Backdoor Southern water CCJ - Bailiffs - set aside - now New hearing - debt was already statute barred?

[nico007]

Hi,

 

I wonder if any one can help or if someone could take this on for me.

 

Southern Water Services Ltd had a leak under a private rented property that I used to live in, from around 2003 up until March 2014, I disputed the charges that they were trying to charge me for when I did not even cause the leak, it was an old clay pipe that was broke.

Since moving out of the property in March 2014 I did not hear any more about it

 

I Had a Letter from Court Enforcement Services, I stated to them in an email that the debt is statue barred as its been over six years since I left the property and refused to pay the water company, I asked under the FOI act for all the information regarding the debt and all they could give me was a copy of a High Court Writ dated August 2020 and low and behold two days later I had a High Court Enforcement officer turn up on my door step (my step son was at the property, I was at work)

 

they phoned me and demand that I pay the full amount of £2,000 but now the debt has risen to £3,000 and was threatening to seize my car unless I paid the £3,000 owed to the water company there and then, I stated that I did not have that kind of money and ask if I could pay £100.00 per month until I can resolve this matter,

 

they kindly phoned me back 30 minutes later and said that I had to pay £600.00 when I get paid at the end of the month and then £250.00 a month thereafter, I did say that would be a bit of a struggle and they would not budge at all,

 

I do find it a bit excessive considering that neither the HCEO nor the water company have asked for a financial breakdown of my income and outgoings.

 

Any help would very much appreciated in this matter.

 

 

 

 

[dx100uk]

southern water got a backdoor CCJ using your old address

 

when was the last time you paid SW anything please?

 

dx

 

[nico007]

Hi,

 

Last payment was in 2012 I think, definitely before I moved out in March 2013.

[dx100uk]

then the debt was already statute barred by the time of the issuance of the claimform by southern water.

have you the CCJ number? if so

 

then you need to go ring northants bulk quote the CCJ number

ask for a copy of the particulars of claim  AND a copy of the judgement by email PDF.

 

forget the bailiff , ignore them , nothing they can do there is no right of forced entry on consumer debt CCJ's.

 

if you wish simply tell him you are going for a set aside as the debt was well statute barred by the time of the court claim.

 

type in backdoor CCJ in our search and get reading.

 

is this CCJ showing on your credit file?

[nico007]

Hi,

 

I will have a look at my credit file tonight when I get in from work.

[brassnecked]

Shouldn't be too difficult to get the set aside if you read up on it.

[nico007]

Hi All,

 

I have looked at totally money, equifax and experian and its not on those but it is on the clear score credit file,

 

I have asked for another copy of the high court writ, it seems to of disappeared of my email server.

 

The only thing i am worried about is that they have a writ that i would assume gives them powers of entry etc, i had asked them prior to there visit by email to CES not to just come and turn up without a prior appointment but yes they did just turn up.

 

The Mrs is really worried that if i don't make the payment next Friday or if I make a set aside claim that they will be back with vengeance.

 

Regards

[brassnecked]

No automatic power of entry if they have not gained peaceful entry previously and have a signed Controlled Goods Order listing property with serial numbers and proper descriptions from an Enforcement visit you have signed. I would keep an eye on your car though in case they chance clamping it if its worth enough.  Can't just waltz in with a jemmy or locksmith at random

 

If you make the set aside application and they have been told the dogs will have to step back as if they take anything they will have to return it, also if you pay anything they might argue you accept you owe it and set aside may fail, perhaps DX Andyorch and Bailiff Advice will give some useful advice soon.

 

 Just as a matter of information stepson didn't let them in did he and how old is he, might be relevant if under 18?  Mind you even if he did as you are considering Set Aside, as debt not yours they are still relatively powerless.

[dx100uk]

you should of rung northants bulk today

you'll have wait till monday now.

 

 

[brassnecked]

And when you ring them and get the information DX has asked you to get

 

get the info for a set aside and get the application in,

it should be set aside as was statute barred before a claim was made to your old address

 

so tell your Mrs that you should not have to pay diddly, once set aside bailiff is stuffed, and likely if you phone and tell them you have applied for set aside and it was SB before the water co claimed, they should back off. 

 

Wouldn't look stylish if they took your car while set aside being processed, and then they had to pay you compensation when its granted and likely a good story in the press about theirs and the water co mess up.

[nico007]

Hi All,

 

No the stepson did not let them in, he phoned me whilst they were at the door because we have an autistic child in the house and get very upset if things are not of a routine or strangers at the door.

 

I have tried phoning Northampton bulk but could not get through and have since emailed them, will try again on Monday.

 

I did tell the bailiff's when they initial came on the phone that the debt was statue barred but as expected they ignored the information that I conveyed, even after this email correspondence i sent them below on the 2nd May 2022.

 

To Whom it May concern.

