In-the-process-of-being-summoned-to-court-over-section-40a-of-the-road-traffic-act-1988-uk-for-overloaded-90

[dx100uk]

Hi  

 

This thread is going round in circles and insults 

 

Please return and ask for it to be re-opened when you have a result if you wish 

 

Dx

[Braveheart2009]

authorities are saying axle was only 10% overloaded front of vehicle including engine, large diesel and ad blue tank the driver, tools and rear axle 2 was 90% overloaded? The 2nd picture shows the legal imit they said. 

 

loading pix.pdf

[BazzaS]

I can’t tell how heavy the load is by looking at it (then again, I’m not an HGV driver either)

your options are get it weighed as it is loaded, or check at a weighbridge…..

 

What is preventing the load shifting?

are the prosecuting you for overweight, the load / vehicle posing a risk of injury to others, or both?

Edited February 12, 2023 by BazzaS

[Man in the middle]

51 minutes ago, BazzaS said:

are the prosecuting you for overweight, the load / vehicle posing a risk of injury to others, or both?

 

They are prosecuting under s40a of the RTA (Using vehicle in dangerous condition etc). This previous thread was locked as it was going nowhere:

 

It centred around the potential sentence (the explanations for which, provided both here and elsewhere, were not believed). This will probably end up the same way.

 

Edited February 12, 2023 by Man in the middle

[honeybee13]

Quite so, MitM. The site team are aware of the thread and are monitoring it.

 

HB

[dx100uk]

threads merged temp re opened.......

[borisbeaver]

I used to work for Network Rail, and one of my duties was to weigh the vans before going out using portable weighing equipment.  People forget that the weight limit is gross, so it includes the vehicle itself, the weight of the fuel, the load plus all of the passengers, so a 3.5t Transit van's total weight must not exceed 3.5t when on the road.

[Braveheart2009]

How often are the portable weighing equipment/scales callibrated? 

Edited February 15, 2023 by Braveheart2009

[borisbeaver]

They were tested every 6 months.  They were electroinic devices using weight loading cells, so no moving parts.   The set up comprised of two large pads - still heavy, and the display unit.  The vehicles would be weighed by each axle and the display unit would then calculate the overall gross.  Some police forces use a similar setup where weigh bridges are not an option.

Edited February 15, 2023 by borisbeaver
add more context

[Braveheart2009]

where they ever any issues for the time you worked there? 

[Man in the middle]

 

How will finding out whether there were any issues with any unspecified weighing equipment from an unspecified time in the past help you with your argument?

 

There is a basic tenet in law that any equipment used as a measuring device is presumed to be accurate unless the contrary can be proved. If you are to use faulty equipment as a defence you must prove to the court that the equipment used to weigh your vehicle was faulty on the occasion it was used to weigh it.

 

Simply suggesting that since some other equipment used elsewhere to weigh something else was faulty, then that used to weigh your vehicle may be unreliable, will not cut the mustard. 

[borisbeaver]

My post was about how the max weight of a vehicle was calculated - for clarification purposes.

[Manxman in exile]

Do you have any photos from outside showing how low the van was sitting?

 

Did the police stop you and weigh you because you looked obviously to be overweight or was it random?

[Braveheart2009]

@Man in the middle

 

Because its happen before with various types of police equipment when investigation was done it found software out of date, speed guns uncallibrated for months and years, happens every day thats why hundreds of cases up and down the country get dismissed. 

 

You seem to think the authorities in the country are flawless and technology does not fail.

 

I'm not trying to escape the system rather set an example on what a reasonable person would view.

 

My vehicle was 50% empty but their still calling it overloaded, but their weighbridge, which could be faulty as how can 1 axle be 10% overloaded and other 90% when the stock was virtually level? it should be 90% on each axle or very similar infact axle 1 should be heavier with the engine, diesel ad blue tank, driver weight etc 

 

I passed a refugee centre and the cops had reasonable grounds for suspicion that I was carry illegal immigrants/refugees as i suspect thats what they thought and wanted to inspect the load.

 

They were also searching for drugs, then charged me anyway for a 50% empty van, which the scales showed overloaded. I've weighed some tiles on my own scale and done the calculation i was within the limits and around 5-6 people opinions are of the view the load seemed secure and reasonable. They laughed at their version of legal load 1/5th of the van. 

 

Also, the police visually monitored my vehicle for 10 mins driving, how could they possibly view that as dangerous driving out of 3 hours of driving? Unless I was swerving and hitting other cars or debris were hitting cars, or smoke was blasting out, fuel was leaking causing a hazard. 

 

All these discounts and deals to keep stuff out of court etc are designed for the innocent just to plead guilty and not make the judges work for their money making it a tick box numbers game rather than fairness and justice that happen 100 years ago. 

[BazzaS]

You are 100% entitled to plead not guilty and introduce those arguments.

 

are the 5-6 people going to appear as experts for you?

(Is it 5 or 6? If you can’t count the difference don’t let on to the magistrates, as they might decide it makes it more likely you are also wrong over the weight if you have dyscalculia) 

 

The bench are entitled to agree or disagree with those arguments.

 

Let the site know how you get on.

Edited February 16, 2023 by BazzaS

[Braveheart2009]

6 people. Yes, they will be there. 

 

I will also be questioning the fact why serious overloading cases are not being heard quicker aint they not that serious enough?  

