UKPC ANPR PCN for 10 mins overstay of 3hrs free period - Friern Barnet Retail car park, London.

[Panicmood]

I have parked in frien barnet retail park for 3 hours and 10 minutes 3 seconds and got a penalty. 

This is from the moment we entered the parking. There should be minimum grace period of 10 minutes apart from the standard free parking time (3 hours ) in this case.  So can I make an appeal?

 

In this case for such a big retail park 3 hours is less but we were rushing to reach the car. Could have given more time to reach the car. My assumption was the moment we left the car park the shouldn't charge. But they have kept the camera at the main gate and every second matters. Not fair.

 

Please provide suggestions on this scenario.

[honeybee13]

Hello, welcome to CAG. I've moved your thread to our private parking forum.

Please don't appeal, it's likely to be a complete waste of your time and could cause you extra problems later.

If you let us have the information requested in the forum sticky, we'll start advising you.

Best, HB

 

[FTMDave]

Firstly, you haven't received a fine.  A private company doesn't have the power to fine anyone.  You've received a simple invoice.

Secondly, you're right, there is a 5-minute consideration period at the start and a 10-minute grace period when you leave.  However, the charlatans who sent the invoice will ignore the law and hope that you'll be frightened and will just give in.

Please let us have the information in the sticky.

 

[Panicmood]

Thanks for the responses. Please find below the answers for questionnaire

 

For a windscreen ticket (Notice To Driver) please answer the following questions....

 

1 The date of infringement?  30/07/2023
 

2 Have you yet appealed to the parking company yet? [Y/N?] Yes
 

I have made an appeal following their steps at the website www.ukpcappeals.com.

 

Has there been a response? Not yet. Submitted the appeal just today.
 

 

Have you received a Notice To Keeper? (NTK) [must be received by you between 29-56 days] Yes
 

What date is on it? 02/08/2023

Did the NTK provide photographic evidence? Yes, our car image with a timestamp

3 Did the NTK mention Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) [Y/N?] Yes.
 

4 If you appealed after receiving the NTK,

did the parking company give you any information regarding the further appeals process?

[it is well known that parking companies will reject any appeal whatever the circumstances] I have appealed just today and received the notice today as well.

5 Who is the parking company? UKPC - UkParkingControl.com
 

6. Where exactly [Carpark name and town] did you park? Frien Barnet Retail car park, London.

 

Please let me know if any further details are required.

 

[honeybee13]

 

Thank you for the details. 

So you asked about appealing, I said not to but you did it anyway?

Please post up what you said to them. And you did it by email?

HB

[dx100uk]

and the pcn/ntk bothsides plesae

read upload

[lookinforinfo]

There is no need to panic. UKPC rarely get all the necessary requirements correct in relation to the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 which governs private the private parking companies. This means they cannot transfer the liability for the charge from the driver to the keeper should the charge not be paid within 28 days.

Had you not appealed and perhaps revealed who was driving we might have been able to set your fears straight after seeing your PCN. By appealing you may have made things more difficult for yourself but not fatally so. 

Please post up the PCN and what you said in your appeal.and we can advise from there.

[honeybee13]

Please can we see what you said when you appealed?

HB

[FTMDave]

I've had to hide your post - you've left the fleecers' reference number showing - three times.

It also wouldn't take much to work out your real name and your post code.

Please read the upload guide and redact things properly.

[Panicmood]

The driver is my husband so we can't pass the charge to anyone. 

I appealed before I posted on this forum. So I was not aware appealing makes it easy for them.

Sorry attaching the parking charge letter again with masked details.

I don't have pictures of my appeal since I have given the explanation and details in their website as mentioned in the back of the letter.

In the nutshell I have mentioned the below in the appeal

Since my extra parking time is 10 minutes and 3 seconds I have mentioned it exceeds the 10 minutes grace period by 3 seconds only. Also the camera position is before we enter the parking area and it will take a minimum of 30 seconds in a non traffic day to enter the parking area from the camera position and the same applies for exit as well. In general the entry and exit parking clock starts once after we park the car. Not before we enter the parking area. 

Considering all this I have asked to cancel the parking charge.

Please advise what else I can do?

 

 

2023-08-02 UKPC PCN incident 2023-07-30.pdf

[lookinforinfo]

The PCN is not compliant with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012-the Act which governs the private  parking rogues .

They have failed on two items.

1 under Schedule4  of PoFA Section 9[2][f]  they are supposed to advise the keeper to pay the charge if they are not going to out the driver.. They didn't do that.

2 Under S9[2][a] they are supposed to specify the parking period. Driving the car from the entrance to the parking spot and later from the parking spot to the exit cannot obviously be termed as being parked. That means that the keeper is not responsible for the charge only the driver is liable. 

Providing you did not say who was driving then you are in the clear. 

 

[FTMDave]

Don't worry.  We'll all be around to help in the morning.

[FTMDave]

1 hour ago, Panicmood said:

I don't have pictures of my appeal since I have given the explanation and details in their website as mentioned in the back of the letter.

Yes, the fleecers do this deliberately so you don't have a copy and they can trip you up legally later.

If you've never been in this position before you're bound to make mistakes, that's inevitable.  We've all been there, done that, in legal disputes.  The important thing to learn from the mistakes and get it right in the future.  However, let's cut to the chase.

1.  Honeybee said not to appeal on a Saturday evening.  Honeybee is not a goddess who has to be always obeyed, but surely Sunday could have been spent on investigating the whys & wherefores of appealing or not appealing.  After all, the fleecers' office is shut until Monday.  Instead of, er, immediately appealing.  And not even taking a screenshot of a document that you might need to produce in court.

2.  Think about things logically.  You've underlined the unfairness of the invoice.  But who are you appealing to?  An unbiased mediation service?  No, you're asking the very charlatans who ignored the law about grace periods to judge themselves.  Really, how will this work out?  It's like someone having to pay extortion payments to the Mafia who decides to appeal - to the Mafia.

3.  When the fleecers sent their invoice, they knew who the registered keeper was, but they didn't know who the driver was, so they had no-one to sue.  The "appeal" (ha! ha!) procedure where you get no copy is designed to entrap motorists to write "I parked" rather than "the driver parked" and then the driver is outed and the vampires have someone to sue.  Did you out the driver? 

Despite the mistakes and bad start to this case, the fact is that the spivs have ignored the law on consideration & grace periods, and not only the law but their own trade association's Code of Practice,so you're still in a good position. 

[lookinforinfo]

This is the current rule from the BPA Code of Practice relating to Grace periods.

13.3 Where a parking location is one where a limited period of parking is permitted, or where drivers contract to park for a defined period and pay for that service in advance (Pay & Display), this would be considered as a parking event and a Grace Period of at least 10 minutes must be added to the end of a parking event before you issue a PCN.

"a period of at least 10 minutes ....." So they have broken the Code which means they have breached your GDPR. they are also in breach of the DVLA regs in that they must adhere to the BPA  Code of Practice.