Enforcement Agent Reference Number:  xxxxxxxxxxx

 

You have contacted me about a sum of money owed to Southern Water Services Ltd to which you claim I owe. I have taken advice from the CAB and a Debt advisor and I do not admit any liability for your claim, unless it can proved otherwise then I have no problem in paying any outstanding money owed and would be more than happy to set up a payment plan.

 

This debt was actually in dispute from 2011 to 2013 due to myself being unlawfully overcharged for a water leak outside of a previous property that I lived at and is actually statue barred and has been for a long time, I was evicted from XXXXXXXXXr in January 2014 where this bill originally stems from, to which I then moved to the XXXXXXXXX From: February 2014 to August 2014.

 

Under the Limitation Act 1980 Section 5:

 

“An action founded on simple contract shall not be brought after the expiration of six years from the date on which the cause of action accrued.”

 

Also, the Financial Conduct Authority's Consumer Credit sourcebook states the following.

 

"...a firm must not attempt to recover a statute barred debt in England, Wales or Northern Ireland if the lender or owner has not been in contact with the customer during the limitation period." 7.15.4

"A firm must not continue to demand payment from a customer after the customer has stated that he will not be paying the debt because it is statute barred." 7.15.8

 

‘Unless you can prove otherwise’.

 

Freedom of information request 2000

 

 

Within this email I am requesting to you under the Freedom of Information Act 2000 to request the following information from Southern Water Services Ltd & yourselves Court Enforcement Services..

 

Please may you provide me with:

 

All Account information relating to this and any other accounts in my name.

 

The address that the ccj paperwork was sent to in 2020 so as to clarify that it was sent to the wrong address, which means that I had no way of defending myself legally in this matter and the judgement could have been set aside.

 

Please provide this information in the form of an email.

 

If it is not possible to provide the information requested due to the information exceeding the cost of compliance limits identified in Section 12, please provide advice and assistance, under the Section 16 obligations of the Act, as to how I can refine my request.

 

If you can identify any ways that my request could be refined, I would be grateful for any further advice and assistance.

 

If you have any queries, please don’t hesitate to contact me via email and I will be very happy to clarify what I am asking for and discuss the request.

 

Unless you can provide evidence that you own the aforementioned alleged debt that I owe or evidence of payment or a written contact from me in the relevant period under Section 5 of the Limitation Act, you are no longer able to take any court action against me to recover the amount you allege I owe.

 

If any representative from Court Enforcement Services or associated companies arrives at my girlfriends property without a prior appointment made with myself it will be taken in a vexatious noncompliant manner on your part.

 

This email has been cc’d to The Trading Standards, The Financial Conduct Authority, The Financial Ombudsman and The Legal Ombudsman

  

Please confirm in writing within the statutory 21 days Which is from the 2nd May 2022.

  

Yours faithfully

[dx100uk]

You should simply have put...

the ccj was filed to my old address i knew nothing about it

the debt was already statute barred by the time the claim form issuance.

An n244 is being filed to suspend the warrant and set aside the judgement.

 

I thankyou for your time.

 

 

[brassnecked]

Yes DX is correct the bailiff isn't there to correspond or be even interested in the why's and wherefore's of the debt  they are there to execute the writ, so might continue enforcement until the Set Aside forms in and Southern Water have to withdraw them.

 

But just sending what DX posted above, would be enough for then to know they were on hiding to nothing so would likely stay away.  If they had entered and caused the Autistic person distress they might also have been in trouble for that.

[aesmith]

Freedom of Information Act isn't the correct method, that's for obtaining information that should be made available to any member of the public.  You want information personal to you, which wouldn't be disclosed to anyone else.  Or shouldn't. This would be a Data Subject Access Request under the DPA 2018.  

 

FOI only applies to public bodies in any case.

Edited September 20, 2022 by dx100uk
unnecessary previous post quote removed

[dx100uk]

Thats the kind of mistake and wrong info from using or reading freeman of the land twaddle sites too.

 

Dx

[nico007]

the HCEO's have left me alone since I issued a n244 to set aside a judgment issued by southern water services back in 2020 and the court date is this Thursday 22nd September 2022,

 

now I have received a phone call today (Tuesday 20/09/2022) from the litigation department at Southern Water Services saying that they are not going to oppose the judgement to be set aside but are going to reissue a new claim at my current address and deal with this matter instead of going to court on thursday, my answer was i will see you in court.

 

First question is

can they reissue a new claim and keep sending debt collectors round not HCEO's because they won't be able to issue a new CCJ,

 

bearing in mind that the house I live in with my wife I am not on the mortgage or any utility bills as i would assume that they might try and pass the debt to the wife's water bill account.

 

Any help would much apricated.

 

 

[dx100uk]

they cant issue a 2nd claim if the details (POC) bar the address are the same, however, i cant see them winning anyway as the debt is statute barred.