[BazzaS]

They may well agree that they wish such serious cases got heard sooner.

 

However, that doesn’t provide you with a defence provided the first NIP was within time, and the court received the request to summons you with the statutory period (6 months in E&W, 1 year in Scotland).

 

Brave of you though to stress how serious the offence is, at the same time as pleading not guilty. If they then find you guilty it’s almost like saying “yup, fine me towards the top end of the sentencing guidelines, because I’ve reminded you how serious the offence is”!

Edited February 17, 2023 by BazzaS

[Man in the middle]

9 hours ago, Braveheart2009 said:

Also, the police visually monitored my vehicle for 10 mins driving, how could they possibly view that as dangerous driving out of 3 hours of driving?

 

I didn't know you'd been charged with dangerous driving.  First you've mentioned of it.

 

I've tried, but I think I'm out (again).  Do let us know how it goes.

[Braveheart2009]

Been advised on here and elsewhere of prison sentence, community service, £100,000 fines, court appearence in the dock with the traffic commissioner grilling you about what you done,  for being 2.71 ton over 77%. overloaded

They slapped me with 3 points and £245 fine. Main reason I plead guilty was £2000-4000 plus lawyer fees to pay following a failed investigation then court fines ontop of it. Also, didnt have enough paperwork, eye witness, video/audio recordings to defend just my geuine reasons which lawyers/public ridiculed me for apart from 1-2 good friends who defended me. 

Lawyers gave me a very inaccurate picture like it was so serious you could face dangerous driving and case will be esculated to the crown court. oh deary me!, your better defending yourself in court and read some books. 

Reason, I am posting is to calm drivers fears over overloading. The 3 points come off automatically after 3 years from the offence date but they remain on your driving history record between 4-11 years depending on severity. They give you 14 days to pay your fine online. No court appearence they just want your money. 

They took around 6 months to complete everything. 

[BankFodder]

It sounds as if you have been extremely lucky. Overloading is an underestimated serious matter which can cause vehicles to run out of control and cause injury to innocent people.
 

[Man in the middle]

Quote

Been advised on here and elsewhere of prison sentence, community service, £100,000 fines, court appearence in the dock with the traffic commissioner grilling you about what you done,  for being 2.71 ton over 77%. overloaded

Not on here you haven't (and nor elsewhere that I've seen). Those notions came from your vivid imagination and were dismissed on here (which you chose not to believe).

Quote

They slapped me with 3 points and £245 fine.

Which was in line with most suggestions, though the fine is a bit generous for such serious overloading.

Quote

 just my geuine reasons which lawyers/public ridiculed me...

That's principally because, from your description, they were ridiculous.

Quote

Main reason I plead guilty was £2000-4000 plus lawyer fees to pay 

You don't need a lawyer to plead Not Guilty. I would suggest your guilty plea was very wise since, again from your description of events, you clearly were guilty.

Thanks for letting us know the outcome.

 

[Braveheart2009]

13 hours ago, BankFodder said:

It sounds as if you have been extremely lucky. Overloading is an underestimated serious matter which can cause vehicles to run out of control and cause injury to innocent people.

4 hours ago, Man in the middle said:

plead Not Guilty. I would suggest your guilty plea was very wise since, again from your description of events, you clearly were guilty.

Thanks for letting us know the outcome.

The police lied to me they said they would charge me £600. £355 more than a court judge! Then they sent me a letter 2 days later saying your weight limit is above our criteria? They didn't know what they were talking about in the first place.

The court fine for being 10% overloaded on axle 1 was £37 and for being 90% overloaded on axle 2 was the same £37?

There was a £90 victim surcharge?  there was no victim involved?

Such a serious offence a police officer hasn't seen in 6 years serving is this? Not even a court appearance?

They don't want to spend a penny talking to you just give us your money and go.

Android courts.

Next it will be an app to plead guilty with a recorded audio about how severe your actions were. 

[FTMDave]

Then I'm bemused about why you didn't plead not guilty if you really felt you were not guilty.

There is no obligation whatsoever for anyone in court in England & Wales - even in a murder case - to pay for legal representation.

You could have done it all yourself.  You reckoned you had all the legal arguments.  Therefore you should have represented yourself, pleaded not guilty, and been acquitted for overloading even though you overloaded and shown all the idiots on this forum and elsewhere were wrong even though they have been proved right.

[Braveheart2009]

Solicitors who don't call/email you back, 

Wrong incompetent information

500 miles of traveling cost possibly x 5 adjourned court appearance due to delays happen last time.

Dealing with a social worker to decide their opinion what to write on the judges report. The judge doesn't have a clue about the case until the day. 

The courts are a theater we're games are played so you need to play to win. 

 

 

[Braveheart2009]

12 hours ago, Man in the middle said:

Not on here you haven't (and nor elsewhere that I've seen). Those notions came from your vivid imagination and were dismissed on here (which you chose not to believe).

Which was in line with most suggestions, though the fine is a bit generous for such serious overloading.

That's principally because, from your description, they were ridiculous.

You don't need a lawyer to plead Not Guilty. I would suggest your guilty plea was very wise since, again from your description of events, you clearly were guilty.

Thanks for letting us know the outcome.

 

They took 6 months to slap me with 3 points and money for their lunches. 

You get 3 points for going through a red traffic light or speeding so it's the same for a 90% overload on an axle.

I'm going to claim hardship on the fine I will be dealing with an algorithm.