Trulawn/Technigrass LTD: S 75 Claim - contract dispute artificial lawn installation.

[dx100uk]

About Jaja Finance

 

Jaja Finance Ltd is a fintech providing digitally-led credit card products with a focus on simplicity, functionality, service and security. It is headquartered in London and regulated by the FCA, and combines the technical and digital capabilities of a modern technology business with deep retail financial services and credit card sector experience.

 

As part of its long-term partnership with the Bank of Ireland signed in June 2019, Jaja welcomed Bank of Ireland UK and AA Credit Card customers onto its new credit card platform in October 2020, transferring historical Post Office Credit Cards to new Jaja Credit Cards.

[Manxman in exile]

Thanks.  Never heard of them.  Wonder if they know what a s75 claim is?

 

(Which is borne out by their earlier statement that they would prosecute the trader!    )

 

Just wondering whether there may be an issue regarding who the creditor is for the purposes of s75?  Is it JAJA or is it the card provider (Visa or Mastercard)?

 

Perhaps JAJA have to prove to Visa or Mastercard that the claim is good...?

Edited May 19, 2023 by Manxman in exile

[rizel23]

Many thanks.

 

Yes, it is a credit card (Previously Post Office Credit card)  they rejected a chargeback request so we escalated to Section 75 claim. 
 

I have spoken many times on the phone with them and made clear it’s a claim of breach of contract, they just repeat the script each time that they need a report that states the work that has been undertaken breaches industry standards despite me advising them ‘standards’ are subjective and not covered by any regulatory act, it’s madness. 

 

I can only assume they are doing everything possibly in an attempt we will give up.

 

Thanks again. 

[rizel23]

Thanks Maxman,

 

RE: Visa or Mastercard, I dont think that would be a concren of the consumer under CRA regrdless?  Who JAJA choose to use is there business and I dont think it matters under Section 75 to the consumer. 

[Manxman in exile]

My point was that s75 specifically makes "the creditor" liable in what is referred to as the "debtor - creditor - supplier" chain.

 

You are the debtor.  Your contractor is the supplier.  I'm not sure whether the creditor is JAJA or Visa or Mastercard.  If it isn't JAJA they might have to comply with whatever instructions they have from Visa/Mastercard in respect of paying out on s75 claims.

 

Usually you just make a claim against your bank and - if successful - they pay up.  Because I've never heard of JAJA and I don't know under what authority they issue credit cards I'm just saying I don't know who the creditor is.  It might be a complication - or it might not...

 

Just as I haven't heard of JAJA they appear not to have heard of s75.

 

I think you may need to spell it out to them in words of one syllable that your claim is for breach of contract in that your contractor deliberately didn't follow the agreed contract specification and installed something that - in effect - you did not contract to buy.  Nothing to do with industry standards or building regs.  They simply departed from the agreed specification without your agreement.

 

Have you asked for the claim to be escalated to somebody who might know what they are doing?

 

As I posted earlier, see what else @BankFodder suggests.  They're better than me at untangling these sort of disputes.

[BankFodder]

I'm still waiting to hear why you are not examining the possibility of suing the contractor directly. I asked this question earlier but it hasn't drawn any response.

Whatever happens you will need to get a quotation for uninstalling the work which has been carried out incorrectly and then reinstalling the artificial grass to your original specification.
When you get that quotation, you can get the company which provides it also to comment on the installation so far and to include comments in respect of a comparison between your specification and what they find on the ground.
You should probably get two independent quotations and each quotation can also make references to the work which has been carried out so far with specific reference to the specification.

Once you do that, you will calculate your claim according to your actual losses which would be – cost of uninstalling and re-implementing minus originally agreed contractual price = the value of your claim

How about letting us in on the secret as to why you are not looking at the contractor as a possible defendant

[dx100uk]

2 hours ago, rizel23 said:

Yes, it is a credit card (Previously Post Office Credit card)

 

which would have and will still be governed by the consumer credit act, under which you are making the section 75 claim.

just because JAJA bought up your agreement, it does not absolve them from compliance under the act as you have not signed a new agreement etc etc.

if this were say barclaycard, there would be no quibbling going on.

