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    • next time dont panic and wet yourself and offer payment !! Date of issue – 14 june 2024 date for aos - 2nd july  date to file defence - 16th july      other than the CCA/CRP and if it ever gets that far..a witness statement, you send them NOTHING and dont ever instigate comms with them. esp by email.. i would be sending one final email in reply to theirs above. PLEASE NOTE: email is NOT to be used for any comms with regard to our mutual court claim. else they'll be sending a whole forest of faked agreements/documents to you one minute before a court deadline removing your shace to object/pull them apart as unenforceable etc. dx        
    • Unbelievably I can't find it, I will have a really good look for it when I have a bit more time on my day off this week. AS a side note, I emailed them offering a token payment to settle the account and avoid court action, which unsurprisingly they have declined. However their reply states:  A Claim was accepted on 19 June 2024 which means we cannot set up a payment plan just yet. You should have received a claims pack from the Court. We would ask for this to be completed with your offer of repayment and returned to either ourselves or the Court.  You have 21 days for this to be completed and returned in order to avoid a Judgment by Default. This means we would need to receive this by 10 July 2024. I was under the impression it was 19 days from date on the claim form. which was the 14th, which would be 3rd July. Could I use this against them as it seems like they are giving me false information in the hope of getting a judgement by default?
    • when is your mediation? honestly I don't think that the ups case is much use actually because it concerns third party rights BUT  as we know now the contract for packlink is direct and there are no third parties rights at all so you don't need it, and frankly the really helpful one will be from @occysrazor case but I don't know if they have it. expect evris mediation to be a complete fail yes
    • jk2054: I have ensured there's not reference to the third party rights in the updated letter of claim. BankFodder: thanks for the edits and information. I understand the Consumer Rights Act prohibits EVRi's attempts to avoid liability in their duty and care of accepting to deliver my parcel according to Section 57.  They have accepted to carry my parcel even though I have identified it as a laptop and specified the value so they must take reasonable care to deliver the parcel or face the consequences if it were lost as it seems to be in my case! I hadn't originally referenced Section 72 because of EVRi didn't offer any insurance whether free or for me to purchase. I understand that if I were to have any sort of insurance from EVRi then Section 72 refer to the rules of such secondary contracts. Is this section indicating that the insurance may reduce my rights or remedies to recourse to full compensation if I had been offered and purchased such insurance?  Is it beneficial to include this in the letter of claim (and subsequently reference both Section 57 and 72 in the MCOL?) although it might not be pertinent in my case?  Perhaps this is just to reinforce that in general EVRi and other couriers are taking such liberties with their customers so it is to send a message that they are breaching both sections? I made a few minor edits to the letter of claim but mainly grammatical type stuff and to keep consistent font, black colour, but the edits you provided are included and are extremely helpful and are putting me in a good position to email and post the letter to EVRi this week and get the ball rolling. Thanks. Evri letter of claim.pdf
    • Thank you for getting back to me I will do my best to get hold of the claim form tomorrow  When I spoke to MCOl on friday I asked for the extra 14 days so penty of time Onlymeagain
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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New strategy for Allocation Questionnaires


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If you have used the new strategy, was it successful?  

80 Caggers have voted

  1. 1. If you have used the new strategy, was it successful?

    • Yes - the draft was made into an order
    • No - standard/other directions were ordered


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I think that the order which is posted below would form a very good basis for a standard attachment to all AQs and could help to turn the heat up a bit.

 

I think that we could modify it and use it as a template and encourage anyone who returns an AQ to ask for the atrtached draft direction to be made into an order.

 

I suspect that quite a few judges would agree.

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In the XXXXXX County Court

Claim number XXXXXX

 

 

 

 

 

Between

 

XXXXXXXX - Claimant

 

and

 

 

XXXXX - Defendant

 

 

 

 

Draft Order for Directions

 

The Claimant shall within 14 days of service of this order send to the Defendant and to the Court:

  • a) A schedule setting out each charge repayment of which is sought, showing the date, amount, and reason given (if any) for that charge being made;

  • b) Copies of any statement or other document relied upon as showing that each and every charge has been made;

  • c) A statement of evidence of all matters relied upon as tending to show that the charges are irrecoverable as penalties or otherwise;

  • d) Copies of decided cases and other legal materials to be relied upon.

