Lowell PAPLOC now Claimform - old E-ON £3K+ bill

[dx100uk]

Of course.

We don't need to see our own temple! 

We know what it looks like. .. 

[autumn53]

Thanks DX,

I thought I'll run it past you after filling it in case I have made some mistake. 

Thx for your patience.

 

[dx100uk]

how can you make a mistake inserting 2 bits of text.....

thats why we have foolproof guides that 1000's follow and never question...

[autumn53]

Sorry about being dumb and needy. Posted this morning with proof of posting.

Many thanks

[dx100uk]

so now get reading up whats next and when.

 

1000's of util Claimform threads here

 

 

[autumn53]

OK thanks for this. I will read.

[autumn53]

Hi again DX,

I today I have received a response from Overdales Solicitors.

They are pretty much repeating that the money is owed by me and they have attached the same final bill

with a letters from the past.

Could you kindly advise if I need to respond to this.

Many thanks

 

ODs LOC Reply NOA+Final Bill.pdf

[dx100uk]

so a shared meter account eon electric supply was opened 23-01-20 and when disconnected 28-07-20 you owed £3307.28.

seems pretty unreal to me.

 

 

IMHO they dont stand a chance.

 

[autumn53]

Here is the short version of a diary I have been keeping 

 

03 Jun 19 Start of Direct Debit with EON £58 (Shared Meter)

28 Jul 20  Our New smart meter installed (new account number) meter number xxxxxx

28 Jul 20 Old meter no longer in service to our property

28 Jul 20 We hope old account (shared meter) is now closed

11 Nov 20 We continue to get online bills for old meter due to tiny arrears causing a glitch in system.

15 Jan 21 I settle the above with EON to stop the automated billing and they stop.

14 SEP 21 We automatically become Eon Next Customers (A/c number xxxxx

01 Dec 21 Date of Final Bill from EON £3277.28 

07 Dec 21 Called Eon saying I have not lived at that address.

                  I was expected to send my Property deed via email which I did the next day.

18 Dec 21 I take advice from DX and raise an SAR with EON

13 Jan 22 Eon Responds to my SAR with full details

14 Mar 22 Received text & Email reminder for payment from EON (£10 late fee)

27 Sep 22 Text, Call, Letter and Email from LLowel about sale of A/c by E-On 

04 Nov 22 LLowel's Letter about considering legal action

25 Nov 22 LLowel's 2nd Letter about considering legal action

30 Dec 22 LLowel's 3rd Letter about considering legal action

17 Mar 23 Overdales' 1st Letter

28 Mar 23 Overdales' Letter Before Claim

30 Mar 23  My reply form to Overdales posted

14 Apr 23  Response from Overdales

 

Just a recap.

Thanks a lot

[dx100uk]

well yours is now not the next move.

 

dx

 

[autumn53]

Thank you very much DX.

[autumn53]

Which Court have you received the claim from ? County Court Business Car Northampton NN1

Name of the Claimant ? Lowell Portfolio I Ltd

 How many defendant's  joint or self? Self

 Date of issue – 11 May 2023

What is the claim for – 

1. The claim is for the sum of £3000 due by the Defendant under a E.on Energy Solutions Ltd account with an account reference of xxxxxxxxxxxx 

2. The Defendant failed to maintain contractual payments required under the terms of the account agreement. 

3. The debt was legally assigned to the claimant on 26.08.22, notice of which has been given to the defendant. 

4. The claim includes statutory interest under S.69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at a rate of 8% per annum from the date of assignment to the date of issue of these proceedings in the sum of £180 

The claimant claims the sum of £3400

 What is the total value of the claim? £3400 

Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? Yes 

Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? No 

Did you inform the claimant of your change of address? NA

Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account?  

When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? After April 2007 

Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? Online

Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? NO
 

Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. Issued by the Debt purchaser

 Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? Yes 

Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? Yes

 Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? Yes 

Why did you cease payments? The bill is for an address we never occupied. Additionally, this bill is back dated even if we assume the Claimant has made a mistake with the address.

