Fit for work certificates

[shoeshopper]

I work in a school (non teaching) tues - Fri, term time only. I saw my GP on the Weds before half term (7/2) and was advised to take the rest of the week off and if I was not well enough to return after half term to go back for a fit note. I went back after half term (20/2) and the GP said that the first 7 days of the absence (7-13/2) should be self certificated and that he would issue a fit note from 13/2 until next week. However the school policy says that any absence on the last day before a school holiday (9/2) with no return after the holiday (19/2) needs a fit note starting on the last day before the school hols (9/2). My fit note now has a gap from 9-12/2. The GP is adamant that he is correct and in line with government/NHS guidelines, but the school are not in agreement. I am now stuck in the middle. Please advise if possible.

[whitelist]

As far as I am aware, although a fit note is guidance for an employer, that employer will be ill advised to ignore. Just like the ACAS code of practice, an employment tribunal will treat it as law. 

An employer can ignore a Fit note but will need secondary confirmation from a health care professional such as occupational health.

As a Fit note is a legal document, companies own contractual terms and conditions (policy) with attendance cannot take precedence.

It looks to me your GP is bang on with self certification then fit note.

They will be asking for trouble if they go down a disciplinary absence procedure or deduct any contractual salary.

Wait for more replies though.

Edited February 20 by whitelist

[Bazooka Boo]

Agreed, your GP is correct.

You can self certify the first seven days sick.

Quote

Self-certification

If employees are off work for 7 days or less, they do not need to give their employer a fit note or other proof of sickness from a healthcare professional.

When they return to work, their employer can ask them to confirm they’ve been off sick. This is called ‘self-certification’. The employer and employee will agree on how the employee should do this. They might need to fill in a form or send details of their sick leave by email.

https://www.gov.uk/taking-sick-leave

[Emmzzi]

Hello,

the school can require additional documentation but there would usually be a fee for this from the doctor. Have you asked if it is available for a fee?

I am assuming they do not wish to pay discretionary sick pay if you do not have the documentation?

E

See also

The fit note: guidance for patients and employees - GOV.UK

WWW.GOV.UK

"2.2 You will not have to pay for a fit note if you have been ill for more than 7 calendar days, including weekends and bank holidays. If your employer requires medical evidence for the first 7 days of sickness absence, the healthcare professional may charge a fee, and this cost should be covered by the employer."

 

[shoeshopper]

I sent an email to my employer explaining the situation re the fit note and asked them what I should do next. I have not received a Reply regarding this issue, but I have received a call from HR asking me how I am and then telling me that when I do return I have a meeting regarding a grievance someone has raised about me (apparently before half term)  but they can’t give me any further information until I attend the meeting.

 

[Emmzzi]

So, don't worry about the fit note until they reply; and do ask for a copy of the grievance policy so you are prepared. I assume it's an investigation meeting, so it would be normal not to know the topic in advance, and there is no right to be accompanied.

[Xerzes]

I had exactly the same issue last year. What happened with me is only an anecdote, so it might legally be different with another employer.

First of all, ask to see a copy of your staff handbook - see if there's any specific info relating to illness absence.

Other posters are totally correct - I had to "self-certify for the 1st THREE days", and only after that would my GP issue a fit note. And I was only paid SSP (Statutory Sick Pay) in the payslips which followed from the 4th day when my GP's fit note kicked in, until the allotted end of fit note.

At which point, my company said I must have a "return to work" meeting - even though I was only off for 9 working days in total. I think that's probably a standard across the board employment law thing, due to them having a duty-of-care.

In all my sorrowful years working for many different companies, I've never met ANYONE who has anything good to say about HR who doesn't work in HR. Remember - despite their title, they are NOT there to help you or be your ally, their sole preserve is to cover the arses of higher management and protect the business' interests. Period. Anyone who tells you different is setting you up for a big disappointment!

In regards to attending an official grievance meeting - it's always been my understanding you ARE allowed to attend with a Union Rep, or a nominated colleague, who must not speak but simply listen and provide emotional support. However, I've only been to around 4 in my career (always as colleague, I might add!!) So I'm willing to be corrected on the letter of the law on this if I'm mistaken.

Best wishes for a speedy recovery - your health is more important than an uncaring machine who will expect absolute unquestioning loyalty, yet drop you like dog poo as soon as they don't need you anymore. One way traffic, I'm afraid!

 

[Emmzzi]

4 minutes ago, Xerzes said:

In regards to attending an official grievance meeting - it's always been my understanding you ARE allowed to attend with a Union Rep, or a nominated colleague, who must not speak but simply listen and provide emotional support. However, I've only been to around 4 in my career (always as colleague, I might add!!) So I'm willing to be corrected on the letter of the law on this if I'm mistaken.

 

 

If it turns into a matter under the conduct, safeguarding or performance policies, at that point, there is a right to be accompanied; but not for an initial fact find. Might be a load of something and nothing that just needs a chat to clear up.

Also I have 20 years HR experience and am minded not to post again, so thanks for your views!

Edited February 21 by Emmzzi

[Xerzes]

Just now, Emmzzi said:

If it turns into a matter under the conduct, safeguarding or performance policies, at that point, there is a right to be accompanied; but not for an initial fact find. Might be a load of something and nothing that just needs a chat to clear up.

I stand corrected. 

[Xerzes]

@Emmzzi - my comment wasn't aimed at you personally, I'm new to the site and have no idea what your job is.

However, I'm afraid I stand by comment based on years of my, and colleagues, interactions with HR.

Have a quick general google and see if I'm mistaken in my presumption!

Perhaps you are one of the few good 'uns!

In which case, more power to ya! 

 

[Ethel Street]

@shoeshopper  are you in a union?  If so have you asked them for advice both on the fit note issue and on the grievance?

Get hold of the school's Grievance policy asap and see what it says about being accompanied at grievance hearings. 

[Nicky Boy]

Just want to point out that Emmzzi is correct. She is expressing the "legal" rights for accompaniment.

However, some company policies allow accompaniment throughout any possible disciplinary scenarios.

So, it depends on the employer and their policy.

[shoeshopper]

Thank you all for the advice.

I am allowed someone to accompany me, and my Union has now been contacted.

 

Edited February 21 by shoeshopper

[honeybee13]

Well done for taking control. Please let us know how it goes.

HB

[shoeshopper]

The fit note issue seems to have just disappeared.

However, the grievance meeting is going ahead even though I am off work still unwell with stress, along with a viral infection and conjunctivitis. Even though the grievance policy says all grievances should be dealt with informally in the first instance,  HR has said that the ‘aggrieved’ has decided not to do that. So, the meeting will take place in the next 5 days with myself remoting in via zoom. All I know about the grievance is that apparently I raised my voice at someone. I do remember an incident which was over the telephone but I’m not sure if that has been specified or not. I have no further information, and following advice from my union rep I went on to my work emails to locate some info for the meeting, but It appears that all emails referring to the circumstances that led up to this ‘incident’ (conversation) have seemingly been deleted.