If the Claimant fails to comply with this order, the claim will be struck out without further order.

 

 

 

2. The Defendant shall within 14 days thereafter file and serve a response to the Claimant's schedule, stating in respect of each item claimed;

  • a) Pursuant to what contractual provision such charge was made, producing a copy of the contractual document relied upon;

  • b) Whether such charge is accepted to be a penalty, and if not why not;

  • c) If such charge is alleged to be a pre-estimate of the Defendant's loss incurred by the Claimant's actions (whether or not such action is treated as a breach of contract between the parties), all facts and matters intended to be relied upon as showing that such was a proper estimate of such loss, and all evidence to be adduced at trial as to what the true cost of dealing with the matter was;

  • d) If such charge is not alleged to be a pre-estimate of the Defendant's loss incurred by the Claimant's actions then facts and matters intended to be relied upon showing the basis upon which the charge was calculated and all evidence to be adduced at trial as to show that the charge was fair and reasonable.

  • e) Any witness statements.

  • f) Copies of decided cases and other legal materials to be relied upon.

If the Defendant fails to comply with this order, the Defence will be struck out without further order.

 

Comments?

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Guide to the new AQ strategy

 

In section G (H if N150) of the AQ, you get the opportunity to add any other information you think may help the judge manage the claim, or make a request for specific orders that you want the judge to consider making.

 

Untill now, we have always requested an order of standard disclosure in this section, as per the AQ guide notes in the templates library.

 

A standard disclosure order, if it were ordered by the judge, would oblige the bank to fully substantiate exactly how its charges are made up and provide costings and documentary evidence, etc.

 

Trouble is, that standard disclosure is not availible in small claims cases - it is only usually ordered in the fast and multi-track. Judges do have the power to order it in small claims cases if they see fit, but up untill now they have been very reluctant to do so. In fact I'm only aware of a handful of cases in which it has been ordered dispite it being requested in hundreds of AQ's.

 

So now, instead of requesting an order of standard disclosure in the AQ, there is the option of requesting the directions as per the draft order on the previous page.

 

If ordered, this would still oblige the bank to produce all the important documentation that a standard disclosure order would - but, in a form that is far more likely to be agreed by the judge.

 

These directions are already being routinely ordered by some courts in small claims track cases, and it is fairly likely that if proposed most judges would agree to them. There is certainly no obvious reason why they would'nt, as is the case with standard disclosure.

 

So, if you want to request the directions on the previous page rather than standard disclosure, you need to attach the draft order (as per BF's post #2) to section G of the AQ. In the section G ('other info') itself, see below. If you have a N150, attach it to the 'proposed directions' section and see below for a suggestion of what to put in 'other info'.

 

The AQ will then go off to be looked at by the judge to consider the case file and AQ's and to allocate your claim - set the date, issue directions, etc.

 

You will then in a couple of weeks receive your notice of allocation from the court, which will contain the track, the date and the directions the judge has ordered.

 

If the judge has aceeded to your request and ordered the directions as proposed, you will THEN have to submit the claimants documents as per a), b), c) and d) of the order.

 

It is VERY IMPORTANT that you then know exactly what you need to provide and submit it to the court and the other side within the date specified on the order.

 

If you don't submit it, or don't submit it on time, your claim will then be struck out!!!

 

Once you've filed and served your documents, the bank will then have to submit theirs within their specified timescale. Going on past evidance, it is highly unlikely (although not inconcevable) that the bank will comply. They will probably either settle before the deadline, or default and have their defence struck out.

 

As discussed previously on this thread, the other big advantage of these directions is that the defendants documents have to be submitted within 28 days of the order. Therefore, the claims timescale would be considerably shortened as opposed to the standard small claims track directions, which don't require document exchange to take place untill 14 days before the hearing - which obviously in some cases could be months!

