G24 ANPR PCN - exceeded free parking by 11imns - Appealed - Robin Retail Park, Loire Drive, Wigan, Lancashire WN5 0UH

[blueboy2419]

I wish I had found this site earlier, I may have already given up more than I should.

I went to Robin Retail Park on 5th April 2023. It was half term and mad busy. G24 sent me a PCN on 19th April with entry time 13:46:11 and exit time 16:57:43

They say I exceeded the Free Parking Period of 180 minutes by 11 minutes, obviously taking the time between entry and exit.

I have responded to the PCN and completed the first stage appeal on the basis that I did not exceed the 'Free Parking Period' because it took me 9 minutes to find a space and it took 5 minutes to exit the car park.

The signage says 180 mins free parking, not 180 minutes maximum stay, and I believe my parking period started when I parked in a bay and ended when I left the bay, which I calculate to be 177 minutes.

I contacted the leaseholder of the retail park and they said they would challenge the PCN. I haven't heard anything back from G24 yet.

Any advice on what might happen next?

Grateful

 

[dx100uk]

next time never ever appeal a speculative invoice.

 

please complete this:

 

and scan up all comms in/out and bothsides of all letters in/out in date order to ONE multipage pdf

 

read our upload guide carefully!!

 

 

 

[blueboy2419]

Thanks for the assistance, I hope this is right. Firstly, answers to the questionnaire (also included in the attached PDF)

 

1 Date of the infringement 5^th April 2023

 

 2 Date on the NTK  19^th April 2023

 

3 Date received  24^th April 2023

 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012?  N 

 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event?  Images on NTK showing entry and exit

 

6 Have you appealed?  Y 

 

Have you had a response? N  

 

 7 Who is the parking company? G24 Limited 

 

8. Where exactly Robin Retail Park, Loire Drive, Wigan, Lancashire WN5 0UH

 

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under.  IAS

 

 

Wigan G24 PCN 20230405.pdf

[dx100uk]

You might well be ok here as there is time allowed to enter/exit added to parking time in their guidelines common to the industry

 

dx

 

[lookinforinfo]

This is a classic case of why we ask that you do not appeal. 

 

The PCN arrived after the 14 day period which means that the charge cannot be transferred from the driver to the keeper 

 

Courts do not accept that the driver and the keeper are necessarily the same person. So had you not written your appeal plainly outing yourself as the driver you would have been in a much stronger position.

 

However all is not lost.

 

Your overstay was around 10 minutes. Under the IPC code of conduct you have a consideration time of 5 minutes plus a 10 minute grace period. So as you rightly claim in your appeal you did not exceed the available parking period.

 

Plus of course there is your other argument that you were not parked there since driving around looking for a parking space plus being held up when leaving is not parking.

 

you may even have a case for them breaching your GDPR.

[dx100uk]

thread tidied.

 

one point

dont confuse speculative invoices with Penalty Charge Notices which are FINES

i notice their PCN you've labelled as a penalty Charge Notice in your PDF

it is NOT and can never be.

 

what @lookinforinfo is hinting at is although the incident happened 05 apr and that PCN from them is dated 19th and that's 14 days and is ok, BUT it does not allow for postage of 2 day so could never have arrived with you until atleast the 16th inc , which it couldn't have done as that was a sunday anyway!! so monday was the earliest day it could ever have gotten to you , but you say 24th...blimey their stuffed!

 

ignore everything until if/you ever get a letter of claim.

 

get reading a good few 10-20+ threads here in the forum you found to start yours in and get all the info you need to settle down and get things right and not panic....

 

well done 

 

dx

 

[FTMDave]

I agree with the others.

 

The bad - they had no-one to sue as they didn't know who the driver was, and they sent out their bilge too late to create keeper liability.  But you outed yourself as the driver.

 

The good - your reasoning about the free parking period is spot on.  Despite the coming deforestation, G24 are highly, highly unlikely to do court.

 

Well done on getting on to the organ grinder - they have the power to call the fleecers off.

 

Let us know when the Retail Park reply, and when the charlatans do.

 

 

[Gick]

ONLY A COURT CAN ISSUE FINES.

 

Councils can issue Penalty Charge Notices, Police can issue Fixed Penalty Notices, neither of which is a Fine. 

