Wise Parking PCN - Appealed -University Hospital Lewisham

[Siu]

On 26 Oct I received a letter from Trace Debt Recovery on behalf of Wise Parking to collect parking charge, said I ignored 19 Sept Parking Charge Notice letter from Wise Parking so now have to settle charge and penalty of £150, but no relevant parking information was provided.

I first contacted Trace Debt Recovery but they rejected any communication just said I must pay £150 anyway.

I then contacted Wise Parking to explain I never received that 19 Sept letter, don't know which parking it's regarding to, and should not deserve a penalty for a parking charge I never been noticed.

Wise Parking provided postage cert from courier Unity 5 and that 19 Sept letter showing my parking in University Hospital Lewisham, I said willing to settle charge £40 as on the 19 Sept letter, but they said as far they have posted the letter, are not responsible for the postal service, I have to pay £150 now as I didn't pay £40.

In fact that Unity 5 postage cert at most can serve as a sending proof of the 19 Sept letter, but there is no tracking number and no delivery confirmation (Usually courier should provide this either in form of sign receipt or parcel delivered photo) - Wise Parking has no proof that letter ever reach me. How can they just said I ignore their letter and raise penalty?

Wise Parking never tried to further notice or contact me when not received that £40, but keen to pass Trace debt recovery to raise penalty for over 300% from £40 to £150, for a letter we never received, it's unreasonable, they even threaten would take me court if I don't pay £150. Therefore I just can pay that.

If you agree that £150 penalty is unreasonable, can I get back money? Any organisation can help me?

Even I cannot get back £150, I am eagerly seeking your advice on how I should have dealt with this, the penalty £150 has never been stated on 19 Sept Parking Charge Notice letter, they just raise penalty to whatever amount they like by blaming I ignore their letter - it's possible in future someone just state the penalty as £1500, then I still just can pay or being taken to court? 

[dx100uk]

not sure where you read all that rubbish ...

its not a penalty.

and a dca is not a bailiff

stop ringing thrm

its speculative invoice.

who says you ever need to pay anything on private land

please complete this:

 

.

[Nicky Boy]

Have you moved at all without updating your V5c car logbook?

Could be why you've not received the original paperwork.

Trace Debt Recovery may have found your current address by other means... (Clue is in the name...  Trace Debt Recovery)

[Siu]

No I didn't move house, Wise Parking is IPC member so they can search my address through DVLA as they got my vehicle registration number 

When they provide me that 19 Sept letter, the address is correct, same as on Trace Debt Recovery letter

Thanks for providing me other cases link, worth reference as all are regarding to Wise Parking PCN at University Hospital Lewisham. 

But those victims posted at your forum within the 28 days receiving PCN letter, and filled in your form with PCN information

But I lost appeal chance to paymypcn.info as didn't received Wise Parking PCN letter, now 28 days appeal period from PCN issue date has passed. I tried appeal to theias.org, but they cannot find the PCN's in their database. It seems I have no chance to cancel the PCN 

Now I just want to know if complaint to any organisation can have chance to cancel that £150 charged by Trace Debt Recovery. Will University Hospital Lewisham or NHS CEO still accept my complaint like other cases? 

I am not sure in such case should I still fill in your form with Wise Parking PCN information, £40 letter? Or with Trace Debt Recovery letter information, £150 letter? 

Thanks for telling me I should not pay Trace Debt Recovery charge of £150, but how can I reject to pay?

Do you mean neither Trace Debt Recovery nor Wise Parking can take me to court? 

Or you mean I can win if fight at court? 

 

 

2023-09-19 Wise PCN-NTK + TDR letter.pdf

[FTMDave]

Thank you for uploading everything.  I'll try to answer your questions.

Please realise that you are not dealing with honest companies.  Even a government minister referred to the private parking companies as "ripping off" motorists.

We know Wise Parking well.

So they reckon you didn't pay for your whole period of 2:23 hours.

We've never seen this "Unity 5" rubbish before, but anyway, the nonsense they've sent is not proper proof of posting from the post office.

Increasing the invoice from £40 to £80 for late payment is lawful, but increasing it to £150 is not lawful.  But these people are dishonest and hope you don't know the law and will pay.

There are two bits of good news.  Firstly, there is not one case on CAG of Wise Parking ever taking a motorist to court.  Secondly, as you have seen there is a good record of getting the hospital authorities to intervene and get these invoices cancelled.

So, next question.  Can you explain why Wise Parking reckon you did something wrong?  Did you pay for less than 2:23 hours?

[Siu]

I was parked in the parking area of University Lewisham hospital on 15-9-2023 (the parking position had not changed), and the parking time did not exceed 2 hours.  I paid for 2 hours of parking on the same day using PayByPhone.

