away to anyone, indeed they have to give you theirs.

 

Remember as a customer, buyer, whatever YOU too have terms and conditions of doing business. One of mine is now no direct debits. The other is no unsolicited direct personal contact by calling at the house or using the telephone.

 

Take back control of your bank account - companies will be totally wazzed off (I'm being polite) but no standing order = no business. If you threaten not to do business they usually back down, they have to really. YOU have the power, you're the customer, you're the boss. Remember that always, the buyer is in charge.

[mazza1970]

Most of my bills are now paid by standing order or at the local shop/post office through the pay point scheme, as I have also been stung by money coming out twice in one month.

[Guest NATTIE]

I work for a bank and part of the system you are talking about is called AUDDIS which is where the bank are not involved in setting up the DD. However please remember how much money it then puts on your bill for not paying by that method, devil's advocate and all that. I agree that no limit is placed on a DD but the agreement between you and the company should ensure that it can and should work fine.

[No6]

I agree the bank is not involved in setting up the DD, I'm not having a swipe at banks per se, but I am regarding the DD system. That's my point there is no safeguard in the system itself, only in the terms and conditions of the DD and agreement with the company.

 

Sorry that's not good enough these days, I do not want anyone knowing my bank details, whats to stop unscrupulous staff passing it on? Nothing.

 

With standing orders no one knows my details. It's the system I've rebelled against, forget the terms and conditions they do not form part of the process, just words on a bit of paper. And it's my bank account and my cash and I'll decide what goes out of it and when.

 

Vested interests will shove DD's down your throat, sure zillions work OK I accept, but I'm too wise to fall for that one again. I've had people take two instalments "in error", yeah right, the "error" is never in my favour. Amazing I don't think, hence my strong anti - DD stance.

 

It's about taking control back and as I said Standing Orders are just as convenient but I decide who to pay, I enter the bank account to be paid, not someone else entering my details onto their system.

[bathgatebuyer]

I know of someone who set up a monthly direct debit system for council tax and ended up paying a full year in one go! Did the Council give it back? Yes, but only after having to get a solicitor involved and not eating for 6 weeks!

 

I do not trust direct debits at all - where possible I've switched to paying at the Post Office and obtaining a receipt each and every time.

[Slidingsash]

Reading todays Daily Mail (21st March) it suggests unfair fees for not paying by DD may be an illegal charge in a similar way to bank charges. Worth looking into.

My own story of woe concerns the Talk Talk phone account. Twice they've taken the monthly fee twice (hope that makes sense) and would only roll over the credit against the following months fees. So I canceled their DD and guess what, no free broadband unless I reinstated it. Come back BT, all is forgiven!!

[No6]

Yep, it's all about control. Take back control of your bank account and tell them it's standing order, paypoint, cash etc or nowt. They hate it. I love it when we fight back.

 

[Allyxia]

Yes me too. Brace yourselves for my daily rant off!!!

 

I have been stung so many times regarding direct debits.

 

Half of my bank charges have arisen from one greedy DD going out then the others bouncing, then getting charged, then more bounced - you get the idea.

 

Ok so Ive had the charges refunded, but it still doesnt stop the process of going through it all!

 

When does having a direct debit agreement give organisations carte blanche on your account - many use it like the proverbial cookie jar!!!!!!

 

I too use PayPoint for all my utilities inc Countil Tax.

 

Only today had lovely letter from my mortage company its going to cost my over £200 in interest adjustment to move my DD from the 15th to 20th of each month.

 

And whilst Im on the rant........bring back the cheque book.

 

For those bills I dont pay by PP, I like to post cheques off. Internet banking has caused numerous probs in the past as payments have taken 3 or 4 weeks to reach their destination (sorry a bank statement is not evidence that you have paid us allyxia - then what the hell is) and telephone payment is a complete nightmare for someone with Dsylexia and cant read of sequences of numbers or input them on a keypad! I dont want to have to go into my medical history just to exlpain why i cant pay this way to flipping call center staff every month!!!!!!

 

I WILL PAY MY BILLS ON TIME - JUST LET ME PAY THEM MY WAY!!!!!

