Form k Restrictions on 2 different properties - one RE: HMRC Business vat CCJ 2012 - 1 property sold OK 1 to go!

[ohitsonlyme]

I divorced 15 years ago and own 2 properties with my ex wife who is and has been bedridden for 10 years. I live in property1 she lives in property 2

She needs to move house to a more suitable accommodation

She had 2 form k restrictions added to her beneficial interest both properties following CCJ gained by her divorce solicitors and HMRC  Unknown values but likely to be over £10k on each.

She has not had any comms with either for many years

We now have a sale going through on property 1 

This will release a substantial amount of equity to her, but will notify both creditors that we understand the form k restriction guidance

Once property 1 is sold we intend to sell the property 2 that she lives in  after she moves out

What actions can she take to avoid the creditors taking action on either the proceeds from sale 1 or enforcement on sale of Property 2

Onlyme again

[honeybee13]

Hi.

 

I expect people will be along to advise later.

 

I know I'm being pedantic but can I just doublecheck please that both properties are in joint names and the Restriction Ks are just in your wife's name? This could help you I believe, but you need the experts to have a look.

 

HB

[AndyOrch]

Topic moved to General Legal Issues forum.

[dx100uk]

she does not need to do anything.

the rest k's cannot harm her. 

all that should happen is the buyers sols write to the rest k holders simply saying the property has sold. though luck.

all that normally happens is it simply gets removed by land registry when they get informed of the successful sale/deeds update by the buyers sols

[ohitsonlyme]

Both properties in joint names both have form k restrictions from same sources

My query is:

once sale of property 1 goes through it will notify creditors who hold restriction on property 2 

What can they do , what should she do to negotiate or ignore??

Can the OC change the restriction?

can they pursue for settlement knowing that cash that she has received funds from property 1

[dx100uk]

nothing, ignore.

no they can't

no, ......

 

once any property is SOLD the restriction k vanishes dead gone parrot.( it NEVER WAS ANY GOOD on a jointy owned property in the 1st place!!)

[ohitsonlyme]

Are the old CCJ unable to be enforced with further action through the courts as they havnt been pursued for 15 years and any action unlikely to be given due to the length of time passed

Me again

[unclebulgaria67]

Well the HMRC debt may still be pursued, as no doubt they could collect the debt by deducting from benefits ?  Not sure if the previous action would prevent this. Debts owed to Government don't expire as such.

 

 

[ohitsonlyme]

Both will still have security on property 2 until that is sold I suppose they may try to shore up the restriction in someway inorder to stop the same happening on property 2

 

[dx100uk]

no they cant, a rest k is useless it is not security and cant be 'changed' to anything.

HMRC dont get CCJ's there no need too.

if you have an issue with an existing restriction k please type out the text for it from the deeds via the land registry site.gov only mind!! the others charge scam fees.

[ohitsonlyme]

HMRC Did obtain a ccj and gain an interim charging order

Wording on both form k restrictions are standard ie not varied at all

[dx100uk]

Ok ..

Well they didn't need to do that nor the rest k as HMRC debts don't expire. Weird 

So this isn't really about the sales, it's what HMRC want to do to get their £ of flesh 

What were these HMRC debts?

Dx

[ohitsonlyme]

They were debts due for a hair dressing salon that she ran very badly. 

What can they or the solicitor company do once restriction 1 is gone ?? 

they will still have the restriction on property 2 but will be aware that a sale can go through without paying the CCJ

I am as always trying to pre-empt possible issues.

[dx100uk]

Debts for what to HMRC , it might be the key here  

But the fact is they won't get any money out of the sale via the rest k 

When were theses  ccj's and did she not attempt to defend them?

Dx

[ohitsonlyme]

Debts relating to HMRC are for business tax 

She closed a business but wasnt very savvy 

She bought a small hair salon, didnt realise that vat was payable , closed the business and got a bill after losing a fortune actually buying the business

CCJ was granted in January 2012 she hasnt heard anything for years and is bedridden so I think she was regarded as vulnerable with no income.

Other CCJ was 2010 from her divorce solicitors who totally saw her coming we owned several properties my divorce bill was £2,000 hers in the order of 15k and rising

Both HMRC and solicitors have restrictions on both of our jointly owned properties that we are now selling due to her illness

[dx100uk]

forget the divorce one, 

and im pretty sure the hmrc can't enforce a business vat debt further either.

but was she sole trader or ltd co.?

 

id just forget about them and sell and go start a new life,

t

[ohitsonlyme]

thank you for your replies dx 

she was a sole trader

[dx100uk]

ok thats explains why they went ccj route then

 

Fact Sheet - VAT | VAT debt | Business Debtline | Business Debtline

BUSINESSDEBTLINE.ORG

 

 

i dont think there much more they will want to do the ccj is +11yrs? old too.

 

read me

 

dx

 

[unclebulgaria67]

Agree that HMRC could not deduct a VAT debt from benefits.

 

Deductions from benefits would be for matters such as overpayment of tax credits.

[dx100uk]

scroll down to the CCJ section.

 

Fact Sheet - VAT | VAT debt | Business Debtline | Business Debtline

BUSINESSDEBTLINE.ORG

 

[ohitsonlyme]

I think she is going to get some grief from  HMRC 

I found my copies of the restriction today and the debt she had with them got a ccj for £27k attached to it.

I dont know if interest is added at 8% and she hasnt got  any other information

I cant see them letting her get away with it but dont know what further action can be taken by them.

Any thoughts on what other actions HMRC can take??

[dx100uk]

Read that arcticle

[ohitsonlyme]

Judgment summons

If you do not pay what is ordered on a CCJ, HMRC can ask the court to issue a ‘judgment summons’.

This orders you to go to court and explain why you have not paid.

You can be sent to prison if you have (or have had) the money to pay the amount shown on the judgment summons and have wilfully neglected or refused to pay as the court ordered.

Although this power exists, it is not currently being used by HMRC.

I think she needs to get specialist advice on how to negotiate.

She has been bed ridden for many years and is often "not with it" due to medication

It looks likely she will need to pay HMRC from the first property sale

[dx100uk]

They got judgement 11yrs ago!! 

Can't do it again . The rest k dies with the sale. If they wanted the money they'd have done something in 12yrs.

 

IMHO she simply shuts up, they can't get blood out of a stone .

[ohitsonlyme]

I understand what you are saying and how difficult it is to go back to court for further enforcement after 12 years and having had a rest k

Surely when they find out that she has had a chunk of money they willl consider other options -Stat demand? or HMRC  bailiffs ??  or???