Taking Ebay UK to court over item sold and then ebay returns money to buyer

[frustrated1972]

Hi Forum,

This is my first post.

On the 12th June 2022 I sold a Jaeger Lecoultre ‘Compass’ Camera to an Ebay buyer in Australia for the amount of £2500.

The buyer paid through Ebay payments on the 12th June, the total amount of £2519 which included the charge to send the Camera to Australia.

The description on Ebay of the camera was added to whilst the auction was running which answered some questions I had received -

‘To answer some questions.
The Lens barrels do fully open and lock as required
The Spirit level is complete and working
The Filters and Stops all work.
The only thing I have been unable to do is to get the shutter to work.
I don’t know if I’m doing it correctly or if it needs a bit of work.
I have wound the wheel that works the shutter and it does ‘wind up’.

The Camera was sent to the buyer in Australia and was received by him soon after.

 

On the 3rd July 2022 I received a message from the buyer saying he had received the camera but was not happy with the fact that the shutter was not working correctly, he considered it a major fault and asked if I had any suggestions to rectify the problem.

 

I replied to his message informing him that the shutter issue was mentioned in the description, to which he replied on the 5th July that he ‘didn’t see the additional description’.

 

He offered to get the camera looked at by his camera repairer or post it back for a full refund.

 

At this point I was not prepared to offer him a refund as I had mentioned the issues with the camera clearly, and he had admitted ‘not reading the description‘.

I suggested he contact Ebay and go through the process of resolution.  I have had no further contact with the buyer.

 

On the 13th July 2022, 15:46, I received a message from Ebay informing me that Ebay were ‘stepping in’ to resolve the return, and that Ebay were going to take a look at the case.   

 

On the 13th July at 16:44 I received a message from Ebay, what I assume is a standard email explaining what happens when a buyer ‘receives the wrong item, it arrives damaged or doesn’t match the items description‘, None of which apply to this item.

 

Ebay stated in that message that you were placing the request on hold for four days to ‘give me time to arrange return shipping with the buyer’.

 

I contacted eBay straight away and spoke to a representative outlining my concerns and also that I had done nothing wrong with regards to mis-selling or misdescribing this camera.   

 

The representative implied that she understood my concerns and that Ebay would listen to them.

 

At 16:46 on the same day I received another message from Ebay telling me that the case was ‘temporarily placed on hold’ and that they would get back to me with an update by 18th July 2022.  

 

At this stage as unhappy as I was, I had assumed that you were going to give me a chance at least to explain this case to somebody in Ebay and therefore I did as they said and waited for them to get in touch by the 18th July.

 

I heard nothing more from Ebay until the 20th July when I received a message saying the ‘case is now closed’ and that Ebay had issued the buyer with a full refund of £2519'.

 

At no point from the 18th July, to 20th July was I contacted by Ebay.   

 

When I did receive the message that you had refunded him I was completely at a loss with knowing what to do.    I contacted Ebay and was put in touch with the High Value Claims Department.    I spoke to a representative who told me that as I had not sent a label back to the buyer for return postage, the case had been closed.   Ebay also told me there was nothing more that they could do and that their ‘hands were tied’ with regards to this case.

Ebay suggested that I send the buyer a return label, which would have cost me £20 or so, and that hopefully he might return it.   I was not prepared to lose anymore money on the off chance he might or might not decide to return it.

 

Ebay suggested that I try messaging him to see if he would return it, they said if I had no response from him, then Ebay might try messaging the buyer.  He did not respond and therefore  nothing more Ebay could  do.   Ebay  also told me that as he had a good record, then they had no reason to believe he was acting unscrupulously.

 

I have messaged the buyer in Australia three times, and have had no response from him.   My view being that he’s very happy to have kept the camera and to have had his money handed back to him, with no intention of returning it.

 

That, I hope outlines, what has happened.

 

At no point during this process have I had the opportunity to argue against this outcome.   Ebay has not listened to my concerns and I am disgusted by the way Ebay have refused to get involved.  

 

Ebay have allowed the buyer to keep the camera and have returned him his money.

 

I consider the timeline of messaging to have been confusing and unclear.    Had I not received your message informing me of the case going on hold, then I would have, ‘under protest’, sent a return label back.

