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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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New strategy for Allocation Questionnaires


BankFodder
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Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

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Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

If you have used the new strategy, was it successful?  

80 Caggers have voted

  1. 1. If you have used the new strategy, was it successful?

    • Yes - the draft was made into an order
    • No - standard/other directions were ordered


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Help needed please with S,O,E.

The Co-op are only defending on the fact my 2nd claim is for charges over 6 years old and the rate of interest I am charging them(even tho' they have paid out more than 6 years and at the same rate in my 1st claim).

Any suggestions please as how to word this in my S.O.E ?

Thank you.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/cooperative-bank/75783-phil-alison-co-op-3.html

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Yes you do. It's when your bank read ur court bundle, that they usually decide to pay up, cos they know they can't win! Send it recorded delivery as well so they've go no excuses.

 

I was planning on sending back just the completed AQ plus the 'Draft Order For Directions' with a copy being sent to the DG solicitors.

Please correct me if I’m wrong:- I don't send the Court Bundle at this stage, I wait until instructed to by the court, then it gets sent to the court with a copy going to DG solicitors.

Is there a covering letter template that I should use when I sending copies to DG?

Sorry for being dumb - I'm new to this

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I was planning on sending back just the completed AQ plus the 'Draft Order For Directions' with a copy being sent to the DG solicitors.

 

Please correct me if I’m wrong:- I don't send the Court Bundle at this stage, I wait until instructed to by the court, then it gets sent to the court with a copy going to DG solicitors.

 

Is there a covering letter template that I should use when I sending copies to DG?

 

Sorry for being dumb - I'm new to this

 

 

Mine must be different to yours, as the judge in my case has dispensed with the allocation questionnaire, then 2 days later I got a form requesting me to send several parts inc. schedule of charges, my bank statements, a statement of evidence and any other material that i will be relying on for my case. What does it say in ur letter?? What have they asked you to do so far??

Every case is different, and this is just mine!!!

Also, when you do eventually send your bundle off, YOU have to send it to your solicitors, the courts don't do it for you!! So happy printing and photocopying!!

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I received two letters on the same day: A notice of Transfer of Proceedings from Northampton County Court stating the case has been transferred to Bournemouth - This letter also had the defense attached. The second letter was from Bournemouth County Court that included the AQ. It has requested I return it by the 16th of July.

I am planning to complete and return the AQ plus the Draft Order of Directions (not the bundle). The bundle is sent later when the court requests it. If I have got this confused could someone please let me know?

Thanks,

MM

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First post so please be gentle with me.When I have filled in my N150 do I send a copy to A&L at the same time I present it at court.Not doing it on Moneyclaim you see.Whats the part about whether the other parties have agreed to the directions(sectionF-Proposed Directions)about?Do you only send on a,b,c and d of Draft order if Judge requests them or do you have to send them within 14 days of serving my N150 form.Does this cost £100 by the way?

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First post so please be gentle with me.When I have filled in my N150 do I send a copy to A&L at the same time I present it at court.Not doing it on Moneyclaim you see.Whats the part about whether the other parties have agreed to the directions(sectionF-Proposed Directions)about?Do you only send on a,b,c and d of Draft order if Judge requests them or do you have to send them within 14 days of serving my N150 form.Does this cost £100 by the way?

 

 

Welcome To CAG Bobberding, You will get loads of help on here.

First, could you start your own thread and on there put on what you have done so far, then when you have your own thread, its like your story board, and peeps can see what you have done so far & advise

better

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/alliance-leicester/

 

Here is a guide to filling in AQ , i have not done N150 so cant help there, the £100 fee is normally to be paid with N150 but best to ring & confirm with the court office, as it seems to change from court to court.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/11644-allocation-questionnaires-guide-completion.html

 

Advise you read as much as you can on here as theres a lot to learn to make sure your successfull, but as long as you post your progress & ask any questions, no matter how daft, you will get the help you need.

 

Good luck with your claim.

 

Celicaman

Templates Library

 

GE Capital Won

Capital 0ne Won

Northern rock Claim stayed working on negotiation

HSBC personal claim 1 ''WON''.

£1800 plus full stat interest plus costs.

Claim started 14/02/07 offer 3/07/07

 

Next:Coming soon to a thread near you! :)

HSBC personal Part 2 'return of the Celicaman'

HSBC business 1 ' my empire strikes back' N1 claim POC in progress after usual offensive offer from bank

HSBC business 2 'attack of the Celicaman'

HSBC business claim 3 'bank account menace'

HSBC business 4 'Revenge of the CAG Member' the final insult ....................... 'Maybe'

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Bobberding, also each bank and its Solicitors have different methods of doing things and some aspects of claims are different .

By posting on the A & L forum, you get more specific answers.

Then there are forums like this one where they are mainly dealing with AQ questions.

Bit of a minefield at first, but you will get the hang of it

 

CM

Templates Library

 

GE Capital Won

Capital 0ne Won

Northern rock Claim stayed working on negotiation

HSBC personal claim 1 ''WON''.

£1800 plus full stat interest plus costs.

