How to deal with "goodwill payments"

[Pondfish]

Hi,

Following Vamp's excellent advice thought i'd air this letter prior to sending it, any comments appreciated!

Think this covers all the bases with the GOGW payment - over to Lloyds

Pondfish

xxxxxx

xxxxxx

xxxxxx

xxx xxx

25.1.2007

Lloyds TSB

Customer Service Centre

Dept.95-11

Box 5

BX1 1LT

 

Dear Sir / Madam,

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER. xx-xx-xx xxxxxxxx

 

Further to my letter dated 12.1.2007

I am disappointed that you have not responded to my conditional acceptance of your “Goodwill Gesture” of £750-00 as part–settlement of my full claim of £4,652-00.

I stated in the letter that I would only accept the sum offered as a part-settlement, with the clear understanding that I would pursue recovery of the remainder, with a County Court claim. If you disagree with my conditional acceptance, you should remove the money from my account immediately. If it has not been removed within 7 days, I will deem the condition of part-settlement as being accepted by you.

Please could you also send me a detailed breakdown of how you have arrived at the £750-00 payment within 7 days, or I will apportion the part-settlement against my claim as I see fit.

I trust this clarifies my position.

 

 

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

 

 

 

Pondfish

[bill-k]

Yeah, looks good to me, Pondfish. That's about everything covered as per Vamp's recommendations.

[Pondfish]

Thanks Bill,

 

That new Contractual spreadie ready yet?

Vamp seemed to think it was good to go!

[bill-k]

The new spready was actually for dealing with scenario 1 payments, which as it turns out, are uncommon, I think. The scenario 2 payments, which are really what we are getting here, are still just a matter of carrying on with our claim until settlement, then just deducting the payment made from the final settlement payment required. So a bit of an anti-climax, really !!

 

But we've upgraded some contractual spreadies (#5 is one of them), although not so's you'd really notice. Fixed a coupla bugs, made a bit more user-friendly (hopefully).

 

I'm hoping to get some more Excel versions of the Google ones available here, and maybe some for use with OpenOffice & MS Works later, and a "comparative" one that shows simple & compounded interest at several different rates for instant comparison. Watch this space, as they say !!

 

Cheers !

[Stornoway]

Bill

 

I have created a MS works spreadsheet that has ability to have refund interest claim at one rate and contractual interest at another rate. Happy to send through if you want it.

 

Cheers

[bill-k]

Bill

 

I have created a MS works spreadsheet that has ability to have refund interest claim at one rate and contractual interest at another rate. Happy to send through if you want it.

 

Cheers

 

Thanks, Bomber. Can I PM you with my e-address? or have you got a file-share facility ?

It sounds pretty good to me, and would save me starting from scratch. I'll have to dig out my Works CD-ROM & re-install it ready.

 

Much appreciated, mate.

[Stornoway]

No worries, PM your address and i'll send through.

[amber_ellie]

The letter sounds good to me. For some of us who have gone past this stage though i.e. received money a few weeks ago and already started Money Claim, I was wondering if we should adapt part of it when sending a copy of the schedule to the Solicitors once Notice of Acknowledgement has been received. Thereby stating something like this or is it not applicable?

 

Lloyds TSB did not respond to my conditional acceptance of their “Goodwill Gesture” of £750-00 as part–settlement of my full claim of £??????.

 

I stated in my letter that I would only accept the sum offered as a part-settlement, with the clear understanding that I would pursue recovery of the remainder, with a County Court claim. As the money is still in my account I assume they have agreed hence I am still pursuing the remainder of the outstanding claim via the courts.

 

I enclose a copy of my schedule sent to the courts.

 

I am willing however to accept the full amount outstanding including interest and court fees up to and including the settlement date from your Clients to conclude this situation as early as possible without a court appearance.

[Mindzai]

The letter sounds good to me. For some of us who have gone past this stage though i.e. received money a few weeks ago and already started Money Claim, I was wondering if we should adapt part of it when sending a copy of the schedule to the Solicitors once Notice of Acknowledgement has been received. Thereby stating something like this or is it not applicable?

 

Lloyds TSB did not respond to my conditional acceptance of their “Goodwill Gesture” of £750-00 as part–settlement of my full claim of £??????.

 

I stated in my letter that I would only accept the sum offered as a part-settlement, with the clear understanding that I would pursue recovery of the remainder, with a County Court claim. As the money is still in my account I assume they have agreed hence I am still pursuing the remainder of the outstanding claim via the courts.

 

I enclose a copy of my schedule sent to the courts.

 

I am willing however to accept the full amount outstanding including interest and court fees up to and including the settlement date from your Clients to conclude this situation as early as possible without a court appearance.

 

I would personally leave out the last paragraph. It seems a bit like showing weakness. They will settle regardless, there's no point letting them know you don't want to go to court.

[bill-k]

...conclude this situation as early as possible without a court appearance.

 

I often echo their own phrase here: "To avoid taking up any more of the courts' valuable time."

 

...the word "valuable" makes them think, I hope !!!

[amber_ellie]

Not so sure they're bothered Bill ! I just hope they don't find a way to stop paying out before it's our turn! :o

[Mindzai]

They won't find a way to stop paying out for the very simple reason that there isn't one. They're in the wrong, nothing they say or do can change that.

[TANZARELLI]

They have been ripping us for years and now its pay back.

[maxine989]

Bill-K , Photoman , Tanz , Micheal Browne

 

Are other banks paying part settlements in the way Lloyds are?

Is this tactic an attempt to reduce interest liability on larger claims?

 

What's interesting about these 'part payments' or 'gestures of good will' is that they are suddenly credited to our accounts without signing anything... and usually are done so after they have been hit with the LBA showing the contractual interest schedule of charges (in my case anyway).

 

I have had similar things happen this week with Egg and Barclaycard (suddenly crediting my account with odd lesser amounts after they have received an updated LBA from me showing contractual interest). To me it seems that they have seen that I am prepared to go the whole hog and sqeeze masses of interest out of them... then suddenly they cough a little up, hoping you go away.

 

Surely this shows that they know they will be forced to pay the contractual amount if it gets to the court stage... If they thought we hadn't got a chance and was being cheeky in claiming this contractual interest then they wouldn't suddenly cough a little dosh up to keep you sweet. The banks/card companies are hoping that by giving you this 'goodwill gesture' you will go away and cease to proceed with your larger claim.

 

They probably know that some people will find it difficult or think it is too much trouble to alter their claim accordingly and give up. So it seems that this is yet another under-hand tacick to put us off claiming the whole lot.

 

Exuse any bad spelling... am rushing... got to go and get the baby from upstairs..

 

Maxine

[maxine989]

This is the letter I sent to Lloyds TSb regarding the 'goodwill gesture' situation:...

 

Lloyds TSB

Customer Service Centre

Dept.95-11

Box 5

BX1 1LT

 

27th January 2007

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: ********

SORT CODE: **-**-**

 

Further to my Letter Before Action, dated 6th January 2007.

 

I am very disappointed that you have not offered me a settlement for the full amount of bank charges that you have unlawfully taken from my account over the past 5 years.

 

I will accept your 'Goodwill Gesture' of £750-00 which you credited to my account on the 16th of January as part–settlement of my full claim of £1,898.79.

 

Please could you send me a detailed breakdown of how you have arrived at the £750-00 payment within 7 days, or I will apportion the part-settlement against my claim as I see fit.

 

I trust this clarifies my position.

 

 

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

 

 

 

maxine989

[Pondfish]

Hi Maxine,

 

i see you found our little discussion on these payments:D

 

Being hugely cynical with regards to our friends in the Banks, i wanted to be sure i responed to the payment i also recieved in the correct way, so that i left no avenues for them to contest if i should get as far as court.

 

In my case i opted for the simple interest route (wish i'd spent a little more time trying to understand how to apply the contractual now though:o )

Still my point is that i think the majority of people claiming are not going down the contractual route and are recieving these "Goodwill Gestures " right on the time limit imposed in the LBA. In this scenario no interest has been claimed up to this point. I think the tactic (which IMO it definately is) is to stall, create confusion, add another hurdle to jump, and possiblly to open up some sort of avenue to add to a defence in court. If the GOGW payment is recieved prior to the claiment submitting a claim with MCOL / N1 then this payment has to be deducted from the overall claim which as you pointed out mitigates the amount of interest they have to cough up. All this assumes the part payment is accepted as a part-settlement.

After discussions on this site the advice (see Vamp #89 onwards) would be only to accept these payments only if you have offered the banks a chance to withdraw the payment (suggest within 7 days) or accept your conditional acceptance. Let them know that you will deduct the payment as you see fit if they do not withdraw it, and ask them to supply a breakdown of how it relates to the charges. This gives the banks the oportunity to withdraw it or accept the conditions you apply. The court will see you have acted fairly with regard to the payment

 

i have sent a letter to this effect and i'll see if they withdraw the payment or accept my conditions. To be honest, I don't really expect any response at all.

My original idea was to get the spreadsheets modified to cope with these payments, but it has been shown not to be necessary. My hope now is that the Letter Of Rejection Template is modified to include an optional (red text) response to these payments for people who are still in the early stages of their claim, and maybe not so clued up on what to do.

 

Surely this is the best response to minimise the effects of this tactic on claims?

What about it? do any Mods out there agree?

 

 

Pondfish

[Pondfish]

Sorry maxine took so long to reply missed your Letter of Rejection.

 

See you covered most bases, but i sent another to cover all Vamps recommendations just to be on the safe side;)

 

PS you mightwant to edit out your full name?

[maxine989]

Sorry maxine took so long to reply missed your Letter of Rejection.

 

See you covered most bases, but i sent another to cover all Vamps recommendations just to be on the safe side;)

 

PS you mightwant to edit out your full name?

 

Thanks Pondfish... didn't think. I have edited my name.

 

Yes I am enjoying this little debate you have been having. I began another thread about this subject a few days ago, but have left a post on that one that says I am continuing to join the debate on this thread instead... so that all the info/comments are in one place for everyone to see and use for their own claim.

 

You are dead right it what you say in your previous post. It is obviously a NEW tactic to put people off. I will let 7 days pass (after my letter of the 26th) before filing my claim with the court... just to be on the safe side.

 

I am not going to alter the charges & interest on the spready but am merely going to add the credit at the bottome of the spreadsheet and alter the grand total accordingly. I am willing to take the chance of them disputing my calculations in court. I have nothing to lose. And... from the behaviour of other companies (what with all these sudden GOGW), such as Egg and Barclaycard... they are almost admitting that we have a good case.

 

Maxine

[Pondfish]

Sounds like you've got it covered Maxine

Good to hear from you again, you gave me some advice and encouragement when i first started my claim:)

Good luck with your claim, and let us know if you get a response to that letter!

 

Pondfish

[maxine989]

Thanks Pondfish

 

Its amazing how fast one learns on this site isn't it?... you certainly have got some good/interesting views on this caboodle.

 

I will certainly let you know if I get a response from the letter regarding the GOGW credit, but I will be very surprised if I do.

 

I've got so many different claims on the go... much the same as many others. It's almost a full time job keeping up to scratch with everything.

 

It is really interesting to see how the banks/card companies begin to change their tactics according to the actions of the masses.

 

The issue of bank charges has been featured on a few programmes on TV now, and in many published articles too. The amount of people beginning to claim is speedily increasing daily... I can only imagine that the bank and card companies are struggling to keep up with all the correspondence and claims being made.

 

In a way this aids us, as they are missing things left right and centre. For instance... my two NatWest claims... one was acknowledged by Cobbetts and the other completely missed. I ended up winning on the 2nd account claim (with contractual interest) by default... yet the one they acknowledged was three grand less than the one I won becasue they didn't acknowledge. Both claims were filed on the same day. Madness!!

 

It's a sign that they are becomming overloaded with claims... and can't keep complete track of everything.

 

So... go for that contractual amount and zip it in while they are struggling to cope.

 

And as for these GOGWs... in my opinion it is just another tactic to throw you, make life difficult or make you give up.

 

Maxine

[bram stoker]

Update to my previous advice...

A receipt of payment from the defendant in respect of your claim.

Does the payment have conditions attached?

No? – Spend it as you wish and continue as detailed in “B” below.

Yes? - Do not spend it until you have done “A” below, then continue to “B”.

A

If you receive money direct into your account or by cheque, write to your bank explaining that you will accept the money as a part-settlement of your claim only, without the attached conditions that they have stated, and that you will continue your claim for the full amount until you have written confirmation from them that they agree to your acceptance under these terms, at which time you will continue your claim for the balance.

 

When writing, request a detailed breakdown of how they have arrived at the figure they have offered.

Do not spend the money as your own, or reduce your claim until you have written confirmation of the above.

B

If you have received a breakdown of the amount the defendant has paid to you, you should compare their schedule to your own and continue to claim any overdue amounts that they have omitted.

 

If you do not receive a breakdown, you have to treat the payment as a gesture of goodwill payment and allocate the part-settlement figure as you see fit - this includes your duty to mitigate any losses.

 

If you have claimed simple interest, you can add a line onto your current spreadsheet as a negative figure using the date you received the part-settlement. This will calculate negative interest. The new totals will be the balance you are claiming. This works due to the nature of simple interest.