 

___________________________________________________________

 

Please note, there is now a condensed version of this thread containing all the important information in one place, here -

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/57708-draft-order-allocation-questionnaires.html

 

___________________________________________________________

 

 

Passage for section G/H - 'other information' (you'll need a seperate sheet)

 

You -v- Bank Plc

Claim No:*******

 

 

 

N149/N150 Allocation Questionnaire

 

 

 

Section G/H - other information

 

If the court is in agreement, it is respectfully suggested that special directions may be given as per the attached draft order.

 

I believe the proposed directions will further the Overriding Objectives in that they identify the most fundamental issues in dispute, and will allow them to be assessed in advance of the hearing so that this claim may proceed justly and expeditiously.

 

If the Defendant has the serious intention of defending this claim at trial as is indicated by its defence, I would contend that it is incumbent upon it to disclose such information. Further, the proposed directions are now routinely ordered in claims of this nature in the Mercantile Court in London, as well as in small claims track cases in Leicester, Derby, Chesterfield, Northampton and Mansfield County Courts.

 

As the law relating to contractual penalties is long established, I believe the outstanding issues to be of fact. Accordingly, I would respectfully request that this claim is allocated to the small claims track, and estimate that the hearing of the claim should last no longer than one hour.

Attach it to the AQ followed by the draft order. Then in the actual 'section G' box of the AQ, write this;

 

Please find the following attached to this allocation questionnaire;

 

1) Section G - other information

2) Draft order for directions

 

This allocation questionnaire and its attachments were sent to the defendant on **/**/**.

 

Then obviously send a copy of the AQ and attachments to the defendant as well as the court.

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Pros:

- It ties in nicely with the court bundle.

- By asking for 14 days from date of order, rather than the usual no later-than-14 days-before-hearing, it should hopefully them get them throwing in the towel faster.

- If not, we'll end up with more claims struck out when they get sloppy.

- It could be very popular with judges who will cotton on, as this effectively could mean the end of the clogged up court system.

 

Cons:

- We will have to have a skeleton statement for claimants, and it is going to be difficult to create a one-size-fits-all. Bear in mind that we are seeing people saying they don't understand the court bundle, which I find worrying if they got that far and don't understand what the UTCCR mean!

- Claimants can't afford to get sloppy AT ALL. Unfortunately, we know a few of them are. They'll be at risk. It shouldn't be our problem, but you know that these are the ones that come back and moan about it.

- It won't work for estimated claims. Now, I know we don't encourage estimated claims, but there have been some around for whatever reason, some even justified, and we's need to make it very clear that the above could not be used for their cases, or it would be the ultimate own goal.

- People will have to be very careful with their schedule, especially when working out interest, especially if claiming contractual. ( remember Haydn's case?)

 

Otherwise, great idea. Yes, it means that our lot are going to have to pull their socks up, but so will the other side, and how! Instead of them still dictating the pace, and settling at any time between now and court hearing, it gives them a strict timeable. It is the ultimate LBA, you might say. :-D

 

I like it.

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May there not be the possibility the judge returns the order and requests it submitted formally on an N244 ?

no. The allocation questionnaire is intended to deal precisely with this kind of thing. The part relating to directions would simply have to say "please see draft order"

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Bear with me while I get my head round this.

 

1. Is this a CPR 18 request?

2. If so shouldn't a CPR 18 request go to the bank first giving 14 days before asking the judge for an order?

 

I'm not familiar with this which is why I'm asking. I would however like something posted on the Yorkshire Bank forum advising claimants to use this, because as I understand it, it could put an end to their horrendous delaying tactics. I don't feel confident enough to do it myself though as I would then be classed as the "expert", which I'm clearly not.

The Consumer Action Group is a free help site.

Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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No - it's not a part 18 request. It is really just a well constructed order requiring an abbreviated from of standard disclosure.

 

It is well constructed because it was prepared by a judge who knew what he was doing.

Even by judge standards it is good

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Was just thinking that Citi claimants,with Citi's ludicrous £12.88 secret costs, would be perfect testing grounds too.

 

Thoughts?

 

Or £8 as a judge seems to have decided arbitrarily now.

The Consumer Action Group is a free help site.

Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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Pretty much, as good as for our purposes anyway. I would'nt have thought its necessary to ask for both.

