EPC UK Debt Collector - Unpaid Toll Fees in Portugal

[Nicky Boy]

I forgot this was a hire car, but I think there are other victims who were the RK's.

 

From gov.uk...

You can ask for details of another vehicle’s registered keeper. You’ll need a ‘reasonable cause’,

 

Request information about a vehicle or its registered keeper from DVLA - GOV.UK

WWW.GOV.UK

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Request details about a vehicle's registered keeper: bulk data, anonymised data, mileage data requests, other information requests

But are you allowed to request the RK information for infractions abroad? Just doesn't sound right to me...

[WenDeeDoll]

Hi Nick

I am so sorry if I am sounding stupid but all this is way above my head. So, do mind me asking if, your comment 'you can ask for details of another vehicle’s registered keeper' applies to hired cars abroad?

Thanks again!

[Nicky Boy]

No Doll,

The point I'm trying to get opinion on, is the legality of using the DVLA to obtain keeper information in relation to incidents in a foreign country.

We have other caggers who have received demands from EPC for their own cars.

Was your car hired in the UK?

[WenDeeDoll]

Thanks Nick, any car we drive abroad is hired in the country we are visiting.

Thank you Dave, always appreciate your sound advice!

[Ethel Street]

2 hours ago, Nicky Boy said:

The point I'm trying to get opinion on, is the legality of using the DVLA to obtain keeper information in relation to incidents in a foreign country.

We have other caggers who have received demands from EPC for their own cars.

I saw something recently Nicky that said that a group of people who had been chased  by EPC were taking legal action against them on precisely these grounds, that EPC had no legal right to obtain RK information from DVLA in respect of a non-payment of a foreign charge. Unfortunately I was travelling at the time and didn't take note of where I saw it and now can't find it again.  I'll keep an eye open for it, I'm not sure whether any real action was being taken or whether it was all a bit speculative.

I suspect any legal action would not be straightforward as neither the relevant legislation [here]  nor DVLA guidance [here] make any specific reference to whether "reasonable cause" is restricted to events occurring in the UK.

[dx100uk]

the hire co. didn't charge you any handling fees for passing on your hire details for the  pcn's have they?

 

[WenDeeDoll]

Not that we are aware of dx100uk.

And, as you can hopefully see, I have attached the car hire company Car Hire Conditions if that helps

Zit Car Hire Conditions.pdf

 I believe by CLELR, on 28 October, you say "a dca unless they OWN a debt cant do court (and gov't debts are NEVER sold)." which is good to hear.

However, just wondering if EPC are likely to have bought the debt from the Portugues car rental company, and not the gov't?

Also, just read on another forum that one of the owners of EPC is English and the other Portuguese and wondering too if this could be significant?

[Ethel Street]

I don't believe these alleged debts are direct from the Portuguese government or the car hire company, but from one of the private companies that manage Portuguese toll motorways on behalf of the Portuguese government, in your case VIALIVRE SA A22. Your details will have been given to VIALIVRE by the car hire company. I don't know about Portuguese law but typically car hire companies are not liable for unpaid tolls etc if they identify who the hirer was at the time.

EPC post this document on their website as their authority to act for VIALIVRE SA.  According to it EPC aren't the debt owner but have power of attorney from VIALIVRE to bring court claims in VIALIVRE's name. I'm not aware of any cases where EPC have actually done so but that doesn't mean there haven't been any.

1823408.pdf (epcplc.com)

You are correct that EPC [Euro Parking Collection PLC] is a British company  registered at Companies House and based in London. According to the CH entry it is a subsidiary of a US company so the information about British/Portuguese ownership appears to be incorrect.

[WenDeeDoll]

Thanks Ethel, really appreciate you taking time to respond to me!  As VIALIVRE SA has given POW to EPC, does this in theory equate to EPC being the owner of the debt and as such gives EPC the power to take court action against UK citizens in the UK in VIALIVRE's name?

[Ethel Street]

5 hours ago, WenDeeDoll said:

As VIALIVRE SA has given POW to EPC, does this in theory equate to EPC being the owner of the debt and as such gives EPC the power to take court action against UK citizens in the UK in VIALIVRE's name?

 

It doesn't give EPC the power to bring a court claim in their own name because they don't own the debt, the debt is still owned by VIALIVRE.  But it does authorise them to bring a court claim in VIALIVRE's name, as VIALIVRE's agent if you like.

[EDIT] Meant to add, EPC also face the difficulty that as far as I can see no-one has ever asked you to pay these 2018 fees prior to EPC's letters in 2023.

[dx100uk]

and they'd have to issue a letter of claim FIRST too.

there are no cases of EPC doing court on any of the types of 'debt' they ever chase.

there are though numerous reports that people that have blindly paid EPC and latterly contacted the original 'ticket issuer' have found not one penny of the 'fine' made it to the issuing authority.......

IGNORE!

dx

 

[WenDeeDoll]

Thank you so much guys! You guys are the Best of the Best! x