 --------------------

 =I paid the two hour parking fee using my mobile phone:-

 (1.) I look at the indicated Location 

 No.807028, and paid £2.40 (one hour fee) for the first time.

 (2.) The hospital is very large,  I then walked to the Pink Zone.  The next hour was about to end, and the App didn't give me a reminder to add value,  so that I immediately used my phone to add another hour of £2.50.  At that time, I didn’t notice that the Location number on the App changed to 803787 (this may be because I was too far away from the parking location, causing this error!!)

-------------------

 ***Remark:-

 ~(A) I believed PayByPhone’s system considered that I paid less for parking

because of above condition.

 ~(B) I checked my email on the night of 15-9-2023 and saw the above error in the PayByPhone bill.  At that time, I immediately contacted them online on the PayByPhone website page in order to explain my case.But the online customer service staff only gave me some links and did not handle my case. Therefore I decided to provide an explanation when receiving Parking Charge Notice.

[FTMDave]

So you paid for two hours.

But Wise say you stayed for two hours and 23 minutes.

Is this correct?

You have also redacted the photos of the car entering & leaving on the invoice.  Do those timestamped photos show 2:23?

[dx100uk]

just type no need to keep hitting quote @Siu

it makes your replies SSOOO difficult to find.

i have removed all previous post quotes to date.

you still need to do:

 

 

[Siu]

I remember I left in hurry when about to reach 2 hours, fear need to pay for 3 hours, so haven't parked for over 2 hours, but I got no proof for this. 

Wise Parking said my 2nd hour paid to 803787 parking site which belongs to council not them

they don't count my payment for that 2nd hour (Even 803787 is detected by the App not input by myself, I got no option to change that wrong code myself, the App Customer service rejected to help) ,

I didn't pay full so deserve penalty, and anyway I didn't paid £40 so now need to pay £150

[FTMDave]

Once again, Wise say you stayed for 2 hours and 23 minutes.  Is this right - yes or no?

What times of entrance & entry are shown on the photos of you entering & exiting the car park?

[dx100uk]

10 minutes ago, Siu said:

I didn't pay full so deserve penalty, and anyway I didn't paid £40 so now need to pay £150

no you dont..

and its NOT A PENALTY . 

you seem to have some wild unfounded ideas here ...

DR+ did not charge you the extra PENALTY. no such thing ignore them 

get that link done please help @FTMDave out rather than further frustrating you and everyone else with some weird notions you owe ANYTHING.

 

[Siu]

10 hours ago, FTMDave said:

Once again, Wise say you stayed for 2 hours and 23 minutes.  Is this right - yes or no?

What times of entrance & entry are shown on the photos of you entering & exiting the car park?

Entrance photo shows 1502, they count the time I entering Hospital, not the time when I got a place parking. While Exiting photo shows 1725. 

So it's really 2 hours and 23 minutes in such way, I have no chance to cancel that PCN. 

I am willing to pay £40 not £150, but Wise just said I didn't pay full for parking so deserve £40 penalty, and anyway I didn't paid £40 so now need to pay £150 to Trade Debt Recovery.

It's Wise threaten I have to pay £150 immediately or take me court, not I think so or suppose this myself. 

As you all said I should not pay for £150, but how can I get Wise or Trade Debt Recovery to cancel this? Should I contact University Hospital Lewisham or NHS CEO like other case? 

[Nicky Boy]

Yes, definitely contact the hospital.

Upload your letter/email here for comment by the team before you send it.

 

Just to put you right on some of the things you've got in your head...

12 hours ago, FTMDave said:

Please realise that you are not dealing with honest companies.  Even a government minister referred to the private parking companies as "ripping off" motorists.

Parking companies are the lowest of the low.

They don't adhere to the law in many instances, let alone their own codes of practice!

19 minutes ago, Siu said:

I am willing to pay £40 not £150, but Wise just said I didn't pay full for parking so deserve £40 penalty, and anyway I didn't paid £40 so now need to pay £150 to Trade Debt Recovery.

You really should not be willing to pay anything extra, let alone £40!

As for paying their ridiculous made up amount of £150... Poppycock!

Wise will NEVER cancel their stupid invoice!

You would do well to read up on some other threads to understand the type of "businesses" you are dealing with here.

Take a look through some of our success threads here...

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/347084-ppc-successes-no-questions-please/page/16/#comment-5231630

 

[FTMDave]

I'm at work now but will help with a letter to the hospital this evening.

[Siu]

If I write to hospital, I have rethink if can get that £40 PCN to cancel, like other cases:

1.Is it fair to count Entrance before my car really get to parking place? That Hospital carpark has long queue before can really entering carpark and find a parking place, I fibd s place and start parking on about 1530 actually - that's why in my mind I just have parked less than 2 hours as I left on 1725. 