 

should they start sending anyone around chasing without getting a new judgement

simply send SW our SB letter.

 

bit i doubt you'll hear anything once the set aside is granted. 

did you ask for costs of your N244?

 

dx

 

[nico007]

Hi DX,

 

Thanks for that, I did assume that they don't have a chance as I don't think I would of got a phone call from.

 

I have not applied for any costs, didn't know how to go about that.

Edited September 20, 2022 by dx100uk
unnecessary previous post quote removed

[dx100uk]

i would think it is mentioned on the judges orders for the hearing is it not>?

 

ideally you should never be talking on the phone about any debt..... litigated over or not, they LIE>

 

dx

 

[nico007]

Quite possibly,  I know they lie, I just stated to them that the debt is statue barred and I will see you in court on Thursday. 

[dx100uk]

Just type, no need to keep hitting quote, makes the thread twice as long 

 

Dx

[nico007]

I have just received this email from the litigation department at southern water services.

 

 

Dear Mr 

 

I am Southern Water Services Legal Representative who will be attending Court for the hearing of your application to set aside the Judgment on Thursday at Southampton County Court.

 

I am writing to inform you that I will be agreeing to your application to set aside the Judgment as clearly it was entered incorrectly due to the papers having been served on you at an address that you no longer lived at.  I can only apologise for this and will ensure that training will be given to those involved to avoid it happening again.

 

However whilst I will agree to your application to have the Judgment set aside, I will be asking the Judge to allow Southern Water to re-serve the claim form on you at your current address of ...... as set out in your application form as we had not previously been provided with your forwarding address. 

 

I will ask the Court to allow the claim to continue as the charges remain outstanding and are due for payment.  Once the claim has been served again you will have the opportunity to file the Defence that you did not have a chance to do as stated in your application.

 

Whilst I do not intend to second guess your defence, I note in your application that you believe that the charges set out in the claim are outside of the limitation period set out under the Limitation Act 1980.

 

Whilst the charges in the claim issued on 23^rd November 2018 include charges that were due from 1^st April 2011 and therefore appear to be over the six year limitation period, you made payments towards these charges the last of which was received by us on 25^th March 2013.   The limitation clock re-sets from the date of the last payment made and consequently the six year period will re-start from 25^th March 2013 which means that the claim issued in November 2018 does not include charges that are statute barred as the claim was issued within 4 ½ years of the last payment you made.  Consequently any defence based on limitation will not succeed.

 

I appreciate that you may wish to seek independent legal advice on this point and on that basis am proposing that instead of us both attending Court on Thursday, we agree the following   :

 

• The County Court Judgment be set aside;
• Southern Water be granted permission to re-serve the claim form at the address provided by you on the application notice
• You be granted permission to file a defence to the claim
• The claim be set down for a Small Claims Hearing at a date set by the Court.

 

By agreeing to the above you will have your opportunity to attend Court but prior to that will also have the opportunity to seek independent legal advice on the limitation point I have referred to above.

 

It is highly likely that the Court will be prepared to agree to the above at the hearing on Thursday in any event in which case it will be a waste of both our time attending Court on that day.  You will, however, have an opportunity to attend Court in the future in order to put your defence to the Court.

 

If you are agreeable to this please let me know and I will send you a document to sign that sets out the agreement we have reached which we can then file a Court.

 

If you are not prepared to agree to the above then I will share a copy of this email with the Court so that they are aware of the attempts made to deal with this matter without attending the hearing on Thursday.

 

If you would like to contact me to discuss this matter further please either reply to this email or contact me on the telephone number below.

 

I look forward to hearing from you.

 

Yours sincerely

 

Mrs Kelly Young FCILEx

Litigation and Claims Manager

[dx100uk]

10 hours ago, nico007 said:

i would assume that they might try and pass the debt to the wife's water bill account.

nope cant do that.

 

On 19/05/2022 at 14:02, nico007 said:

a private rented property that I used to live in, from around 2003 up until March 2014, I disputed the charges that they were trying to charge me for when I did not even cause the leak, it was an old clay pipe that was broke.

 

On 20/05/2022 at 22:36, nico007 said:

This debt was actually in dispute from 2011 to 2013 due to myself being unlawfully overcharged for a water leak outside of a previous property that I lived at

what do you mean by 'outside' ...outside the property boundary?

 

you do realise that as you were only renting the LANDLORD would be responsible if this was on his property that you rented from him.??

 

or do you mean out on the public land/road?

 

dx

 

 

[nico007]

The pipe ran from under the property from the kitchen to the just outside of the property and within the boundary.

[dx100uk]

Although you were the 'user' and signatory of the water supply contract I'm not too sure that as a renter you are the responsible party here  for a leak created within the property infrastructure.

 

I would write back, stating you wish all data via an SAR to prove they were aware of a leak, thus a dispute existed and stating the above. Do not agree with their proposal 

 

Dx