[No6]

WILL PAY MY BILLS ON TIME - JUST LET ME PAY THEM MY WAY!!!!!

 

I wholeheartedly agree. Like I've said there is absolutely no control from your bank's computer system to the company's, they can take any amount any time and there is no mechanism in the system to prevent it.

 

They'll witter on about "terms and conditions", which in practice are meaningless if you are skint and somebody has vaccummed your bank account, and you have nothing to live on till it's sorted out weeks later. "Terms and conditions" is a smokescreen to stop us rebelling against this form of burglary.

 

Push for standing orders.

[JenniBee8]

I would like to add that many companies (Virgin Media in particular) actually CHARGE you for not paying them by direct debit! (I think it's about £3.50 a month). How can they get away with this? Surely it doesn't matter how you pay your bill as long as you are paying?

[No6]

Yes they want us all to pay by direct debit so they are in control. They run the banking software (I've done it - I used to work as an IT manager so I know the system ) on a date fixed by them so the money goes into their account on a certain date - it's all about THEM managing their cash flow and being in control.

 

Tell 'em to shove their Direct Debits where the sun doesn't shine, and say you'll pay be standing order instead.

 

Watch their face drop, it's as if you're taking their pensions away.

[bathgatebuyer]

It's absolutely about control. I used to pay everything by DD when I got paid monthly (which was over the past 9 years) however in the past 10 months I've been in a role where I get paid every 4 weeks, my pay is on various days throughout the month and it's so much easier paying by cheque, paypoint, cash, etc, as I know exactly what is being paid and when.

 

I've paid a few things up front like my TV licence and contents insurance, and also pay at the PO for my electricity and Council Tax which, although it doesn't seem a lot, these are things I've previously had bother keeping track of coming out my account.

 

Woo hoo! I'm in control now!

[rks99]

I had set up a DD with Tiscali for an internet PAYG, but didn't use it at all, and cancelled on the phone within two hours of setting it up. Was told 'no-charge'(their t&c) I also wrote and got a reply saying that I had cancelled on the same day.

Then 3 1/2 months later the bastards create a new DD instruction debiting £0.48p from my a/c. Ring up the idiots and they say it was to cover ONE day's charge( WTF for ?).

How DARE they create a new DD without MY permission .

Then another ****in digital tv channel have written in to say they are re-newing all their DD id numbers . This is probably so that they can create a new DD instruction for all their ex-customers who are cancelled their DDs with them.

GOD some companies are ****ed -up.

That leads me think of UK Plc and we all know who runs that.

[remus]

who invented direct debits?? the easy way to pay:eek:

I should imagine most charges rise from dd's coming out on the day money go's in, or not quite enough to pay them. when did it change that money had to be in on the day before, and not at close of buisness??

And when you cancel dd's to stop you going overdrawn you then have to get it all set up again with the company, causing more agro!

DD's have been the bane of my life for the past 4 years and they are EVIL:mad:

[shelter pie]

Oh the irony!!!!

 

I wouldnt be here on this web site if DD were a reliable and easy way to pay!!!!

 

However have you ever tried to explain to people why nasty side of DD = no they just think you are some mad spend thrift who deliberately withdraws their money out of their account!!!

[Stillborn Crisps]

I would like to add that many companies (Virgin Media in particular) actually CHARGE you for not paying them by direct debit! (I think it's about £3.50 a month).

 

It's actually £5 a month - £60 a year.

 

Has anyone here successfully claimed back DD fees from any institution using a method like the bank charges claims? (ie not just phoning them up and getting a few months worth refunded).

[Guest NATTIE]

i think bong has done that.

[Shoestring]

No6, I applaud your resolve on this issue. DD's are outright robbery, plain and simple. Tell me though, how do you respond to business entities who refuse to take Standing Order payments and insist on either DD or credit card transfers?

 

TODAY'S STANDING ORDERS - BRING BACK STANDING ORDERS!

 

Shoestring

[Darren]

I agree the bank is not involved in setting up the DD, I'm not having a swipe at banks per se, but I am regarding the DD system. That's my point there is no safeguard in the system itself, only in the terms and conditions of the DD and agreement with the company.

