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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
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UKPC/BW windscreen PCN PAPLOC now claimform - appeal+IPC both refused - 325 Greenford Rd, Greenford **Claim Discontinued**


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Hi there, 

I'd really appreciate some advice about my case:

A Notice to Keeper was received from UK Parking Patrol office LTD dated chasing me for an unpaid parking charge of £100. 

The driver had received a ticket to windscreen a few weeks earlier but ignored it.

It was parked on a forecourt in front of a row of shops. They went into one shop for 15 mins and came back to a parking charge notice on the windscreen. Apparently the forecourt only belongs to one of the shops on the forecourt solely.

The driver went into the land owner's shop on the day and explained the situation. They said "oh if you had come in and let us know you were a customer of next door we would have stop the ticket from being issued."

Hindsight is a wonderful thing and £100 seemed really unjustified for an honest mistake.

I've attached the sign below  - it mentions a permit but this is not accurate, any customer of the landowner shop can park while shopping but it wasn't clear who that was. 

I noted that the ticket placed on the windscreen was issued at "2:45pm" however the notice to keeper stated that the contravention took place at 02:45. Bit of a technicality but this implies 2am not 2pm,

I decided to appeal saying that the alleged contravention did not take place as my car was parked on my drive overnight between 2-3am. As I responded outside of the 21 day appeal period they just ignored my appeal. 

When Debt recovery Plus (DRP) started to hound me, I explained to them that I was appealing the case. They put my case on hold for a couple of weeks but then started to hound me again after they checked the date of my appeal and said I had no right to appeal and demanded payment immediately.

I have ignored their letters which appear to be deliberately scaremongering. Last conversation I had with them I said that I didn't feel the PCN was justified and if they recommended court action then so be it.

I was certain that UKPC owed me a response to the representations made as the IPC code of conduct of states:
 

- members internal procedures should allow for appeals to be made outside of the initial time period in exceptional circumstances.
 
- Recipients of a parking charge should be allowed to make representations regarding the issue of that parking charge
 
-These representations should be appropriately responded to within 28 days.

I appealed to the IPC who rejected the complaint saying that I the keeper was only notified of the charge after the appeal period and I suspected the alleged contravention did not take place, my appeal should be considered. The IPC responded saying that:

1) UKPC have shown them photographs of the ticket being placed on the windscreen (I have not seen these, nor do they comment on the time they were taken)

2) My appeal went into UKPC's junk folder and they have an automated message saying the appeals inbox is not manned (this is untrue; at the time I sent the appeal to [email protected] - no message was returned to me but they have recently added this automated message.

My questions are:

1) What should my next course of action be?  Wait and see if UKPC issues a CCJ?  (I don't want bad credit but I guess I would pay if it come  to this -  to avoid it on my credit file)

2) Should I follow up with the IPC or UKPC directly and ask for the photographic evidence?  (photos certainly would have been taken at 14:45 and not 02:45 as stated on the NTK)
 
3) Give up and just set up a payment plan with DRP? 
 
4) Anyone been in a similar position
- does UKPC give up eventually?
What are my chances in court? (really don't want a CCJ on file for 6 years)

Thank you in advance for your advice and guidance!
 

parking sign .pdf

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Hi Bunny,

 

Could you please follow the instructions in this sticky please?

It'll help the guys to advise you further...

 

We could do with some help from you.

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  • dx100uk changed the title to UKPC/PARKING PATROL LTD UK windscreen PCN - appeal+IPC both refused - now DR+

Thanks @Nicky Boy

 


  •  

 

For a windscreen ticket (Notice To Driver) 

 

1 The date of infringement? 7th July 22
 

2 Have you yet appealed to the parking company yet? Y (however outside of 21 day appeal period after NTK received - no response)

 

Has there been a response? No

 

Have you received a Notice To Keeper? (NTK) [must be received by you between 29-56 days] Y
 

What date is on it? 10th of August 22 

Did the NTK provide photographic evidence? No (see post above, IPC complaint response mentions they have photos of ticket on windscreen but I have not seen these)

 

3 Did the NTK mention Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) [Y/N?] N
 

4 If you appealed after receiving the NTK,

did the parking company give you any information regarding the further appeals process?

[it is well known that parking companies will reject any appeal whatever the circumstances] Y on NTK it says appeals can be considered outside of the initial 21 day period in exceptional circumstances, no further details given.
 