What was the date of your last payment? July 2020

 Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? I disagreed to owing this amount to E.on as we never occupied the address the amount is billed to. 

Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? No 

 

Hi DX

I am abroad to look into a family emergency and am not close to my records. Please forgive me if any of the following is not up to the mark.

The Claim Form came through post today back home

Thanks very much

[dx100uk]

pop up on the MCOL website detailed on the claimform.
[if mcol is not working return after the w/end or the next day if week time]
.
 register as an individual on the Gov't Gateway Site
Go to HMRC's login page.
Click the GREEN sign in button.
Click “Create sign in details”
Enter your email address where asked.
You will now be emailed a confirmation code. ...
You will now be issued with a User ID for your government gateway account.
 note down your details inc the long gateway number given, you might need it later.
 then log in to the MCOL Website
.
 select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box.
.
 then using the details required from the claimform
.
 defend all
 leave jurisdiction unticked
 you DO NOT file a defence at this time
[BUT you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 ]
click thru to the end
confirm and exit MCOL.

.

get a CPR  31:14  request running to the solicitors [if one is not listed send to the claimant]
...
.[use our other CPR letter if the claim is for an OD or Telecom Debt]
.

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/332546-legal-cpr-3114-request-request-for-information-when-a-claim-has-been-issued/

.

on BOTH type your name ONLY
Do Not sign anything
.do not ever use or give an email
.
you DO NOT await the return of ANY paperwork 
you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform [1 in the count]

..............

 

[autumn53]

Dear DX,

 

Thank you very much.

 

I have duly submitted the response online at MCOL as instructed. I will send the CPR to the solicitor.

 

Kind Regards

 

 

[autumn53]

Dear DX, 

I  just returned from my family visit and have a small question about my response to Lowell. May I request your kind advice.

 

 

[dx100uk]

just send the CPR as is from the temple

please dont put our template on the open forum ...what does it say at the top in RED??

it should have gone off a MONTH AGO!!!  

[autumn53]

Apologies. I am sorry for assuming open forum meant other forums than CAG. I am very sorry, I was away for the past few weeks as there was an illness in the family I had to attend to. Husband took care of AOS meanwhile to buy us time. We were given 33 days which run out next week. I will post the CPR right away. Hopefully, I'll be able to file the defence in time. 

Could you please point me to the template for filing the defence. 

Thanks for your patience with me. I am a little slow at learning. Trying my best.

 

[dx100uk]

there are no templates, your defence is dependant upon the details in the poc and the paperwork received to date.

 

there are however numerous Util Claimform threads

or EON claimform threads

here that will give you an idea upon its construction

use our enhanced google searchbox on this and mostly everypage.

 

defence due by 4pm 11th june

 

 

[autumn53]

Thanks very much DX

I have been reading on CAG about filing the defence. I keep coming across a member's ongoing chat with you where they have been drafting their defence and I have come up with the following.

 

Quote

 

In the [Northampton County Court Business Centre]

Claim No: [XXXXX]

Lowell Portfolio I Ltd

Claimant

And

[Mrs XXXXXXXX]

Defendant

DEFENCE

1.The Defendant received the claim dated 11.05.23 from the Northampton County Court Business Centre on 13/05/23

 2.Each and every allegation in the Claimants statement of case is denied unless specifically admitted in this Defence.

 3.This claim is for an Electric Bill £3307.28 due by the Defendant under a E/on Energy solutions Limited account reference of 016435065950. Claimant claims a sum of £3493.58 including £186.58 towards statutory interest at the rate of 8% per annum. The Claimant also claims Court Fees to the tune of £205 and Legal representation costs of £80. This brings the total amount claimed to be £3778.58

 4.It is admitted that the Defendant has previously entered into an agreement with Original Electricity Supplier E-oN for provision of Electricity.

 5.The Claimants statement of case fails to give adequate information to enable me to properly assess my position with regards the claim.

