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    • Calm Down please.... there is only one way to deal with this and that is - PROPERLY. Being surrounded by 'lawyers' who deal with 'disputes', just like going to the likes of CAB, in this instance has, most probably, to date,  sadly not helping you here. Such people always project an Aura of confidence, when the truth is they don't actually have the vast successful experience of the members here in dealing with the likes BMW. there are over 350 threads here . as far i gather this is the situation, In April, a car was purchased by your son from BMW. Finance taken out to purchase it has since been paid in full, as well as full payment for an annual Insurance policy. within 6 weeks, it was discovered and confirmed in writing, via a report from a local garage, that the car indeed had numerous performance modifications undertaken. Namely being remapped and with modifications to the exhaust system. having contacted his ins co, they require a further £5k to uprate his policy, without it renders the existing insurance policy invalid, thus the car is not being driven.  again within this 6 weeks, you wrote to BMW rejecting the car (we need to see this letter please. scan it up to PDF, please read our UPLOAD guide). at first BMW were onboard, even sending their own inspector, confirming the mods etc. but in the last 9 days since said inspection, comms have now gone dead. .................. you have 2 options - 1 - allow BMW to sort the car FOC and without hassle to him, but probably within their own snails pace timeframe. 2- EVENTUALLY bring legal action - this would most probably be under contract law, not a claim under the consumer rights act . (as financially you would lose out big time) to do 2. which is not easy and rather complex to calculate the financial sum involved...... we need all the info @BankFodder has requested. of many, but one good reason for this is say for this new mot, show the old one was suspect, good bargaining chip against 2500mls usage deductions... your call but you need to do this properly or not at all...............    
    • Hi, I've been reading through many of the stories in the sub-forum and I understand the process to be to send a Letter of Claim to the EVRi - in the post and to their customer support email and to sign up for MCOL.  I have looked at the various Letters of Claim and the MCOL claim forms - particulars of claim and I have gone through all of the screens on MCOL website to put in the final details so it is ready to go after the 14 days from when I send the Letter of Claim (of course assuming that EVRi dismisses my Letter of Claim to pay me in full!).  I also see the advise is to decline any mediation particularly because I have specified the parcel contents and value to EVRi when shipping it. I have put both the Letter of Claim and the forms from the MCOL particulars of claim into a single PDF for review.  The stories in the sub-forum often indicate people shipping with EVRi but some purchase through or have involved such companies as Parcel2Go and so I wasn't sure about the statement I made in the Letter of Claim if it was totally accurate to say "I am applying my third party rights under the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999"? I just wanted to confirm the correct wording.  In my case the parcel shipment was paid for on the EVRi website and sent at the Tesco EVRi Parcelshop.  On the MCOL claim form I have referenced Section 57 of the Consumer Rights Act 2015 in response to EVRi customer service hiding behind their lack of ability to insure delivery of laptops and their bogus non-compensated and prohibited items as a means to avoid any responsibility for them losing such items. Thank you for taking a look to see if there are any inaccuracies or amendments to the Letter of Claim - when it is looking good I will send via email and post it to EVRi.  Having drafted the particulars of the claim on MCOL, I shall be ready to submit the claim on the MCOL site when the 14 day period has elapsed and proceed from there.   Thanks for everyone's help! Letter of claim and MCOL Particulars of Claim.pdf
    • Wow quite surprised by your response in all honesty as I can’t see where you have requested details of the car. The car is insured and that was budgeted for and paid in full, the increase of £5k is because of the modifications, which no we didn’t budget for as we didn’t plan to buy a modified car, so no that doesn’t form any part of wanting to return the car, perhaps you don’t understand the impact modifications have on insurance premiums? Thanks for your help so far but feel going the legal route probably suits us better.
    • new thread created for the court claims. please complete this twice and i'll make another thread from the 2nd PDL Claimform we need to keep them sep.  
    • Most banks do not have any customer service staff available to support those opening a new current or savings account, according to research for Investec Bank.View the full article
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    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
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    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
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    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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UKPC/BW windscreen PCN PAPLOC now claimform - appeal+IPC both refused - 325 Greenford Rd, Greenford **Claim Discontinued**


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Hi there, 

I'd really appreciate some advice about my case:

A Notice to Keeper was received from UK Parking Patrol office LTD dated chasing me for an unpaid parking charge of £100. 

The driver had received a ticket to windscreen a few weeks earlier but ignored it.