 

When we joined Sky tv they gave our bank details to Domestic & general, who operate sky insurance. we eventually got our money back, but it shouldnt have happened in the first place.

 

As for having a swipe at the banks, I am. DD guarantee - not worth the paper its written on, the banks answer was 'no we dont have a copy of your signed authority for this DD as we dont need one, if you want your money back you'll have to contact the company concerned'

[remus]

shoestring my question as well,I beleive companys cannot refuse your method of payment,point in case,I pay by bank transfer, 1st credit said I could'nt do it that way, (I think the banks charge them to much:D ) I said its the only way I can pay, and thats how I do it, I'm in control, they get the money, and I don't go into a sweat coz a dd is due on the same day money go's in and will be bounced:mad: .

[remus]

I also pay C.A.R.S. by bank transfer, and they are getting their knickers in a twist, I paid for three months, they couldnt find the payments, I gave them all the details, they found the payments, emailed confirmation which I have on file, two months later, I receive defaulted arrangement! oh no I havent:D bring it on:cool:

[remus]

darren, no one will admit fault when the DD's go wrong, company says its bank bank says its companys, and we end up between a rock and a hard place:(

[remus]

No6, how have you managed to get round car insurance, well any insurance, as these I do by dd but rea;) lly dont want to?

[No6]

I pay my car insurance annually by credit card. (Note - not a debit card). The reason I use a credit card not my debit card for all internet transactions, or payment over the phone is that if anyone fraudulently uses my card, it's the bank's money they are ripping off not mine. I'm not waiting 6 weeks to get my cash back. B******s to that.

 

You should have seen my "personal banker's" face when I said that. And I pay my credit card in full every month so it cost me nowt. Hehehehe

 

As for not having a swipe at banks, I apologise - I am. They set this insecure system up. There is absolutely NOTHING in the system to prevent a company simply resetting up a Direct Debit even after you cancel it. Once they have your bank account details, they can take as much as they like as frequently as they like. They can set up two, three, four direct debits on your account and you cannot stop them. I accept this scenario would be unlikely to happen but it is not impossible. The system is so insecure they can do what they like.

 

I received my phone bill two days ago. Printed on it were the words "well if you dont want to save £12 a year by paying by Direct Debit, you can pay by other methods". My phone company is Kingston Communications based in Hull, they are a complete shower, but that's another story, they are obsessed by getting people to pay by Direct Debit. Needless to say I will be paying by cheque, I like a stamped receipt which will stand up in court as evidence of payment.

 

If you must use these devils inventions, direct debits, have a separate account for your real money and put just enough dosh in your "direct debit" account to cover all the direct debits and let the buggers squabble over that.

 

Campaign for Standing Orders - it's YOUR money and YOUR bank account, don't let the weasels in by the back door, get them to give you THEIR bank account for the standing order mandate - watch their faces they hate it. Standing Orders can only be set up by YOU, it's as automatic as a direct debit but you are in full control.

 

As a side issue, I've had a lot of financial hassle in the past. With a direct debit "they" have to collect your cash, once you get a County Court Judgement they amazingly want payment by Standing Order instead, because the onus is on you to pay. If they dont get their monthly instalment they can go back to court. However if you paid a CCJ by direct debit and they forgot to collect the onus is on them and they would look stupid going back to court. It proves the point - it really is all about control.

 

And here's another snippet - the law has changed recently so you do not have to give your signature when setting up direct debits. As for those silly direct debit mandate forms - do you know what happens to hem? They get binned. They do not need to go back to your bank for checking, your bank cannot stop a direct debit anyway. When my daughter worked for a bank, they just chucked the cards away. Direct debits simply go straight through the computer system. It's a great way for criminals to rob anyone.

 

Banks should be sued for negligence by allowing such an insecure system.

[remus]

just had a thought, hsbc wrote to me to say they could not honour a dd from amber credit, and would be charging me £10 for considering it! I have the few remaining dd's with Nationwide and wrote to hsbc that as there was no dd set up they couldnt charge. No6 is this a point in case:confused: