GXS/Trace DCA 2*ANPR PCNs - appeals refused - Lady Bee Marina, Shoreham Port

[Nicky Boy]

Just for interest...

Extract from IPC Code of Practice

29 Byelaws
29.1 Operators should establish whether any land upon which they operate is subject to any relevant Byelaws.
29.2 Where land is subject to Byelaws Operators must ensure that their practices are in accordance with them or, alternatively, that they operate a scheme that is not prohibited by them.

 

Extract from SHOREHAM PORT AUTHORITY BYELAWS

18. Vehicles, directions of Harbour Master
A person having charge of a vehicle within harbour limits shall at all times comply with any directions of the Harbour Master with respect to moving, loading, discharging, manoeuvering, waiting and parking and shall not, without the written permission of the Harbour Master, leave the vehicle unattended anywhere within the harbour premises for a period exceeding 24 hours.

 

So, without directions (signage) from the Harbour Master, there are no restrictions on parking... Other than

 

16. Operation of vehicles
No person shall drive or operate a vehicle on the harbour premises without complying with all the statutory requirements that are applicable on public roads.

And, as parking on public roads is allowed...

[FTMDave]

Great detective work NB.

[Nicky Boy]

DX put up the byelaws earlier. He's a detective too!

[dx100uk]

we know this carpark very well

Programmable Search Engine (google.com)

Clickme^^

[lookinforinfo]

Under PoFA any land covered by Byelaws is not considered relevant land and so GSX cannot transfer the charge from the driver to the keeper..

i would complain to Trading standards. But as GSX are also in breach of their IPC code of conduct there should be a complaint to the IPC and of course to the DVLA since GSX are in breach of their KADOE agreement. 

[honeybee13]

LFI, you can only contact Trading Standards via the CAB these days.

HB

[lookinforinfo]

Thank you HB-I didn't know that.

I checked the local trading standards info-

t: Citizens Advice consumer helpline on 00808 2231133
e: [email protected]
w: West Sussex County Council Trading Standards website
 

[Whirlwind79]

Hi, Thank you all for your help so far.

 I've had limited time to progress this, between work and caring responsibilities...

I've started a draft to the Shoreham Port Chief Exec - assuming this the best person to address to?

Planning to deliver by hand.

However, I'm not clear what I'm asking from the landowner and on what basis for a realistic outcome (i.e. ask GSX to cancel charges or ask GSX to enable me to pay reduced rate £60x2)  -. Guidance on wording would be appreciated.

GXS said in appeal response that signage 'meets industry standards' so I'm not sure if this point can be reasonably used? Looks like there isn't a requirement to have signage at the entry to the area. 

Byelaws - Do I include something about this in letter? 

I've attached a draft for your consideration. Thanks. 

Parking Shoreham Port Authority FINAL.pdf

Subject Access Request is next on my list. 

Do you have a template you could share for the wording I need to use on that please? 

Thanks. 

[dx100uk]

please dont use docx...all your details are in file/info/properties.

converted to pdf now.

hit SAR and read

why not simply write to him asking the direct question...

are GXS enforcing your byelaws under the issuance of their parking change notices at xxx and where under in law and in your byelaws does it state you are permitted to allow a 3rd party company under such a contract with you to do such.

dx

 

[FTMDave]

36 minutes ago, Whirlwind79 said:

GXS said in appeal response that signage 'meets industry standards' so I'm not sure if this point can be reasonably used?

They are liars. 

I had a 6-hour train journey yesterday and used some of the time to look through their trade association's new Code of Practice.  This stood out

Signs must be readable and understandable at all times, including during the hours of darkness or at dusk, if and when parking enforcement activity takes place at those times.

38 minutes ago, Whirlwind79 said:

However, I'm not clear what I'm asking from the landowner and on what basis for a realistic outcome (i.e. ask GSX to cancel charges or ask GSX to enable me to pay reduced rate £60x2)

You want both invoices completely cancelled.

Your first, second and last paragraphs are excellent.  The others about GXS not respecting their own appeals procedure are neither here nor there - cut them out.  No way should you say you tried to pay, that seems like you accept you owe the money.  Mr Willis's job is very simple - to tell GXS to cancel both tickets.

[FTMDave]

How about something much shorter and to the point?

Mr Tom Willis
Chief Executive
Shoreham Port
Nautilus House
90-100 Albion Street
Southwick
Brighton
BN42 4ED
United Kingdom

Dear Mr Willis,

I am writing to complain about poor customer service practice by GXS Services Ltd which I believe is leading to unfair outcomes for users of Shoreham Port Authority facilities.

I’m a local resident who signed up for an evening class within a Shoreham Port Building ‘The Hut’.

I received 2 ‘Parking Charge’ letters from GXS at Shoreham Port, Lady Bee Marina, after attending the class on 2 evenings on consecutive weeks.

I appealed both PCN’s with the reason ‘unclear signage’. The area was not well lit and the peripheries dark and shadowy with vans parked.

As a woman on my own in that area, it did not feel safe there, the risk of sexual violence was at the forefront of my mind due to recent cases in the media and getting safely to the building was the priority.

It was dark on both occasions, there is no GXS signage as you enter the area from the highway, no clear ‘camera logo’ to indicate it’s ANPR or GXS, like you see in supermarkets etc.

I was not aware I was entering into a ‘contract’ with GXS and believed I was authorised to park there as I was attending the evening class within Shoreham Port.

I appealed both Parking charges using the GXS digital portal, as per GXS guidance on the back of each of the original Parking charge letter.

No outcome of appeal communication was received from GXS and I contacted them several times via phone and email to inform them of this.

I have never received a reply and instead GXS have involved debt collection agencies and are now demanding £170 per invoice even though that is expressly forbidden by law.

This situation is extremely stressful and I have had many sleepless nights and extreme worry about being pursued for £340, an awful lot of money. I feel exasperated at the unsatisfactory response from GXS.

I have now spent several days of my own time repeatedly trying to engage
with them to reasonably resolve this matter, which they are unwilling to do.

GXS's trade association's Code of Practice is extremely clear - "Signs must be readable and understandable at all times, including during the hours of darkness or at dusk, if and when parking enforcement activity takes place at those times" but they are obviously only interested in entrapping motorists, not in professionally managing a car park.

I also note that the port is subject to statutory control, namely bye-laws, and the proper procedure if anyone commits a traffic violation is prosecution in a Magistrates' Court with a fine paid to the state.  The proper procedure is not enrichment of a cowboy private parking company.

I am therefore writing to request that you instruct GXS to cancel both invoices.

Yours, XXXXX

[lookinforinfo]

Dave you do realise that Whirlwind has not broken any Bye Laws at Shoreham and Mr Willis may well have wanted GXS there because that can provide cash to help run the marina. Something the Bye Laws cannot do since as you know , any money raised from motorists goes to the Treasury 

Whichever letter Whirlwind sends it should include the fact that the presence of Bye laws means that the Protection of Freedoms Act cannot be invoked on the marina.

On both their PCNs, GXS have threatened using PoFA 2012 which is unlawful and a complaint is also heading to the DVLA and the ICO about their breaching of that Law while they are acting as agents for the marina.

That will not look good in the local papers either as I expect any motorists who have already paid GXS for breaches in the marina may have to have their payments refunded.

[FTMDave]

20 hours ago, Whirlwind79 said:

I've had limited time to progress this, between work and caring responsibilities...

Understood.

But you really need to move on this.  You should really have contacted the port authority in October, instead of wasting your energy on the very spivs who set up the signs so as to entrap motorists.

Not that that was your fault.

[dx100uk]

21 hours ago, dx100uk said:

why not simply write to him asking the direct question...

are GXS enforcing your byelaws under the issuance of their parking change notices at xxx

Can you please explicitly make it clear where under any relevant laws and in your byelaws, does it state you are permitted to allow a 3rd party company under such a contract with you to enforce said byelaws?

dx

 

revised questions above.....

sorry guys, but i dont think we should be tipping him off over anything at present other than getting an answer to the above direct simple questions?

 

[Whirlwind79]

Letter printed and ready to delivery to Shoreham Port Chief Exec, thanks @FTMDave I used your revised wording.

Shoreham Port landowner Letter.pdf

[Whirlwind79]

@FTMDave I just read your last post. Before I deliver letter, are you suggesting to cut it further or is what I attached suitable? 

[FTMDave]

No it's fine. 

Another version appeared because dx split into paragraphs for easier reading, but the content is the same.

[FTMDave]

Just read your PDF.  It's excellent.  Go for it.  Good luck!