2 PCN's issued on my road of residence for new pedestrian zone. S8 permit holder exempted. **RESOLVED**

[Hopeful Williams]

Hi Everyone, I need help. I've attached correspondence re everything mentioned. Apologies for it not being in order.

I received two PCNs a day apart in January 2023 for driving through a new pedestrian zone on the road I live on.

I'm now just a day out of the order for recovery stage.

I've been abroad for a while, the signs were new, I had not seen it, nor do I think I was properly notified. Furthermore during this period a connecting road which would take residents out of our cul de sac was closed due to roadworks, giving only one other road to travel through, other than this pedestal zone, which is a much longer way.

It seems this new pedestrian zone was implemented because of a school and overcrowding on the road. The pedestrian zone sign mentions exemptions for S8 permit holders.  In September last year, a fellow housemate mentioned via email that there were restrictions in our area coming, they'd applied for a permit and I should to.

It was unclear, what restrictions and to who I apply to, so I followed up on the email address they provided where they were approved and requested mine. This led to a back and forth, but no approval. What I have done is written to [email protected] and [email protected] asking for more time, as well as forwarding them the correspondence of my back and forth trying to get a permit.

Do I have a case still?

Please help!

 

convert-jpg-to-pdf.net_2023-06-21_09-48-47_compressed (1).pdf

[Manxman in exile]

Forgive my ignorance, but who are "Mipermit" and what do they have to do with a council permit?

Why didn't you just apply direct to Havering Borough Council for a permit like your housemate told you he had done in his email - "In September last year, a fellow housemate mentioned via email that there were restrictions in our area coming, they'd applied for a permit and I should to."

I know you go on to say that it was unclear who you should apply to, but his email to you clearly shows forwarded confirmation from Havering that they had accepted his online application for a permit.  Why didn't you just do the same?

The signage seems quite clear to me.

But see what others suggest.

(If you still live there, do you now have a S8 permit from Havering?)

Edited June 21, 2023 by Manxman in exile

[Hopeful Williams]

Appreciate the response. The mipermit email address was who sent the email of approval to my housemate and was the only email address copied when my housemate forwarded me correspondence about their approval, so I followed up with this email address. 

I don't have an S8 permit form, I don't even know what it is.

Do I have hope in this fine being revoked, that's what I need help with.

[Manxman in exile]

Two minutes going to Havering's website and searching for "S8 permit" shows it's to do with school parking enforcement on Farm Road and Shade Mews in respect of Parsonage Farm school.  (Is that where you are talking about?)

The page tells you how to apply for a permit and what documents you need in order to do so.   (And it looks like you can apply via MiPermit?)

School parking enforcement - The school street scheme | Parking tickets and traffic fines | The London Borough Of Havering

WWW.HAVERING.GOV.UK

---

Pay or appeal parking fines issued within Havering

If you are going to drive along Farm Road and/or Shade Mews you obviously need a permit.

I don't see how you can challenge the PCN.  The signage seems quite clear and the photo shows you driving past the two signs at the entrance to the road in question.

You probably need to pay up before it escalates futher to bailiffs, but see if any other posters have any good ideas re a challenge.

(PS - you might want to explore why MiPermit wouldn't let you buy a permit.  That might form the basis of a challenge, but I simply don't know)

Just to add, I've followed the application instructions on the Havering website I linked to in my previous post and it seems straightforward to apply for a "Resident Access Virtual Permit - School Street S8 (Parsonage Farm)" for the "Restricted Streets" Farm Road, Rainham and Shade Mews, Rainham.  Havering London Borough Digital Permits and Cashless Parking (mipermit.com)

 

Not sure why you had so much difficulty finding a permit...

[Hopeful Williams]

I found applying for a permit difficult because at the time of enquiring about one, there was no road sign. I was applying based off the knowledge that there would be parking restrictions in the area.

You were only able to find out about the S8 permit because of the photo of the sign I took 5 months after the fine. My query is really about how to get the fine revoked, given I made an effort to apply for a permit, had limited knowledge on it, had driven on that road for over 10 years prior and had just come back from a long time abroad, making it understandable to miss the sign, and they I live on the road.

Furthermore, if you search 'S8 permit Havering' on Google, no results including S8 permit on the borough site appears. Given this and what I've previously explained, and even as a standalone point, it's pretty presumptuous to think that residents should know to search up the Havering website before typing in S8 permit holder.

Again, wanting to know if I have a case here. Appreciative of your help.

Upon checking the permit site further, I see there's an exemption for

"Challenging a Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) in special circumstances

A visitor or a taxi taking a resident to a doctor appointment sporadically or as an emergency, will receive a PCN which will be able to be challenged providing evidence of the doctor appointment as a mitigating reason. "

I was actually on my way to the GP on both days my fines were issued (24th and 25th January) to pick up and drop forms and kits for a medical surgery I underwent in a neighbouring area on 26th January. However, these were not appointments but sporadic necessary trips to the GP surgery. I have these trips to the GP timestamped on my Google Map location tracking.

I just called the GP and they said because it wasn't a booked appointment, they may not be able to write a letter for me, and if the GP does it'll occur a charge. They said I should email in if I want to proceed, which I'm thinking to do.

 

Advice?

 

[honeybee13]

I expect others will comment but as I see it, you weren't a visitor or a taxi taking somebody. Are you suggesting telling porkies to the council? And then how does it look when you apply for this permit anyway as a resident?

HB

[Hopeful Williams]

Hopefully this makes sense:

I drove myself to the GP on those occasions. I don't understand the thinking behind your suggestion of porkeys? Who mentioned that? Very unhelpful. What I'm looking for and asking advice on is whether there can be understanding and an allowance.

Second, I tried to apply via MiPermit (which is also mentioned their site) last year and faced issues.

Third, I live in the road. These points plus what I've previously provided should be explanatory enough.

[honeybee13]

You posted this.

 A visitor or a taxi taking a resident to a doctor appointment sporadically or as an emergency, will receive a PCN which will be able to be challenged providing evidence of the doctor appointment as a mitigating reason. "

I assumed you were saying you would argue it applies to you.

HB

[dx100uk]

which he is neither.

dead duck

 

dx

 

[Hopeful Williams]

Hi, 

On the PE3 Form,

What is the solicitor meant to write in the following, "Declared at:___ in the:____"?

 

20230626_053002.pdf

[dx100uk]

sols company name & in the office of (their address)..i believe

[Hopeful Williams]

I beat the case. No thanks to any of you. Manxman in exile, honeybee13 and dx100uk, perhaps consider trying to help rather than seeing this as one collective intellectual self pleasuring activity. Similar to what I imagine must take place frequently in solitude. You all aren't that impressive, believe me.

Give space for grace and encouragement with these nuanced situations. Now you are the dead ducks.

 

NB I won't be coming back to this thread or reading replies, so save your insults. As long as you've read what I've to say I'm pleasured

Edited August 26, 2023 by Hopeful Williams

[dx100uk]

dont think i was dismissive , but it would help others reading this thread in the future to please expand upon how you got the result you wanted not poke sticks, after all as you say CAG are supposed to help ......

 

dx