It was parked on a forecourt in front of a row of shops. They went into one shop for 15 mins and came back to a parking charge notice on the windscreen. Apparently the forecourt only belongs to one of the shops on the forecourt solely.

The driver went into the land owner's shop on the day and explained the situation. They said "oh if you had come in and let us know you were a customer of next door we would have stop the ticket from being issued."

Hindsight is a wonderful thing and £100 seemed really unjustified for an honest mistake.

I've attached the sign below  - it mentions a permit but this is not accurate, any customer of the landowner shop can park while shopping but it wasn't clear who that was. 

I noted that the ticket placed on the windscreen was issued at "2:45pm" however the notice to keeper stated that the contravention took place at 02:45. Bit of a technicality but this implies 2am not 2pm,

I decided to appeal saying that the alleged contravention did not take place as my car was parked on my drive overnight between 2-3am. As I responded outside of the 21 day appeal period they just ignored my appeal. 

When Debt recovery Plus (DRP) started to hound me, I explained to them that I was appealing the case. They put my case on hold for a couple of weeks but then started to hound me again after they checked the date of my appeal and said I had no right to appeal and demanded payment immediately.

I have ignored their letters which appear to be deliberately scaremongering. Last conversation I had with them I said that I didn't feel the PCN was justified and if they recommended court action then so be it.

I was certain that UKPC owed me a response to the representations made as the IPC code of conduct of states:
 

- members internal procedures should allow for appeals to be made outside of the initial time period in exceptional circumstances.
 
- Recipients of a parking charge should be allowed to make representations regarding the issue of that parking charge
 
-These representations should be appropriately responded to within 28 days.

I appealed to the IPC who rejected the complaint saying that I the keeper was only notified of the charge after the appeal period and I suspected the alleged contravention did not take place, my appeal should be considered. The IPC responded saying that:

1) UKPC have shown them photographs of the ticket being placed on the windscreen (I have not seen these, nor do they comment on the time they were taken)

2) My appeal went into UKPC's junk folder and they have an automated message saying the appeals inbox is not manned (this is untrue; at the time I sent the appeal to appeals@parking-tickets.co.uk - no message was returned to me but they have recently added this automated message.

My questions are:

1) What should my next course of action be?  Wait and see if UKPC issues a CCJ?  (I don't want bad credit but I guess I would pay if it come  to this -  to avoid it on my credit file)

2) Should I follow up with the IPC or UKPC directly and ask for the photographic evidence?  (photos certainly would have been taken at 14:45 and not 02:45 as stated on the NTK)
 
3) Give up and just set up a payment plan with DRP? 
 
4) Anyone been in a similar position
- does UKPC give up eventually?
What are my chances in court? (really don't want a CCJ on file for 6 years)

Thank you in advance for your advice and guidance!
 

parking sign .pdf

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Hi Bunny,

 

Could you please follow the instructions in this sticky please?

It'll help the guys to advise you further...

 

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

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  • dx100uk changed the title to UKPC/PARKING PATROL LTD UK windscreen PCN - appeal+IPC both refused - now DR+

Thanks @Nicky Boy

 


  •  

 

For a windscreen ticket (Notice To Driver) 

 

1 The date of infringement? 7th July 22
 

2 Have you yet appealed to the parking company yet? Y (however outside of 21 day appeal period after NTK received - no response)

 

Has there been a response? No

 

Have you received a Notice To Keeper? (NTK) [must be received by you between 29-56 days] Y
 

What date is on it? 10th of August 22 

Did the NTK provide photographic evidence? No (see post above, IPC complaint response mentions they have photos of ticket on windscreen but I have not seen these)

 

3 Did the NTK mention Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) [Y/N?] N
 

4 If you appealed after receiving the NTK,

did the parking company give you any information regarding the further appeals process?

[it is well known that parking companies will reject any appeal whatever the circumstances] Y on NTK it says appeals can be considered outside of the initial 21 day period in exceptional circumstances, no further details given.
 

5 Who is the parking company? Parking Patrol LTD UK
 

6. Where exactly [Carpark name and town] did you park? Private car park 325 Greenford Rd, Greenford

 

Parking Appeal 12:8:22.pdf IPC complaint response.pdf

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bothsides of the NTK please and the windscreen tickets too

one mass PDF is OK

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • dx100uk changed the title to UKPC/PARKING PATROL LTD UK windscreen PCN - appeal+IPC both refused - now DR+ - Private car park 325 Greenford Rd, Greenford

Well you've done just about everything wrong so far, but hey that's just normal if you've never been in that situation before.