 

sorry but they need to be told straight and in simple terms.

 

pers id stop faffin around.

 

write to them

give them 14 days to settle the claim fully else you'll be involving the FOS on day 15 without further notice.

 

 

 

 

 

[honeybee13]

Is it these people?

 

TECHNIGRASS LTD overview - Find and update company information - GOV.UK

FIND-AND-UPDATE.COMPANY-INFORMATION.SERVICE.GOV.UK

---

TECHNIGRASS LTD - Free company information from Companies House including registered office address, filing history, accounts, annual return...

 

HB

[BankFodder]

Paul Robinson

WWW.FACEBOOK.COM

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Paul Robinson is on Facebook. Join Facebook to connect with Paul Robinson and others you may know. Facebook gives people the power to share and...

 

Google Maps

WWW.GOOGLE.COM

---

7 Reeth Cl, Leicester LE4 0SP

 

[rizel23]

Thanks all, yes those are the details and contractor, which is a franchise of Truelawn.

 

Yes, we will look down a small claims courts once this situation is settled RE S75 and provide 3 quotations for making good.

 

I will write again to JAJA and explain clearly again that this is a breach of contract under S75 and the CRA and allow 14 days for a response but escalating FOS on the 15th day.

 

Sorry, we just did not expect to get what we paid for on this, we made sure all three quotations were the same before proceeding with written specifications.  
 

Thanks again everyone for view points. 

[BankFodder]

On 19/05/2023 at 15:28, BankFodder said:

How about letting us in on the secret as to why you are not looking at the contractor as a possible defendant

 

[rizel23]

On 20/05/2023 at 15:47, BankFodder said:

 

Currently we have paid nothing for the works so currently nothing to reclaim back, if that changes we will review options thanks 

[Manxman in exile]

1 hour ago, rizel23 said:

Currently we have paid nothing for the works so currently nothing to reclaim back, if that changes we will review options thanks 

 

I thought you'd paid 50% (£2150?) on your credit card as a deposit?  Isn't that what you're claiming back from JAJA?

 

It doesn't answer why you aren't first taking action against the contractor...

Edited May 22, 2023 by Manxman in exile

[BankFodder]

And what about the cost of making good ?

And also why aren't you suing the contractor?

Maybe you could tell us what you are actually trying to achieve

[rizel23]

Sorry all, the transaction is on hold hence we have actually not paid anything yet, does that make sense?

 

If JAJA fail to proceed with a Section 75 and then charge us we will then start action agaist both JAJA and the contractor. 

[Manxman in exile]

Well that might put a slightly different complexion on it... (?)

So your contractor hasn't received any payment yet.  Has he contacted you regarding payment?

I don't know, but I'm not sure you can make a s75 claim if your card company hasn't paid the contractor yet.  My understanding - which may be wrong - is that s75 depends on the card company being the creditor in the debtor - creditor - supplier chain.  If the card company haven't paid the contractor yet I'm not sure if you have a s75 claim because I'm not sure JAJA are a creditor in these circumstances(?).

I'm wondering if you may have jumped the gun by asking JAJA to hold the payment...   Did you ask them to hold it or what?

I think what would normally happen is that you would have made a credit card payment to the contractor, you would then have tried to recover it from him, and if that failed you would pursue a s75 claim against your card provider.  Or you might have sued them jointly from the get go.  But that hasn't happened here.

Also, what about BankFodder's question about the cost of making good?  Normally you'd be suing the contractor and then making a s75 claim if he didn't pay up.  What I'm really not certain about here is what level of involvement JAJA have if they haven't paid the contractor at all and might not be a creditor(?).