 6.The Claimant’s Particulars of Claim [fail to provide statements when the agreements were entered into/states the agreement was entered into since they have taken on the debt]

 7.The Claimants statement of case states that the account was assigned from EoN to Lowell on 27.09.22 

8.On 31/05/23 The Defendant sent a request for inspection of documents mentioned in the claimant’s statement of case under Civil Procedure Rule 31.14 to Overdales Solicitors requesting the Claimant to provide copies of the Agreement

 9.Overdales Solicitors have not provided all these documents to the Defendant at the time of submitting this defence.

10 The Claimant is put to strict proof to:  

(a)  show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement; and 
(b)  show and evidence the nature of breach and service of a default notice  pursuant to Section 87(1) CCA1974; and 

(c)  show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for; and 
(d)  show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a  claim. 

11.Under Civil Procedure Rule 16.5 (4) Where the claim includes a MoneyClaim, a defendant shall be taken to require that any allegation relating to the amount of money claimed be proved unless he expressly admits the allegation. Therefore, it is expected that the Claimant be required to prove the allegation that the money is owed as claimed.

 12.The Defendant respectfully requests the court orders the Claimants to provide the necessary documentation in order for The Defendant to fully plead her case else the Claim should stand struck out.

 13.In the event that the relevant documents are received from the Claimant, the Defendant will then be in a position to amend her defence, and would ask that the Claimants bear the costs of the amendment.

 14.It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief as claimed or at all.

 Statement of Truth

The Defendant believes that the facts stated in this Defence are true.

Mrs xxxx

DATE

 

Am I meant to add or remove items from the above?

 

Thanks

[dx100uk]

look at the date of that its very old i suspect.

not our usual one/format

EON/Wedlake Bell LLP PAPLOC Now Claimform - old Dual Fuel Energy Util Bill for old property - Financial Legal Issues - Consumer Action Group

 

dx

 

[autumn53]

Thanks DX,

I saw your reply last night. I have been reading up and drafting my defence. Need some final editing before I paste it here. Bless you.

[autumn53]

Dear DX Please could you check if this is in order

 

1. I the Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

 

2. The Claimant has not complied with paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) Failed to serve a letter of claim pre claim pursuant to PAPDC changes of the 1st October 2017. I think I did receive such a letter from Lowell - Attachment It is respectfully requested that the court take this into consideration pursuant to 7.1 PAPDC.

 

3. Paragraph 1 is noted,I have in the past held a Direct Debit (EON sent me my Direct Debit contract upon my SAR but Overdale’s response was inconclusive - Attachment) with E.ON for provision of electricity at our property never leaving any debt owed by myself to them, but I have never owned or occupied the property address the claimant states. Additionally, assuming the claimant has made a human error with their records and the address is perhaps a misprint, the amount claimed is vastly disproportionate to our regular usage and the said bill’s date indicates back billing. Should I mention that Eon NEVER took a proper meter reading till they woke up to acquire a reading that reflected historical usage from before sharing. Or will this be shooting myself in the foot?

FYI …

SHARING BEGAN ON 03.06.2019

SHARING STOPPED ON 28.07.20

THE BILL IS DATED 01.12.21 For the period 13.6.20 to 28.07.20

The Day/Night usage is wild (Attachment)

 

The claimant has to date failed to supply any bills (??? I think I do have the final 3k bill that I am defending) or better details despite numerous previous requests and a CPR 31:14 sent to their solicitors on the 31.05.2023, the claimant has failed to respond to date (Should I give Claimant a couple of days?)

 

4. There was and still remains an unresolved dispute with EON which was never resolved in respect of the alleged debt. Furthermore, the claimant has given no details as to the breakdown of their claim and the specific period it relates to indicates back billing, so I am unable to defend accurately until the claimant can particularise and quantify its pleadings.

 

5. The claimant is claiming for a property I never owned or resided at, and therefore not liable for energy costs.

 

6. Pursuant to OFGEM code of back billing rules the alleged charges are now over 12 months old and relate to charges which have not been billed correctly by EON and are therefore prevented from charging.