5 Who is the parking company? Parking Patrol LTD UK
 

6. Where exactly [Carpark name and town] did you park? Private car park 325 Greenford Rd, Greenford

 

Parking Appeal 12:8:22.pdf IPC complaint response.pdf

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bothsides of the NTK please and the windscreen tickets too

one mass PDF is OK

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • dx100uk changed the title to UKPC/PARKING PATROL LTD UK windscreen PCN - appeal+IPC both refused - now DR+ - Private car park 325 Greenford Rd, Greenford

Well you've done just about everything wrong so far, but hey that's just normal if you've never been in that situation before.

 

But don't worry, nothing fatal, we can help you bat this away.

 

Work calls now but I promise to reply properly late this evening. 

 

Regarding a CCJ.  CCJs are used to punish people who defy court judgements.  The only way you could get a CCJ is if the parking company sent you a formal Letter of Claim, then started a court case, then won the court case, and you defied the court and refused to pay.  Then you would get a CCJ.  Even on the very, very, very, very, very few occasions Caggers lose in court, as long as payment is made within 30 days of being ordered by the court there is no CCJ.  

 

More later but in the meantime as dx says can you please upload the fleecers' invoice, this is vital info we need to see.

 

 

We could do with some help from you.

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Oh, glad to hear it not fatal! 

Thank you for the advice regarding CCJ's @FTMDave really helpful!

 

I've attached the tickets as advised by yourself and @dx100uk. Unfortunately file is too big to upload as a pdf document.

 

Here are links to the documents:

 

1. Windscreen ticket

2. Notice to Keeper
Greatly appreciate your time and advice

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The time they quote on that NTK are confusing  for sure 03:45 and at 17:19

Shame you outed youself as driver but its not fatal.

We could do with some help from you.

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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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Hi @brassnecked

Thanks for taking a look. 1719 is the parking location number. 

They definitely have my details as the keeper via the DVLA. Unfortunately I added insult to injury by confirming my email address etc. However, I have maintained the position that I am the registered owner of the vehicle and was only made aware of the contravention when the NTK arrived. I chosen not to name the driver of the vehicle as they are a relative and I don't want them to be hounded either.

 

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Something you really need to do now is tell them you will no longer receive communications via email... only post.

Leave them in no doubt that they are not to send you any further emails. 

Do it by email and confirm by 2nd Class letter. 

Get free proof of postage from the post office and file it away.

 

Also educate yourself by reading other threads, so you get a good idea about the vampires and what to expect from them.

We could do with some help from you.

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Agree with Nicky Boy you must inform them you cannot take any info off them by email post only, send it in a letter with free proof of posting, also we do not recommend linking to documents on an external site, as can be accessed by anyone whereas an uploaded pdf can only be read by Registered logged in Cagger's I would have edited the pdf's to reduce the size for you  but they are read only.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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For future reference, the private parking companies never, ever, ever accept appeals - ever.

 

Do you know the history of the iAS?  Once upon a time there was only one parking association, the British Parking Association, which had an appeals body that sometimes accepted motorists' appeals, to the chagrin of the worst of the companies.  Spotting a hole in the market, a pair of solicitors who handled parking court cases set up a rival trade association the IPC and its appeals body, the IAS.  Yes, the trade association, the body motorists appeal to and the firm of solicitors who cash in are all run by the same people.  No conflict of interest there!  That's who you're dealing with.  If you had complete proof that you were in prison in Australia at the time of the "offence" and the car was scrapped 25 years ago, the IAS would still find a way to reject your appeal. 

 

That's why we always say never to appeal.  It gets you nowhere and most people who appeal out themselves as the driver.

 

Debt Recovery Plus are an uninterested third party with no power to do anything save write silly letters.

 

The fleecers have sent out their paperwork in accordance with the timescales of POFA 2012 to establish keeper liability.  So far so bad but ...

 

I've searched for threads on this company on CAG and we have no record of them ever having the gonads to take a motorist to court.

 

The windscreen ticket is nonsense.  "Illegally parked".  That means you were committing a crime.  What exactly?  Were you selling packets of cocaine from your boot?  Were you parked on top of the pedestrian you had deliberately run over?  it's a nonsense.

 

The signage is unclear as you say.

 

You didn't out yourself as the driver!  Well done.

 

You were denied the right of appeal in breach of the industry code of practice.

 

Ignore the fleecers now, but be sure to come back here if they ever do send you a Letter Before Action/Letter Before Claim.

Edited by FTMDave
Self-censoring
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We could do with some help from you.

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7 hours ago, BUNNY36 said:

The driver went into the land owner's shop on the day and explained the situation. They said "oh if you had come in and let us know you were a customer of next door we would have stop the ticket from being issued."