 

Private Parking Companies can only issue Parking Charge Notices ie. 'Speculative Invoices'

[blueboy2419]

Cheers. To be honest I think my brain filled in the Penalty bit I should have realised it said Parking Charge Notice.

 

I'll sit tight until further correspondence arrives.

[blueboy2419]

OK, the inevitable rejection arrived.

 

I've added it to the pdf and attached a new version here. Do I ignore this?

 

Cheers

Wigan G24 PCN 20230405 v2.pdf

[FTMDave]

They were always going to reject your appeal.  G24 are well known to the forum - a bunch of complete charlatans.  You also outed yourself as the driver and gave them someone to sue.

 

However, they won't sue you.  They have shot themselves in the foot by treating the ANPR times as the parking times when they were not.  They are members of the BPA whose CoP allows 15 minutes as consideration + grace periods, as does the government CoP.  They will now destroy half the Amazon sending "threatening" letters but when it comes to it are highly, highly unlikely to do court.

 

Ignore them from now on.

 

But come back here if you ever get a Letter of Claim.

 

Did you get any joy from the Retail Park?

[blueboy2419]

Thanks for the advice and backup. I'll turn a deaf ear.

 

[Nicky Boy]

Pardon?

[blueboy2419]

@FTMDave - Nothing from the Retail Park leaseholder yet, other than confirmation that they raised the matter with G24.

[lookinforinfo]

You are lucky that G24 are members of the IPC thus they do observe the 5 minute consideration  period and the 10 minute grace period are not included in their times stated on the signage. BPA for some strange reason do not include the grace period in their calculations though I hope that any Judge would rule against them should it be challenged in court.

 

So G24  know  that you have not breached their contract thus I am unsure why they are pursuing you as you are still had 4 minutes even taking into account  the fact that their ANPR times are not actual parking times. 

[blueboy2419]

@LookingForInfo Thank you for confirming my view.

 

I guess they are hoping I will cave in and pay. Their attitude has made me even more determined to challenge this to the bitter end. Bring it on.

[FTMDave]

Spot on.  They wouldn't have a hope in hell in court.

 

The Retail Park leaseholder is a waste of space though.  They shouldn't be "raising" the matter with G24, they should be telling them to cancel the invoice.  It was them who called in the G24 vermin to infest the car park.

 

I suggest you tell them in no uncertain terms that G24 are ignoring the government Code of Practice as well as their trade association Code of Practice, you did not overstay, yet are still being threatened with court action by their minions, and if they (the Retail Park leaseholder) don't call off their dogs they will find themselves added as a Third Party to court action.

[honeybee13]

Thread reopened.

HB

[blueboy2419]

Well, didn't get the avalanche of correspondence I was expecting.......

Nothing at all until today, a letter from a debt recovery firm (more likely G24 in disguise!) with the usual 'pay now or else' blurb.

I've attached the letter to the end of the case but I plan to ignore it unless someone says otherwise.

Wigan G24 PCN 20230405 v3.pdf

 

[dx100uk]

you always ignore a dca on anything.

the only time you need to respond is to a solicitor representing the PPC when the letter is headed Letter Of Claim.

then pop back

 

[FTMDave]

I take it the Retail Park leaseholder was a waste of space?

[blueboy2419]

Leaseholder was a complete and utter waste of time.

 

[lookinforinfo]

IPC have recently changed their policy on the Consideration period and have decided not to include it in their parking period just like the BPA. So you are now one minute over the time but the grace period is a minimum of 10 minuted not a fixed time. Also they have included the arrival and departure times into the car park rather than the actual parking period so you are well within time.

[FTMDave]

Where did you find this LFI?

I've looked at the latest version of their CoP and it's still there, point 13.1  https://irp.cdn-website.com/262226a6/files/uploaded/Code_of_Practice_v8.pdf

[blueboy2419]

Been very quiet in the last months but they haven't gone away.

I'm ignoring this but for completeness I've attached the latest communication, threatening the next step will be Letter of Claim. If that is the plan,  I wish they would just get on with it!

 

 

G24 ANPR PCN - Appealed - Robin Retail Park, Loire Drive, Wigan, Lancashire WN5 0UH.pdf