 

7. Pursuant to the civil procedure rules Practice Direction 16 (7.3) Where a claim is based upon a written agreement. 

   1) a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be available at the hearing.

   With the court’s permission the Claimant is put to strict proof to: -

        a) show and disclose how the Defendant has entered into an agreement.
        b) show and disclose how the Claimant has reached the amount claimed.

 

8. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5 (4) it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

 

9. It is therefore denied that the defendant is indebted to the claimant as alleged or at all.

 

 

Many thanks DX

LBA from Lowell.pdf Overdale's response to PAP.pdf 3K Bill Period.pdf

[dx100uk]

dont play your cards!!

put it back to just that thread i pointed too please!

with your details and we'll adapt.

lowells have not supplied complete bills for the whole period claimed detailing exactly how their sum is arrived at.

[autumn53]

Thanks again DX

I have copied and pasted from your chat in that link using my details.

Quote

 

1. I the Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

 

2. The Claimant has not complied with paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) Failed to serve a letter of claim pre claim pursuant to PAPDC changes of the 1st October 2017. I think I did receive such a letter from Lowell - Attachment It is respectfully requested that the court take this into consideration pursuant to 7.1 PAPDC.

 

3. Paragraph 1 is noted, i have in the past held a financial contract with E.ON never leaving any debt owed by myself to them. The claimant has to date failed to supply any bills or better details despite numerous previous requests and a CPR 31:14 sent to their solicitors on the 31.05.2023, the claimant has failed to respond to date. (Should I give Claimant a couple of days?)

 

4. There was and still remains an unresolved dispute with EON which was never resolved in respect of the alleged debt. Furthermore, the claimant has given no details as to the breakdown of their claim nor what specific period it relates to, so I am unable to defend accurately until the claimant can particularise and quantify its pleadings.

 

5. Pursuant to OFGEM code of back billing rules the alleged charges are now over 12 months old and relate to charges which have not been billed correctly by EON and are therefore prevented from charging.

 

6. Pursuant to the civil procedure rules Practice Direction 16 (7.3) Where a claim is based upon a written agreement.

 

   1) a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be available at the hearing.

   With the court’s permission the Claimant is put to strict proof to: -

        a) show and disclose how the Defendant has entered into an agreement.
        b) show and disclose how the Claimant has reached the amount claimed.

 

8. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5 (4) it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

 

9. It is therefore denied that the defendant is indebted to the claimant as alleged or at all.

 

 

I have not mentioned the wrong address on the bill or the back dating at this point as suggested by you.

 

Many thanks

 

LBA from Lowell.pdf

[dx100uk]

On 30/03/2022 at 18:32, autumn53 said:

The House Agreement does not show any ratio or any figures for this ‘appropriate contribution’. It has no description of this ‘contribution’.

My husband started the account and DD with E-ON in January ’19 after moving.The house underwent major renovations from this point on till late may. Not fully unpacked, our lives were up-side-down.

Digging into my our Bank Statements, we found the following outgoings towards E.On. A few big bills like I had mentioned in one of my previous messages.

 

Mar 19                     £294    (The account is set up in my husband’s name)

June 19                      £58

Aug 19                       £58

Sep 19                       £58

Oct 19                        £58

Nov 19                       £58

Dec 19                       £58

Jan 20                       £58     (The account is now in my name)

Feb 20                     £263

Feb 20                       £45

Mar 20                       £45

Apr 20                        £45

May 20                       £45

Jun 20                        £45

Jul 20                         £45    Our own Smart Meter installed. This A/c should now be closed but we kept getting billed                                                     although we got a fresh account number.

Aug 20                       £45    Closed account still billing us and we paying via DD

Sep 20                       £45     As Above

Oct 20                        £45     As Above

Nov 20                       £45      As Above

Dec 20                       £45      As Above

Jan 21                      -£43      Refund - we were still being billed as they owed us this £43 and that was aborting the                                                            automatic closure of our account in their system.