 

 

I have now initiated a small claim against Ebay and, and they have passed it on to a solicitor in Plymouth.

 

The solicitor has sent me a huge email with various pages of legal jargon which I do not understand at all.

 

Does anyone here think I have a chance in taking on the Ebay overlords?

 

Thank you anyone.....

 

[BankFodder]

Well it's not really a question of whether you have a chance – because you have gone ahead and issued the claim.

Please will you post up your letter of claim and also a copy of the claim form here in PDF format.

Single file multipage

[BankFodder]

Also, where was the money when they seized it back?

[frustrated1972]

Hi.

Ebay took £1361.15 out of my bank account, the remainder was taken from the sales I had made through Ebay.

Forgive me but I dont know where I find the 'letter of claim', or the 'claim form'.    

Are these to be found on the small claim site I registered?

 

[BankFodder]

Well you have told us that you have begun a court claim against them .

 

In order to have done this, you must have sent them a letter of claim giving them 14 days notice.

 

You have this you a claim and there must be a claim form

 

 

[frustrated1972]

claimform

 

 

claimform.pdf

[BankFodder]

Thank you. Did you send them a letter of claim?

You say that you have received documents from the solicitors. Have you received a defence ?

 

If you have received the defence then please could you post that up here as well in PDF format .

 

Incidentally, you should really redact these documents for personal identifiers before posting them up

 

 

 

[frustrated1972]

defence filed by ebay

defence.pdf

[BankFodder]

They say that you did send the letter of claim so I would like to see it please.

I'm not sure why this poses a difficulty for you. Surely you have got a file of the documents relating to this case?

Are you a private trader or a commercial trader?

Have you contacted your bank and challenge the withdrawal of funds from it by eBay?

[frustrated1972]

I am private seller on Ebay.  

 

Im not trying to be difficult but I dont know what you mean by 'letter of claim'.

 

Do you mean the initial letter that I sent to ebay informing them of my intention to take them to court?

 

I have not tried to get the payment reversed from the bank, as that still leave a substantial amount they took from my seller account

[BankFodder]

yes

[BankFodder]

It is important that you contact your bank and tell them that there has been an unauthorised withdrawal by eBay.

It won't prejudice the rest of the outstanding balance and also if you are able to get the money back it will reduce the sum that you are claiming.

Don't expect you to be easy with your bank. You should have done it ages ago. Don't expect the bank to want to be helpful but you must be insistent. It is your account. It is your money. You are the client of the bank and they must take instructions from you.

They will contact eBay and they will try to come back to you and say that you have authorised eBay. You must tell your bank that it is a civil court matter subject to litigation and the money is yours.

If the bank still causes the problem then you must begin a complaint to the financial ombudsman service.

I'm going to say now that although it's a good thing to have begun action on this, to have done so without informing yourself and to understand exactly what you've been doing was not a good idea

[fkofilee]

Was the amount taken by Direct Debit from your account? 

[BankFodder]

Also, you have referred in one of your responses that eBay money from an account which was comprised of money which you had received from sales.
Does this mean that you are regularly selling things through eBay?

 

In fact I have just checked your eBay account – and it's clear that you're not a private seller.

I'm not completely certain what significance this might have for your claim it's important we have a very clear and straightforward view of the situation

[frustrated1972]

I am a personal seller, not a business account although I fail to see how that in any way matters with the way Ebay have acted.

How is it fair that they have allowed a buyer to keep the goods and give him his money?  

I do sell items on ebay regularly.

I will contact my bank and see if they are prepared to help.

 

I also dont know if it was DD from my account, I am not sure what authorisation you need to give ebay to have an account

[BankFodder]

I'm sorry but you are not a personal seller. Simply because you don't appear to have a company or that you are a full-time trader doesn't mean that you are not trading as a business.

You are obtaining these items and selling them at a profit on eBay.
Unless you would like to tell us that this is your own personal collection that you are now reducing it.

When you contact your bank, please don't take the supplicant attitude that you are going to "see if they are prepared to help". If you take that attitude then they won't help.
You have to be assertive.