Claim started 14/02/07 offer 3/07/07

 

Next:Coming soon to a thread near you! :)

HSBC personal Part 2 'return of the Celicaman'

HSBC business 1 ' my empire strikes back' N1 claim POC in progress after usual offensive offer from bank

HSBC business 2 'attack of the Celicaman'

HSBC business claim 3 'bank account menace'

HSBC business 4 'Revenge of the CAG Member' the final insult ....................... 'Maybe'

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Celicaman,

Just tried to add to your rep for helping the newbies.

 

However, looks like I've blobbed you recently, so the old cagbots won't let me........ meanies !!

 

PM

  • Haha 1

All opinions and advice I offer are purely my own, and are offered without any liability. If unsure seek the help of a licensed professional

...just because something's in print doesn't mean its true.... just look at you Banks T&C's for example !

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Celicaman,

Just tried to add to your rep for helping the newbies.

 

However, looks like I've blobbed you recently, so the old cagbots won't let me........ meanies !!

 

PM

 

Cheers anyway PM, appreciate that.

i think freaky is trying to rack the points up, Poor soul has even put a little thing on the bottom his post, 'that if you feel sorry for him, click his scales, or else pete & celica will get more than him' LOL

Poor guy LOL :-D

 

CM

  • Haha 1

Templates Library

 

GE Capital Won

Capital 0ne Won

Northern rock Claim stayed working on negotiation

HSBC personal claim 1 ''WON''.

£1800 plus full stat interest plus costs.

Claim started 14/02/07 offer 3/07/07

 

Next:Coming soon to a thread near you! :)

HSBC personal Part 2 'return of the Celicaman'

HSBC business 1 ' my empire strikes back' N1 claim POC in progress after usual offensive offer from bank

HSBC business 2 'attack of the Celicaman'

HSBC business claim 3 'bank account menace'

HSBC business 4 'Revenge of the CAG Member' the final insult ....................... 'Maybe'

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Thanx Celicaman.Not got used to this site yet.Tried to post onA&L site but it wouldn't let me.Not authorised or something.:-?

 

Have you registered as a user, you need to log in to start thread.

If you click on the CAG logo at top right of this page it should take you to the home page & see how to register there.

 

CM

Templates Library

 

GE Capital Won

Capital 0ne Won

Northern rock Claim stayed working on negotiation

HSBC personal claim 1 ''WON''.

£1800 plus full stat interest plus costs.

Claim started 14/02/07 offer 3/07/07

 

Next:Coming soon to a thread near you! :)

HSBC personal Part 2 'return of the Celicaman'

HSBC business 1 ' my empire strikes back' N1 claim POC in progress after usual offensive offer from bank

HSBC business 2 'attack of the Celicaman'

HSBC business claim 3 'bank account menace'

HSBC business 4 'Revenge of the CAG Member' the final insult ....................... 'Maybe'

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Hi there

I have received a transfer of proceedings to my local court notice. It also says that the AQ is being dispensed with.

shall I just wait for the court to contact me as someone suggested in an earlier post. I am a little confused. Some say just wait some say no contact the court.

Any suggestions???

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Hey all,

 

I've just recieved a letter from Northampton court saying that my AQ has been dispensed with - How is this fair?

 

Surely the AQ is a chance to put the basics to the court and also an opportunity to expose the bank's time-wasting tactics. Is this a new thing brought about by an overflowing small claims system? And what does it mean as regards the draft order discussed on this thread?

 

Sorry for all the questions, but I'd taken the day off work to complete my AQ, and now I'm at a bit of a loss...Oh how I hate U Lloyds.

 

From reading earlier postings it would seem all I can do is wait for the court to get in touch, but I just think this kind of nullifies the draft order and it seemed like such a great idea.

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Dropping the AQ stage is, as you say, largely to save time. there's no reason why you can't still propose the draft order. Write to the court, something allong the lines of:

 

"...I am in receipt of your letter informing me that the Allocation questionnaire has been dispensed with in this case. I believe that this is now being done by many courts in cases of this nature, to save court time. With this in mind, may I respectfully suggest that using the following draft order for directions may speed the case to a conclusion..."

 

something like that. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

PLUS, it shows the court that you are making a serious effort with your claim, unlike certain parties....

 

:D

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Beautiful One of a Kind! I like it.

 

The fact that banks are attempting to jam up the system is such a blatant abuse of our court system. As far as I can see they are using people's individual lack of resources against them - If I have to miss a day of work that costs me 20% of my weekly income, whilst the banks are dealing with claims en-masse, counting on people losing faith or just not being able to afford to go on. Whilst we are all becoming more familiar with the legal nuances of the system at evenings and weekends, the banks can hire a firm of solicitors. Justice? WHAT IS "JUST" ABOUT THIS??? I'm going to fight this claim even if it bankrupts me...

 

Phew - rant over. Sorry.

 

Again many thanks for the help - just one more question if I may - I notice that we're asked to log our claim details but that we should also avoid mailing the moderators. Is there somewhere specific to send our details or do we just add them to a database?

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You do need to send your details to a moderator.

 

try Jonni2bad, he's taken messages from me in the past couple of days.

 

you're absolutely right in your view of the way the banks are abusing the system. That's just why the draft orders are being used!

 

;)

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As previously posted we fit into the 'tried the new strategy but it got ignored' category. Now I'm preparing (trying to prepare) court bundle. Have messaged Guido as advised (thank you) but in the meantime can anyone point me in the right direction for the bundles...

 

Have been wandering the threads for ages & I'm getting dizzy!

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]Emily x

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