 

But don't worry, nothing fatal, we can help you bat this away.

 

Work calls now but I promise to reply properly late this evening. 

 

Regarding a CCJ.  CCJs are used to punish people who defy court judgements.  The only way you could get a CCJ is if the parking company sent you a formal Letter of Claim, then started a court case, then won the court case, and you defied the court and refused to pay.  Then you would get a CCJ.  Even on the very, very, very, very, very few occasions Caggers lose in court, as long as payment is made within 30 days of being ordered by the court there is no CCJ.  

 

More later but in the meantime as dx says can you please upload the fleecers' invoice, this is vital info we need to see.

 

 

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

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Oh, glad to hear it not fatal! 

Thank you for the advice regarding CCJ's @FTMDave really helpful!

 

I've attached the tickets as advised by yourself and @dx100uk. Unfortunately file is too big to upload as a pdf document.

 

Here are links to the documents:

 

1. Windscreen ticket

2. Notice to Keeper
Greatly appreciate your time and advice

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The time they quote on that NTK are confusing  for sure 03:45 and at 17:19

Shame you outed youself as driver but its not fatal.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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Hi @brassnecked

Thanks for taking a look. 1719 is the parking location number. 

They definitely have my details as the keeper via the DVLA. Unfortunately I added insult to injury by confirming my email address etc. However, I have maintained the position that I am the registered owner of the vehicle and was only made aware of the contravention when the NTK arrived. I chosen not to name the driver of the vehicle as they are a relative and I don't want them to be hounded either.

 

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Something you really need to do now is tell them you will no longer receive communications via email... only post.

Leave them in no doubt that they are not to send you any further emails. 

Do it by email and confirm by 2nd Class letter. 

Get free proof of postage from the post office and file it away.

 

Also educate yourself by reading other threads, so you get a good idea about the vampires and what to expect from them.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

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Agree with Nicky Boy you must inform them you cannot take any info off them by email post only, send it in a letter with free proof of posting, also we do not recommend linking to documents on an external site, as can be accessed by anyone whereas an uploaded pdf can only be read by Registered logged in Cagger's I would have edited the pdf's to reduce the size for you  but they are read only.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

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For future reference, the private parking companies never, ever, ever accept appeals - ever.

 

Do you know the history of the iAS?  Once upon a time there was only one parking association, the British Parking Association, which had an appeals body that sometimes accepted motorists' appeals, to the chagrin of the worst of the companies.  Spotting a hole in the market, a pair of solicitors who handled parking court cases set up a rival trade association the IPC and its appeals body, the IAS.  Yes, the trade association, the body motorists appeal to and the firm of solicitors who cash in are all run by the same people.  No conflict of interest there!  That's who you're dealing with.  If you had complete proof that you were in prison in Australia at the time of the "offence" and the car was scrapped 25 years ago, the IAS would still find a way to reject your appeal. 

 

That's why we always say never to appeal.  It gets you nowhere and most people who appeal out themselves as the driver.

 

Debt Recovery Plus are an uninterested third party with no power to do anything save write silly letters.

 

The fleecers have sent out their paperwork in accordance with the timescales of POFA 2012 to establish keeper liability.  So far so bad but ...

 

I've searched for threads on this company on CAG and we have no record of them ever having the gonads to take a motorist to court.

 

The windscreen ticket is nonsense.  "Illegally parked".  That means you were committing a crime.  What exactly?  Were you selling packets of cocaine from your boot?  Were you parked on top of the pedestrian you had deliberately run over?  it's a nonsense.

 

The signage is unclear as you say.

 

You didn't out yourself as the driver!  Well done.

 

You were denied the right of appeal in breach of the industry code of practice.

 

Ignore the fleecers now, but be sure to come back here if they ever do send you a Letter Before Action/Letter Before Claim.

Edited by FTMDave
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We could do with some help from you.

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7 hours ago, BUNNY36 said:

The driver went into the land owner's shop on the day and explained the situation. They said "oh if you had come in and let us know you were a customer of next door we would have stop the ticket from being issued."

The landowner is the organ grinder.  UK Parking Control Office are the monkey.  At any time the landowner can call their dogs off.  The driver should go back, remind the landowner of the conversation and demand they get the ticket cancelled.