In terms of the claim which you have served, it seems to me to be very clearly expressed. In terms of the defence which has been filed in response, they are simply playing a game. It is clear your claim is coherent and that they understand the issues otherwise they would not been able to put together a defence which addresses all points.

The only slight difficulties that you have identified your defendant correctly and that you haven't stated that it was a limited company. However, it is clear from the defence that they have fully understood who the defendant is.
They have knowledge of the claim and I think that it is simply a technical defect on your part and in the end causing problems.

However, it shows a lack of preparation on your part.

Have you had some help in preparing that claim?

Contact your bank tomorrow as a matter of urgency. As I say, it should have happened ages ago and it is unhelpful to you that you have allowed it to go so long.
Before you contact the bank, read our customer services guide.

[frustrated1972]

Hi

I have not had any advice at all.  

The reason I have let it drag for so long is that I have had a lot of correspondence with Ebay n the hope they would see sense.   That was why I did not contact my bank.

I have no knowledge of the legal issues, and also what I should or should not have done.

I was left with the only option being small claims as I assumed they were there for low value claims without the need for a solicitor.

Thank you for your help and I guess the fight still goes on.

Regards

P

[BankFodder]

Well in that case, without advice your claim form is pretty good.

That may be the reason that you didn't contact your bank earlier, but I'm afraid that you haven't helped yourself. It should have been done.

Contact your bank and then let us know what happens.

It may be worth drafting a response to the defence but we will see.

The next stage will be a directions questionnaire and you will be asked if you are prepared to go to mediation. I suggest that the answer should be yes.

Keep us informed – but let us know what the bank says first.

[BankFodder]

On the question asked by my site team colleague as to whether or not the deduction from your bank was not the basis of a direct debit, this is an important question and you need to find out.
The shame that you have been dealing in collectible items at least since 2019 and you are not certain of these very basic business arrangements.
When you contact your bank, the first thing to do is to ascertain that this was a direct debit.

If the answer is that yes it is a direct debit – a variable direct debit – then you need to tell the bank that eBay have breached the direct debit guarantee and you are making your claim based on that.

If you have access to Internet banking then you will probably find somewhere a list of your direct debits and you will soon see if one of them is made in favour of eBay.
Also if you check the withdrawal on your bank statement that it may well refer to the direct debit.

If it is on face of a direct debit – and it is most likely that it is – then you are in a fairly powerful position as I have already said, if you going there on your knees they will probably treat you accordingly.

[frustrated1972]

I just checked and the payment to Ebay is listed as a Direct Debit.

I will call my bank tomorrow

[Manxman in exile]

@frustrated1972 - your personal details are still visible on the claim form at #6... 

[BankFodder]

27 minutes ago, frustrated1972 said:

I just checked and the payment to Ebay is listed as a Direct Debit.

I will call my bank tomorrow

 

Have a look at the direct debit guarantee and understand exactly what it means and what it promises .

Your challenge to the withdrawal by eBay is on the basis of the conditions in the direct debit guarantee .

Don't forget to be assertive. Of course that doesn't mean rude, but it means that you stand your ground.

 

I hope you have read our customer services guide and that you will allow that to inform you in your dealing with the bank tomorrow

 

 

 

[dx100uk]

coor what a result..

 

i was a bit worried upon success here until the great members here got you to check if it was a DD to PP>

 

go get that moneyback you lost via DD, they just cant do that.

 

now you say you lost EBAY balance too, as you were using your ebay account to store sales profit? bad idea ! never do that in the future.

 

 

dx

 

[dx100uk]

ive hidden you 2 pdf files as they are totally unredacted .

 

you'll get every pranker under the sun trying to scam you if we leave up and we are breaking GDPR rules 1 think too !!

 

TBH: i think you've been scammed here by the buyer, that miht be something to introduce later in the claim process...but you could have a hard time in getting that moneyback from ebay.

though i think? we have a win here already @BankFodder will know i'm sure.

[BankFodder]

39 minutes ago, dx100uk said:

 

though i think? we have a win here already @BankFodder will know i'm sure.

I wish I could be sure. I am struggling to get a bead on it but maybe after a night's sleep I will see you the way through.