The landowner is the organ grinder.  UK Parking Control Office are the monkey.  At any time the landowner can call their dogs off.  The driver should go back, remind the landowner of the conversation and demand they get the ticket cancelled.

  • Like 1

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

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@FTMDave Incredibly helpful thank you very much for taking the time give such a detailed response!

I've learned a lot from this, as you've all said I've made a few mistakes as a newbie that I hope to never make again.

@Nicky Boy and @brassnecked can I understand a bit more about the reason for writing to them about not accepting further emails? They have never emailed me directly. However, I did send my appeal to their appeals inbox (which they never acknowledged) from my email address. I'm not keen to make any further contact with them unless absolutely needed. 

Thank again all, really helped to make things much clearer.

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the reason you never use email is if the numpties tried court, their solicitor's might send legal documents at  12:59:59 hours  the day before a court hearing and there is then no time to respond.

  • Like 1

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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I am having a problem opening your PCNs. I have gmail and google drive but google is not allowing me to open them. Can you please help. Those tickets if they are not compliant then you as keeper are not responsible for the alleged debt. So if you were not the driver you would be totally off the hook and there would be no need to out the driver either.

 

Just to confirm something you said in an earlier post.  That the car park requires a Permit yet only one shop  has all the parking spaces?

Could you also please get legible photos of the signs at the car park including  the one at the entrance if there is one.

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Another reason for no emails is that it removes an easy method for them to harass you. Make things as awkward as possible, be a pain in the neck, show that you're not going to be an easy target.

  • Like 1

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group The National Consumer Service

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no the main reason is :

IF IF IF this ever gets to court, they WILL exploit you and file important documents 1 min before any court deadline removing your opportunity to tear them apart .

 

send ONE further Email in reply to their, stating this email is not to be used for anything moving forward concerning our mutual exchanges. all further comms MUST be sent in WRITING ONLY by Royal Mail.

 

dx

  • Like 1

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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42 minutes ago, lookinforinfo said:

I am having a problem opening your PCNs.

the OP has correctly disabled the public link to the google drive files.

 

 

 

 

  • Like 1

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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@lookinforinforeally sorry about that  - I disabled the links as I was advised probably not best to have them on here. I've attached the pdf's below. 

 

@dx100uk and @Nicky Boy that makes sense, thank you. I'll take your advice and write and letter proof with of postage. 

 

and thank you @brassnecked too!

 

@lookinforinfoI've also given access to the drive as the resolution of the small file size is not great!

 

@lookinforinfo I can go back and get a clearer picture of the sign if needed. I've made the one I have a bit bigger and also uploaded a picture of the forecourt. There are 3 shops along there, a deli, the plumbing shop (landowner) and car show room. The driver was visiting the car showroom and parked in the empty space you can see in the picture.

 

 

merged pdfs (1).pdf

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Thanks for the PDF.  The Google Maps image makes things even clearer.  The area looks like one continuous car park to any visitor. 

 

What you have going for you.

 

1.  UK Parking Patrol Office seem to be a small company that don't do court much (of course they might start!)

 

2.  You weren't the driver.

 

3.  The PCN is pants with its "Illegally parked".

 

4.  The signs are pants.  No sign when entering the car park as there's nowhere to put one.  Two small signs away from the door that could be easily missed (and were).  Even if they were seen they witter on about a permit which doesn't exist.

 

5.  The government Code of Practice states that when car parks are adjacent the boundary must be clearly shown.

 

6.  Mitigation.  A party is supposed to avoid legal action if necessary.  The only way the PPC's bod can have known the driver wasn't a customer of the bath & shower showroom is if they saw the driver going into the car showroom.  They could easily have asked the driver to move and freed a space up for the landowner's customers but did none of that.

 

7.  You're right, 03:45 is three o'clock in the morning, 15:45 is three in the afternoon.

 

8.  You were denied the right to appeal due to the incompetence of the company in not checking its e-mails properly.

Greenford Road.pdf

Edited by FTMDave
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So ignore any deforestation the fleecers do now, but never ignore a Letter Before Claim.

 

Re post 14: is there any reason the driver won't do this?  There could be an easy way to instantly bat this off.

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Just out of interest, the address on their paperwork "325 Greenford Road" doesn't seem to actually exist?

 

Even the OP's own photograph shows this.

323 > GAP > 327

 

And Google can't seem to find it...

 

So, the "No Unauthorised Parking" sign looks like an entry sign, for what appears to be a car park at the rear, through the "gap".

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That sign does look dodgy shame e can't read it, 325 might be premises set back down the alley

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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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