Please remember to DONATE! Help CAG keep up the fight!

 

 

Any advice or opinion is offered informally & without liability. Use your own judgment and if in doubt seek advice of a qualified and insured professional.

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Well if it were my AQ, I'd attach the draft order to section F, with section H containing; a request for allocation to the small claims track, a time estimate, and a short paragraph/sentance such as "please find attached to section F a draft order containing proposed directions for the courts due consideration."

 

I don't think we'd need to actually explain why we're requesting them, but see what others think first.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi, guys

I've just had my attention drawn to this by the CAG Newsletter (so good on yer - it serves its purpose!)

Queries over (b) and ©.

 

Just to check - (b) requires the claimant (me/us) to submit copies of statements - all 258 pages of them in my case?

© - 'statement of evidence' With the wording of (d) I'm not sure what else this applies to. Is it correspondence?

 

Scuse I if oi bein thick - it comes from living in the West Country.

 

Otherwise - love it. Anything that shortens the time period is very welcome.

 

Best wishes

 

Westy

Westy

 

 

 

If you like my post, click the scales!!

 

Nov 1 2006 Preliminary letter

21 Feb 2007 - cheque arrived for charges+DEBIT interest +Statutory Interest! Hurray!

Read all about it: natwesttookmymoney - v- NatWest

DONATE AS MUCH AS YOU CAN TO KEEP THE SITE GOING.

 

What can you claim? Vampiress has a good idea:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/69877-what-can-you-claim.html

Anything I say is just a suggestion. I'm a bigmouth, not a lawyer!

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hello all

 

yes- also here( again!) due to eshot. i submitted my AQ earlier this week, should i wait until next step and can someone with a higher IQ than me please explain EXACTLY what c and d are.

 

tvm

Griff

 

LTSB- Initial charges breakdown received 07/07/06

( took me a while to get head round all this!)

Sent Prelim letter 04/08/06

Received FInal response 18/08/06

(out of UK- several weeks)

Had no money(on return!)

Moneyclaim filed 09/11/06-

acknowledge of service being filed 23/11/09

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Hi, sgriffin

(d) I think I'm OK on - it's the cases and so on in the Bundle, plus correspondence. You can find the basic court bundle in the templates library. Go through it and check it's all OK for you, you have some understanding of it and you're happy with it. Add correspondence, including any appropriate e-mails, your spreadsheets, statements and anything else that seems relevant.

 

But I'm not OK yet with (b) & ©.

Guys?

West wishes

 

Westy

Westy

 

 

 

If you like my post, click the scales!!

 

Nov 1 2006 Preliminary letter

21 Feb 2007 - cheque arrived for charges+DEBIT interest +Statutory Interest! Hurray!

Read all about it: natwesttookmymoney - v- NatWest

DONATE AS MUCH AS YOU CAN TO KEEP THE SITE GOING.

 

What can you claim? Vampiress has a good idea:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/69877-what-can-you-claim.html

Anything I say is just a suggestion. I'm a bigmouth, not a lawyer!

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Will this draft order for directions be ok to use with the N150 Allocation Questionaire? I have for some reason been sent this and not the normal N149 (even though my claim is less than £5,000).

 

In N150 they quote practice direction CPR Part 28 not CPR 18

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I included the Draft Order for Directions in my N150 AQ, with relevance to Section F and section H. I submitted my AQ to the courts on 14/12/06 and i received a letter today from Pontypool County Court to say that as a result of an order being made on the 19/12/06, the claim has now been transferred to the Cardiff County Court for hearings, I have no date for this yet.

 

On N150, CPR part 28 only applies to Fast Track and Multi Track cases.

 

Will keep my thread up to date with proceedings.

Claire

:pI'VE CLAIMED MY BARCLAYS CHARGES BACK.:p

£5125.60

Im no expert everything i write is what i learnt from my own experience and reading through other threads. Click my scales if you wish to!:)

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Comments?