2.If you agreed that my parking should only be counted as 2 hours, then I really have paid for 2 hours, just for 2nd hour the app detected wrong code and put my payment to wrong code, wrong code is not input by me and I have no option to amend the code - should Wise bear the responsibility of such technical error, it's not my fault, Wise should count me paid to whole parking for 2 hours, should cancel £40 PCN

[Nicky Boy]

You still haven't got it...

Wise will NEVER agree to cancel the PCN!

They just want you to pay!

You are making very valid points... things like: Entry and exit times from the car park is NOT a "parking period".

These are all good defence points IF, IF, IF, it ever goes to court.

There are also other points, such as consideration and grace periods to take into account.

You'd be aware of things like this if you'd been reading up on other threads as I suggested.

It would help to clarify a lot of your repeated questions/points and explain how things usually pan out...

 

Please read up!

 

[FTMDave]

Alright, send this off.

Dear Sir/Madam,

Re. PCN no.XXXXX

on 15 September I was at Lewisham hospital for XXXXX.

I found a parking spot at around 15:30 after having to queue for a considerable length of time.  I paid for an hour's parking by PayByPhone.

When it became clear I would be in the hospital for more than an hour, I paid for a further hour.  I then exited the car park at 17:25.  I believed I had done everything correctly.

However, It appears that your agents, Wise Parking Ltd., have not taken into consideration the length of time needed to actually park, and have decided I overstayed.  Even worse, it appears I did not receive an earlier letter from them, and now their charge has mushroomed from £40 to £150.  I have tried to sensibly approach them before contacting you, but they are adamant that I have to pay £150.

Frankly this is ridiculous behaviour towards someone who was not abusing the car park, who had a genuine reason to be at the hospital and who actually paid for their parking.

I would ask you please to intervene with your agents and get the charge cancelled.

Yours, XXXXX

Don't complicate life by mentioning the second hour's payment mistake for the moment.

Send it to PALS at the hospital  https://www.lewishamandgreenwich.nhs.uk/lewisham-hospital-contacts/

And also to the CEO  https://www.lewishamandgreenwich.nhs.uk/download.cfm?ver=5756

[lookinforinfo]

good letter Dave. I would have added that they are trying to charge  Siu £150 instead of the £100 on the signs. This amount has been complained about by Judges and have thrown out cases because of this overcharging.

[Siu]

Oh really?

In what case the Judges said so?

Has anyone also being threatened to pay £150 like me?

Could you please kindly also send me this case to take a look? 

Thanks so much for your kindly help Dave, hope I can success with your letter

[lookinforinfo]

I cannot put my hands on a specific case at the moment. What I will say is that there are  new  regulations coming out soon called the Private Parking Code of Practice  and section 9 states

9. Escalation of costs

The parking operator must not levy additional costs over and above the level of a parking charge or parking tariff as originally issued.

This confirmed by the current legislation which governs the private parking industry -the Protection of freedoms act 2012. In Schedule 4 of the Act section 4 [5] it states

5)The maximum sum which may be recovered from the keeper by virtue of the right conferred by this paragraph is the amount specified in the notice to keeper under paragraph 8(2)(c) or (d) or, as the case may be, 9(2)(d) (less any payments towards the unpaid parking charges which are received after the time so specified).

The amount specified on the PCN is the amount quoted on their signs-usually £100 but can be less.  So £150 does not comply with the Act as many judges have said.

If you read some of the winning cases above in the Stickies you will see members including reasons why the extra amounts cannot be claimed when writing their Witness statements.

[Nicky Boy]

Yes Siu,

I've already pointed you towards our "success" threads.

As LFI hinted at, look at some of the witness statements in those threads.

I'll say again,  start reading! You REALLY need to find out what you're dealing with...

[FTMDave]

LFI, I think the logic of "Wise" (ho! ho!) will be £40 discounted amount, £80 real amount, then add the £70 Unicorn Food Tax their bezzies at their ATA allow to come up with £150.

Siu, get the two mails off this weekend, then see what feedback appears at the start of next week.

 

[lookinforinfo]

I was in Singapore two months ago and was speaking to a Chinese friend of mine and breaching the Law there. She was adamant that regardless of the  loopholes that there may be, the fact that one had breached  those regulations then you were guilty.

it is different here. In order to be liable in the UK for whatever the charge is, if the company/person pursuing you for a breach, they have to get their details  and claims about the breach in order for them to win in Court should it get that far. 

To answer your question above, many people will have or are being pursued for £150 or an even greater number for allegedly breaching some regulation. Some people will pay, others will just ignore them and others try to understand how to counteract the claim..

So it is your decision. You can fight the PCN with a good  chance of not have anything to pay at all or you can decide to pay.

 

 

[FTMDave]

Any reply from PALS and/or the CEO's office?

[Siu]

Thanks for all kind help and advice, still looking forward to hearing from from them, hope can be soon