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We could do with some help from you.

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@FTMDave Incredibly helpful thank you very much for taking the time give such a detailed response!

I've learned a lot from this, as you've all said I've made a few mistakes as a newbie that I hope to never make again.

@Nicky Boy and @brassnecked can I understand a bit more about the reason for writing to them about not accepting further emails? They have never emailed me directly. However, I did send my appeal to their appeals inbox (which they never acknowledged) from my email address. I'm not keen to make any further contact with them unless absolutely needed. 

Thank again all, really helped to make things much clearer.

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the reason you never use email is if the numpties tried court, their solicitor's might send legal documents at  12:59:59 hours  the day before a court hearing and there is then no time to respond.

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We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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I am having a problem opening your PCNs. I have gmail and google drive but google is not allowing me to open them. Can you please help. Those tickets if they are not compliant then you as keeper are not responsible for the alleged debt. So if you were not the driver you would be totally off the hook and there would be no need to out the driver either.

 

Just to confirm something you said in an earlier post.  That the car park requires a Permit yet only one shop  has all the parking spaces?

Could you also please get legible photos of the signs at the car park including  the one at the entrance if there is one.

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Another reason for no emails is that it removes an easy method for them to harass you. Make things as awkward as possible, be a pain in the neck, show that you're not going to be an easy target.

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We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group The National Consumer Service

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no the main reason is :

IF IF IF this ever gets to court, they WILL exploit you and file important documents 1 min before any court deadline removing your opportunity to tear them apart .

 

send ONE further Email in reply to their, stating this email is not to be used for anything moving forward concerning our mutual exchanges. all further comms MUST be sent in WRITING ONLY by Royal Mail.

 

dx

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please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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42 minutes ago, lookinforinfo said:

I am having a problem opening your PCNs.

the OP has correctly disabled the public link to the google drive files.

 

 

 

 

  • Like 1

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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@lookinforinforeally sorry about that  - I disabled the links as I was advised probably not best to have them on here. I've attached the pdf's below. 

 

@dx100uk and @Nicky Boy that makes sense, thank you. I'll take your advice and write and letter proof with of postage. 

 

and thank you @brassnecked too!

 

@lookinforinfoI've also given access to the drive as the resolution of the small file size is not great!

 

@lookinforinfo I can go back and get a clearer picture of the sign if needed. I've made the one I have a bit bigger and also uploaded a picture of the forecourt. There are 3 shops along there, a deli, the plumbing shop (landowner) and car show room. The driver was visiting the car showroom and parked in the empty space you can see in the picture.

 

 

merged pdfs (1).pdf

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Thanks for the PDF.  The Google Maps image makes things even clearer.  The area looks like one continuous car park to any visitor. 

 

What you have going for you.

 

1.  UK Parking Patrol Office seem to be a small company that don't do court much (of course they might start!)

 

2.  You weren't the driver.

 

3.  The PCN is pants with its "Illegally parked".

 

4.  The signs are pants.  No sign when entering the car park as there's nowhere to put one.  Two small signs away from the door that could be easily missed (and were).  Even if they were seen they witter on about a permit which doesn't exist.

 

5.  The government Code of Practice states that when car parks are adjacent the boundary must be clearly shown.

 

6.  Mitigation.  A party is supposed to avoid legal action if necessary.  The only way the PPC's bod can have known the driver wasn't a customer of the bath & shower showroom is if they saw the driver going into the car showroom.  They could easily have asked the driver to move and freed a space up for the landowner's customers but did none of that.

 

7.  You're right, 03:45 is three o'clock in the morning, 15:45 is three in the afternoon.

 

8.  You were denied the right to appeal due to the incompetence of the company in not checking its e-mails properly.

Greenford Road.pdf

Edited by FTMDave
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We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

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So ignore any deforestation the fleecers do now, but never ignore a Letter Before Claim.

 

Re post 14: is there any reason the driver won't do this?  There could be an easy way to instantly bat this off.

We could do with some help from you.

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Just out of interest, the address on their paperwork "325 Greenford Road" doesn't seem to actually exist?

 

Even the OP's own photograph shows this.

323 > GAP > 327

 

And Google can't seem to find it...

 

So, the "No Unauthorised Parking" sign looks like an entry sign, for what appears to be a car park at the rear, through the "gap".

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We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

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That sign does look dodgy shame e can't read it, 325 might be premises set back down the alley

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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