Jan 21                  £278.39    Three monthly DD set for Our own smart meter account as old account finally closes (it                                                       seems we were charged for both accounts between Jul 20 - Jan 21)

Feb 21

Mar 21

Apr 21                   £499.32    Three monthly DD

May 21

Jun 21

Jul 21                     £461.43    Three monthly DD

Aug 21                   £123          Switched to Monthly DD

Sep 21                   £123          Approx is when E.ON hands us over to E.ON Next and a fresh E.ON Next a/c opens.

Oct 21                    £123

Nov 21                    £123

Dec 21                    £123         We get billed for £3277 by E.ON as in the original post and I raise an SAR

Jan 22                    £123          My husband’s SAR raised to no response from E.ON

Feb 22                    £123

Mar 22                    £123

 

We have no information in case our sellers were also being charged by an electric company. There have been no successful meter readings from our side to E.ON as the farm was locked and the EA was taking no interest in having this sorted for us. I could not find any physical bills from that time. Although I have a few from their response to my SAR (image).

I think when I last spoke to E-ON upon receiving this bill back in Dec 21, they thought that the chicken farm address is mine. I was asked by their representative to present something in support of me saying that we never lived on that address.

I showed them my land registry images and they were satisfied that I have not lived on the farm and the two address confusion was cleared. But they still felt that the money is owed by us as at some point they were just charging us an average that did not reflect the true usage.

I reluctantly agreed as I did not know how to respond to such an argument. I did not even know how much my husband had been paying in the past as he was not home. I was offered to be helped by their accounts team if I rang them back in 15 days time which I never did. I instead raised an SAR.

1. The chicken farm was vacant to the best of out knowledge. Only very rarely there was some activity.

2. Honestly, we thought nothing, we did not even look into this clause. The purchase was so taxing as we were this close to being homeless, we were mentally exhausted.

We could not gather our bearings till late June. We lived out of boxes, slept on rolled out rugs, walked on concrete floors as the renovations sucked the life out of us stretching into agonising months.

Not sure if the Sellers were tied to E.ON or some other electric company and if they paid or not paid during or before above time periods.

 

3. The account was never with the sellers, we set this account up assuming we should be paying for the electricity in our property based on an estimated bill till our own meter was installed. This we felt would take a few months. Knowing that the Chicken farm is not in use and is locked, we assumed that all bills should be our responsibility.

E.ON started the DD with us but never took the actual reading, or we would have received this big 3k bill back then.

They did not even get an actual reading back when our own meter was installed and Western Power cut off the supply from the shared meter. Or we would have been given this £3k bill right then. Why now?

You are 100% right, only if we could reverse the time. We were unable to think straight at that time as we really had no home, it was just a lot of beams, nails, puddled floors and noisy power tools. I was getting treated with injections to my spine and was totally exhausted/ It never occurred to us that we could end up facing such a massive bill.

4. Yes we were receiving bills, I faintly remember that some were being addressed to the farm but they ended up in our post. I looked but could not find them now in our paperwork.

5. It is a huge possibility as you mention above. But, why would E.ON wait for so long to bill us. Why did they not bill us for an accumulated underestimate upon account closure?

6. Long story short. The EA never wanted us to buy this house and was discouraging us from the very start. They ensured we never met or spoke to the sellers. We tried many times but eventually gave up. Our solicitor was a keen lady who tried to get the agreement to suit us, but this she certainly missed. And so did we.

Also, we did not take the final meter reading for sure upon completion or even when our Smart Meter was installed. I could have easily asked the Western Power men to check the meter reading that day but I failed to be proactive. It was not on my mind at all.

I am a bit unsure about my next step. Will try changing the energy supplier tomorrow for sure. Please may I get some more advice. What should I do first?

Thanks a lot

bill.pdf 1.61 MB · 1 download

need both sides of the bill pdf please in the above post.

 

dx