This is exactly the same order i was sent by burton on trent county court by judge butler it was a civil directions template xp/2.54.

or am i a bit thick here and about to be told "der!! we all get this order" if so i appologise and walk off embaresed:oops:

SETTLED CASES

LTSB (CC) £20 21-8-06

HSBC (CC) £600 19-10-06

HSBC (Ac) No.1 £1900 25-10-06

RBS (CC) £900 25-10-06

Smile (Ac) £1300 17-11-06

A&L (Ac) No.1 £400 23-11-06

A&L (Mortgage ERC) £3900 4-12-06

LTSB (Ac) £200 13-12-06

A&L (Ac) No.2 £120 19-12-06

HSBC (Ac) No.2 £650 29-12-06

LTSB (Business) £1700 13-2-07

RBS (Ac) £4500 + Default Removal 17-3-07

Barclays (Bus) Warrant of Execution 10-3-07 not used yet

ONGOING CASES

Egg (CC) N1 Filed £1300 + Default Removal Judgment Order 9/1/07 In my Favour

Barclays Business loan & 2 accs. S.A.R N1 filed Judgment in Default isued 15/2/07

HSBC (CC) have failed to produce Credit Agreement

TO DO CASES

Egg (Loan)

LTSB (Ac Ltd Company)

LTSB (Loan)

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hi just read your eshot recieved A/Q this week bit nervous of what to do next , can i send your draft with the AQ and how to i fill this form in i really do not want to go to court , ps i sent a copy of the charges to HSBC solicitors on saturday advise please ps i have until 31/12/06 to respond

__________________________________

HSBC Full offer accepted!!£3613.39 :D

(Payment paid into bank 29/01/07)!!

_____________________

A & L offer recived in full

account threat of closure

reported to FOS 5/04/07

_____________________

Mint offer accepted in full

_____________________

Studio Pre lim sent 05/04/07

_________________

MBNA SAR sent

_______________________

Awaiting SAR doc from Creation finance

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For c) Statement of evidance see post #55 on the next page of this thread.

Please remember to DONATE! Help CAG keep up the fight!

 

 

Any advice or opinion is offered informally & without liability. Use your own judgment and if in doubt seek advice of a qualified and insured professional.

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sorry iam acting thick , i have been sent a N149 FORM does this statement relate to this or is this statement for the next step it is section G other information section i am confused with sorry never done this before

__________________________________

HSBC Full offer accepted!!£3613.39 :D

(Payment paid into bank 29/01/07)!!

_____________________

A & L offer recived in full

account threat of closure

reported to FOS 5/04/07

_____________________

Mint offer accepted in full

_____________________

Studio Pre lim sent 05/04/07

_________________

MBNA SAR sent

_______________________

Awaiting SAR doc from Creation finance

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The statement of evidance is what you will need to submit WHEN/IF the judge decides to order the directions as proposed in the draft order.

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Please remember to DONATE! Help CAG keep up the fight!

 

 

Any advice or opinion is offered informally & without liability. Use your own judgment and if in doubt seek advice of a qualified and insured professional.

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sorry iam acting thick , i have been sent a N149 FORM does this statement relate to this or is this statement for the next step it is section G other information section i am confused with sorry never done this before

 

 

Hi vicmar. I also had problems understanding this (maybe we are both thick). As I now understand this statement, it is sent along with the N149 form in section G and, in simple terms, is your respectful suggestion to the judge to how this case should proceed and what each party should be expected to do before getting to the courtroom. If the Judge, when reviewing your case, agrees with you then he/she will order each party to comply with the satement. Only then do you have to send the information in part 1 on the statement.

 

Hope this is correct, I am sure we will hear from someone if this is wrong.

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N149 and N150 are the allocation questionnaire and yes you attach this to those - and yes you give it to the judge as a little prompt for him to order those direcions, you neednt comply with the direction you give on the draft order until the judge tells you to (if he does).

 

So yes you have it perfectly correct :)

 

There you go vicmar, we are not so thick after all........

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I've got to submit my AQ by Jan 2nd. I'm interested in using this but I'm curious as to why Bookworm says that claimants should be very careful with their schedule, particularly if claiming contractual interest, which I am. All details of my case are in my thread on the Abbey forum.

Also, would I be right in thinking that the material this is requesting is the same as the Court Bundle? Thanks

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