See what @BankFodder suggests as I'm a bit puzzled in this situation

 

Edited May 25, 2023 by Manxman in exile

[rizel23]

Sorry, we did not ask them to hold the payment they released it after they declined the chargeback, they then requested payment and then we registered the S75  claim, they place the request for payment from us hold, so I presuem its on hold in regards to asking us to make payment not JAJA holding the payment from the other merchant. The amount is still registered on our card but the payment for it is on hold (and interest)

 

If nothing its an interesting case! lol 

[BankFodder]

@Manxman in exile   

 

Thanks for the reference. I have already asked two or three questions from the OP and for some reason or other my questions are being ignored.

I don't think I can make any comments without the information I am asking for

 

 

[rizel23]

Sorry Bankfodder what have I missed? 
 

I thought I had answered everything?

In summary if JAJA do not proceed with a S75 claim we will proceed to the FOS with a complaint.

It is likely that Techi grass will continue to seek the remaining balance (we have already had some letters from a debt recovery firm where we have advised there is a S75 claim currently in progress)  where we defend and provide evidence of a breach of contract and quotations to make good should the matter end up in small claims court or we will bring action against Techigrass directly and claim for costs of making the works good.

Is there anything I have missed or not made clear? Thanks 
 

 

 

[BankFodder]

On 17/05/2023 at 14:45, BankFodder said:

....

You haven't mentioned the identity of the credit card issuer/bank. Is there a reason for this?
I notice that you have actually been asked for this information but you don't seem to have responded.

The second thing is that I understand that you contracted for certain work to be carried out. You have written evidence of the specification which was agreed and the contractor implemented a different specification without any consultation or agreement from you.

....

I understand that you are seeking a refund of the money spent but you don't seem to be addressing the cost of undoing the work and reinstalling the work to your original specification.

Have you received any quotations for this? (I'm assuming that this is what you would like to do) I notice that you have been asked what remedy you are seeking and I'm not sure that you have dealt with that question.

Why are you not suing the contractor directly?

You may well tell me that this is all been dealt with in the thread – and if it has then I'd missed it.

Maybe you would like to sum it all up here

 

On 19/05/2023 at 15:28, BankFodder said:

I'm still waiting to hear why you are not examining the possibility of suing the contractor directly. I asked this question earlier but it hasn't drawn any response.

Whatever happens you will need to get a quotation for uninstalling the work which has been carried out incorrectly and then reinstalling the artificial grass to your original specification.
When you get that quotation, you can get the company which provides it also to comment on the installation so far and to include comments in respect of a comparison between your specification and what they find on the ground.
You should probably get two independent quotations and each quotation can also make references to the work which has been carried out so far with specific reference to the specification.

Once you do that, you will calculate your claim according to your actual losses which would be – cost of uninstalling and re-implementing minus originally agreed contractual price = the value of your claim

How about letting us in on the secret as to why you are not looking at the contractor as a possible defendant

 

On 20/05/2023 at 15:47, BankFodder said:

How about letting us in on the secret as to why you are not looking at the contractor as a possible defendant

 

On 22/05/2023 at 22:12, BankFodder said:

And what about the cost of making good ?

And also why aren't you suing the contractor?

Maybe you could tell us what you are actually trying to achieve

please forgive me if I've missed it – but it seems to me that I'm not the only person who has had to ask it more than once for answers.

Once again, I have not been directly involved in the thread so I'm only skimming it and trying to play catch-up but now I understand that you haven't even paid anything to these contractors despite the fact that originally you said you had paid 50%.

I'm afraid that this thread is a bit of a garble and it would be nice to get the story briefly in a bullet pointed chronological order.

I really don't understand why you are beginning a section 75 claim against anybody if you haven't paid anything.
I also don't understand why you aren't dealing with the cost of undoing and redoing the work – but it seems that you are resolutely not doing it.

I also don't understand – as has been asked several times – why you aren't suing the contractor directly.

This thread has been going on for 10 days and really it is still all as clear as mud.

It will be really helpful if you would fully engage with this thread