 

If you have claimed compounded interest you need to allocate any part-settlement to the oldest charges and interest first to take into account mitigating losses.

[rustyboxx]

Perhaps the letter I received from Lloyds this week in response to my part-settlement letter might clarify a few points raised in this thread. I have to add that I didn't ask them to repond but merely clarified my position in my letter to them.

 

 

Dear rustyboxx

 

Thank you for your letter dated ####. I am sorry that you have not been happy with our respose to date.

 

Unfortunately there is little I am able to add to our letter dated #### (GoGW letter) as we have outlined the bank's position on the points you have raised.

 

I am aware that you have accepted our offer conditionally. This is a gesture of goodwill and does not affect your right to take further action. Please be advised that the amount you have been offered is the maximum we are able to award.

 

If you decide to take further action, (I told them I would continue with the claim) and are successful in your claim, this figure would be deducted from any award that would be made. Beyond these circumstances, we will not be making any attempt to reclaim this money.

 

Thank you once again for taking the time to raise your concerns with us.

 

 

I think that makes it pretty clear, no complicated ways to deduct the GoGW from the full claim value.

[Mgreen17]

Hi,

I may have missed something here but.....

. Can I not just do nothing in regards Lloyds GOGW?

Relying on the fact that they will back out before the court date and then just agree to knock £750 off the settlement they offer?

. When I spoke to them on the phone I told them not to deposit the money in my account as I did not accept it as payment of any type - they said they would just do it anyway and 2 days later it was there.

The way I see it after reading the letter 10 times is that this money is a GOGW - and not necessarily anything to do with the fact that I am claiming.

On this basis I don’t understand why I need to adjust my MCOL??

. If I do have to adjust my claim can I not just knock £750 of the total I arrived at using the interest calc?

. Finally if I am wrong about the above (and I take it there is a good chance of that!) am I making a big error and leaving myself open if I do not adjust my claim??

Cheers for any help – there are loads of people out there at a similar stage so I hope this is all of use to more people than me.

[bill-k]

Hi,

 

I may have missed something here but.....

 

. Can I not just do nothing in regards Lloyds GOGW?

Relying on the fact that they will back out before the court date and then just agree to knock £750 off the settlement they offer?

I don't think it is wise to rely on this as a fact - only as a likelihood. It is better to assume that they will defend all the way, and do what you would have done if that were a fact, IMHO.

. When I spoke to them on the phone I told them not to deposit the money in my account as I did not accept it as payment of any type - they said they would just do it anyway and 2 days later it was there.

The way I see it after reading the letter 10 times is that this money is a GOGW - and not necessarily anything to do with the fact that I am claiming.

It is better to do whatever you can now, in order to make it quite clear to the court exactly how you do see it, methinks.

On this basis I don’t understand why I need to adjust my MCOL??

Don't adjust the claim, but inform the court of the "recently received GOGW payment, which may or may not have any bearing on this matter."

. If I do have to adjust my claim can I not just knock £750 of the total I arrived at using the interest calc?

Yes.

. Finally if I am wrong about the above (and I take it there is a good chance of that!) am I making a big error and leaving myself open if I do not adjust my claim??

Possibly - don't leave it to hindsight !!

Cheers for any help – there are loads of people out there at a similar stage so I hope this is all of use to more people than me.

Hope so, too !!

[photoman]

Okay, reading through some of the posts, and some thoughts.

 

We started this thread mainly to resolve an issue about how to deal with GOGW's with regards to then working out the balance.

How to accept or reject them, formally and properly, so as to leave no doubt as to the terms of our acceptance has been dealt with elsewhere, so if it is taken that we do then deal with them properly, we do also then need to determine how to actually allocate them against recalculating the balance.

This is particularly important when in regards recalculating the continued daily interest for the ongoing claim.

Unless the payment is given and completely unrelated to your claim (ie a gift from the Bank........which I doubt they are in the habit of doing), you cannot simply keep the daily interest running at the same level it was (ie calculated on the whole balance), and then simply take it off the figure as it stands on settlement date.

If I recall, we also then had some debate about whether such payments should be then be allocated against clearing the earliest penalties claimed (ie, those continuing to accrue the greatest interest), or against the latest, or just simply against the balance as a whole.

I think the conscensus was that it should be simply taken off the balance as a whole, by being entered as a payment against account. I believe the spreadsheets can cope with this, by entering the GOGW as a negative figure at the end of the columns along with the date of this payment. This way it will account for the input and recalibrate itself to allow for this when working out the new daily interest figure upto final settlement.

Is this a fair method and proper manner to deal with them?