CEL ANPR PCN Claimform - Morrisons, Butterfly Walk Car Park, London SE5 8RW

[notthedriver]

CEL ANPR PCN POPLA unsuccessful - Morrisons, Butterfly Walk Car Park, London SE5 8RW - Page 6 - Private Land Parking Enforcement - Consumer Action Group

Any update? Similar situation, interesting thread.

 

I notice the camera is taking a picture of the entry to wren Rd, and not of the car entering the carpark..

 

Having travelled into the left car park, then traveled to the end of wren Rd to find more parking options, then turned around and then entered the larger carpark on the right, I  spent 4 minutes from the ANPR capture, to 'arriving' at the carpark i parked and brought a ticket in.

 

Did they have any cameras that record the entry time into the car park that showed you were still over the 10mins, or where they just relying on you entering wren Rd, and assuming you parked immediately.  I don't know if popla would grant an appeal based on CEL failing to have timed evidence of entry to the car park, and me having a waze log showing entering and exiting the other car park first and actually being within the 10mins.

 

 

 

[dx100uk]

@notthedriver please create your own topic by hitting create or + in the top red banner

 

Also fill out our sticky in the private parking forum 

 

Dx

[notthedriver]

Yes, i'm sure you will win..

 

The picture of your car on the PCN notice is of it entering and exiting Wren RD, the ANPR camera is visible on google street view.

 

I do not know how they would try to counter someone who stated they drove past the car park up wren rd, and paused, then entered the car park 10 mins later and paid in compliance with t&c.

 

Without them having camera evidence its a he said, she said?

 

Unless wren rd is part of the car park, which I assume it isn't but someone else here properly knows this better.

 

 

[notthedriver]

I need to wait for the PCN first... if they send one.

 

However annoying it is to do so, it is more profitable for me to pay and work on my day job longer than fight it beyond a quick appeal they will almost certainly reject.

 

Edited January 28, 2023 by dx100uk
unnecessary previous post quote removed

[Annabooo]

@notthedriver

 

I wouldn't worry too much if you haven't received your PCN!

 

You might not even get one. Honestly! Worry when it comes.

 

Like I said, as long as you have a receipt to show that you have paid (even if you have paid an hour later which covers your whole entire time at their car park), that means agreement has been completed.

 

You have my thread and you can see their step by step actions/threats. Just have to laugh it off and ignore everything. 

For me, paying is easy.

I can just pay and forget about it but it is the principal.

 

Not once they have refunded me or even offered so it is interesting to see what the court will say about that. Also, their solicitor has written to me twice asking me to call them saying their client is prepared to negotiate with me.

It made me laugh because they must think they are in a weaker position to say that. 

 

To be fair, I have learnt a lot through this process.

 

This probably will help me in the future when I get into a similar situation again. 

[notthedriver]

I like the 'offer to treat' and pay at machine idea, but I'm not sure how legally it works as an excuse to avoid reading the t&c present in the car park, which are referred to by the entrance sign and all over the place.

 

If the machine had  t&c on it, that do not mention the 10 minute rule then this would be an excellent defence, and I suspect any sign that had a conflicting offering of t&c's would be a defence as to which ones you contracted under.

 

I wonder how long it takes a normal human to read the pay by phone t&c should you choose to pay that way.. Well i had a look, and the page appears to be missing 'not found'  Joy.

 

Security check

SUPPORT.PAYBYPHONE.CO.UK

 

Not Found

WWW.PAYBYPHONE.CO.UK

 

 

[notthedriver]

I'm not sure any of the new government private parking code is useful as the gov website says..

 

Private Parking Code of Practice is temporarily withdrawn pending review of the levels of private parking charges and additional fees

 

The BPA guide does explain how a entrance sign should be, and due to it being just off a main road, how much should be on it.. It does appear this sign apart from mentioning ABC is following the guidance, probably  just copied the example.

 

https://www.britishparking.co.uk/write/Documents/AOS/AOS_Code_of_Practice_January_2020_v8(2).pdf

 

Since Wren Rd is actually a private road, not a public highway, does  lack of PP effects the validity of the signs. I now worry our signage for the carpark for our block of flats has no PP either, but i can't find the case law on needing PP for a sign to be valid.

 

The Code of Practice has this section.. It's clear who the BPA does not want people to complain too. Your MP, and the MP whose town centre is losing business due to deceptive car parking practices.

 

9.7 At a time when the private parking sector is under intense scrutiny from Government, it is imperative that correspondence from MPs (and similar VIPs) is dealt with promptly with definitive and comprehensive responses given. When such correspondence is received, we expect you to acknowledge the communication within 10 days and respond within 28 days. If the complaint will take longer than 28 days to resolve, we expect you to update the MP of this. Failure to achieve these deadlines may

 

 

 

 

Edited January 29, 2023 by notthedriver

[lookinforinfo]

I understand the doubts about the new Code of Practice. 

This was part of the foreword by the government when the Code was introduced

"

Private firms issue roughly 22,000 parking tickets every day, often adopting a labyrinthine system of misleading and confusing signage, opaque appeals services, aggressive debt collection and unreasonable fees designed to extort money from motorists.

Apart from their inherent unfairness, these practices damage our high-streets, our towns and our city centres. We are determined to bring them to an end."

I cannot see Judges ignoring those sentiments much as the parking crooks would like them to. In any case the BPA Code doesn't even observe the Law when it comes to the Consideration period. Yes they do allow motorists five minutes to study the rules and leave without charge but if you decide to stay then that time is removed.  "13.2 13.2 The reference to a consideration period in 13.1 shall not apply where a parking event takes place."

Even the IPC don't do that.

 

As far as PP is concerned the regulations relating to them and parking is contained in Town and Country [control of Advertising] Regulations 2007 with various later amendments. There is a list of situations where they are required and when they are not. They are not particularly well laid out and sadly most councils do not understand them so are a soft touch for the parking companies telling them that their signs are deemed PP free when they are not.

 

[dx100uk]

own thread created.

 

dx