NPE/BW ANPR PCN PAPLOC now claimform - wrong reg - MJB Winelodge, Bridge Road, Lowestoft, Suffolk NR32 3LR

[SCDH]

My first draft attached is based on a post half way down the link from FTM Dave. However, I would like to find info referring to mistyped reg numbers and how it's not acceptable to fine motorists for a mistyped entry.  Any ideas how to find this info or proposed info so I can quote section and para to back up the info in the letter would be really appreciated.

 

Many thanks.

 

 

Parking code enforcement framework - GOV.UK

WWW.GOV.UK

---

We are consulting on new measures to improve the regulation of the private parking industry.

 

Others have said how the new

Reply Letter of Claim - BW Legal.pdf

Edited September 6, 2021 by SCDH

[FTMDave]

Well done on finding the snotty letter on Happy54's thread, that is exactly the sort of thing you should be sending.

 

You also link to the government consultation document.  What you are looking for is in "Chapter 4: The level of parking charges".

[SCDH]

Many thanks FTM Dave.  Really appreciate your help with this!

 

That's great and have quoted chapter and verse in the revised 'Reply Letter of Claim'.

Reply Letter of Claim - BW Legal.pdf

[FTMDave]

Good work.

 

We'd probably have made it "snottier"!  However, the important thing is you've shown you know the law and the PPC know they are on a hiding to nothing if they do do court.

 

There are no guarantees, but we've seen them recently back off virtually always in these cases.

 

Write on the bottom of your letter COPIED TO NATIONAL PARKING ENFORCEMENT LTD.  This is because crooked solicitors like BW Legal are infamous for egging on their clients to go to court, even if the case is pants.  After all, they get paid either way.  Let the PPC know directly you've sussed their sordid little game.

 

Obviously quote their PCN reference number on the letters.

 

If none of the other regulars disagree, invest in two 2nd class stamps tomorrow and get two free Certificates of Posting from the post office.

[SCDH]

Thanks for taking a look. I just didn't want cause confrontation for the sake of it but I take your point and I appreciate there are no guarantees.  

 

Good advice about copied to COPIED TO NATIONAL PARKING ENFORCEMENT LTD and quoting the PCN reference number on the letters.

 

I was going to ask if the letters needed to be registered post but you've answered my question by getting certificates of posting.

 

I'll update the thread on the response or lack of when their cut off date to reply has passed.

 

 

[SCDH]

Dear all,

 

I've just had a letter from BW Legal (attached) which is in response to my letter after receiving their LBC.  As you will see, they quote Parkingeye V Beavis in the fact that they don't have to consider loss as a relevant factor.

 

While they state a full and correct reg must be entered to avoid becoming liable for a PCN, they obviously don't mention that it's a demines offence but are happy to discuss it in court.

 

I would also value opinions on their view that once I left the carpark to receive payment for the meter the offence was complete.

 

Thanks in advance again for all your help.

Snotty Letter Response.pdf

[dx100uk]

what witness statement with the snotty letter did you send?

 

dx

 

[SCDH]

I've attached it minus names and dates.  Not so much a witness statement as he didn't see me put the money in the meter.  More a statement of payment really.

Statement.pdf

[dx100uk]

why did you send that, you were not advised too nor told us you were??

 

dx

 

[SCDH]

Because it demonstrates that payment was made and when I mentioned it on the forum earlier the response was positive.  If it goes to court they would see that statement anyway.

[dx100uk]

well we didnt say send that but no matter. next time stick to the advice please don't play your cards early!!.

 

yours is not the next move

wait and see if they issue a letrter of claim, they have 6yrs, don't move without informing them.

 

dx

 

[SCDH]

Thanks DX, 

 

While your communications are direct, I do appreciate your knowledge and experience in these matters and genuinely value your input.  As far as I see it, the facts are the facts and I'm certainly not going to commit perjury in court by saying anything other than what the statement says.  I know you weren't implying that, I'm just saying that the statement tells the truth and I can't deviate from it. However, I do take your point about not playing my cards early. 

 

While they might have a technical point over a breach by leaving the carpark to get the money for the machine, I would counter that with the point that it was very dark and the machine had no lighting.  Also, the street lights were facing away from all signage resulting in poor lighting to read.  As a result, it's hard to be responsible for an accidental breach if you aren't aware of the terms when first entering the carpark.  However, I respect your advice if you think otherwise.

 

Can you confirm that I need to receive another Letter of Claim before having to respond?

 

Many thanks.

 

 

[dx100uk]

I was in a timewarp there. Sadly not firing on all cylinders for a good while to come yet..

 

youve had the paploc so what they might do is leave it till near statute barred date and send another paploc years down the line or raise a court claim...who knows..

But safe to say yours is not the next move unless you move...

 

Its also worthy to note they cant intimate they can enforce reverse trespass. They cant even enforce trespass on the land they might manage, let alone leave the site and enter another site and say thats not allowed.....

 

Dx

[lookinforinfo]

Your letter to them did admit that you were the driver. That isn't fatal but in situations where there is no transfer of liability from the driver to the keeper then there are occasions when the Court will not allow the assumption that the keeper is automatically the driver.  So a driver can win the case if there is insufficient evidence to prove they were driving at the time.

In your case the result probably hangs on the reg.number and good luck with winning that DCBL and NPE. 

[FTMDave]

No real harm has been done but the thing to remember is that rogue solicitors like BW Legal who are in cahoots with the PPCs are simply conmen.  They're solicitors, they know the law, they know about "de minimis", they know the money isn't owed but carry on regardless.

 

That's why forum regular lookinforinfo prepared the snotty letter you found to show their sordid little schemes had been sussed and it would have been better to send them the whole thing.

 

Once you start discussing evidence with them they will come out with every lie imaginable to try to get you to pay.  It's complete nonsense to say the grace period ended because you went to get a quid from the chippy, what you did was no different to going back to your car to get some change, for example.

 

You've been through PAPLOC now, they sent the Letter of Claim, you told them where to get off, relax now, yours is not the next move.

 

 

[SCDH]

Thanks gents,

 

I've obviously made mistakes with the statement of payment confirming me as the driver but it also helps to confirm payment was made, bit of a double edged sword but lesson learnt.

 

Point taken about not discussing points of law and yes, I can't see the difference between getting a quid from the chippy or anywhere else.

 

Also, good to know they can't enforce trespass or reverse trespass.

 

As advised by all of you, I'll let them make the next move.

[brassnecked]

Still plenty to send them packing .

[SCDH]

Thanks, let's hope so.

 

I'm very grateful for all the support I've received.

 

 

[SCDH]

Just received the Claim Form from the County Court Business Centre. 

Defend in writing on NB9 or pay within 14 days after date of issue. 

 

If I ignore then I'll be found guilty by default and a CCJ if I don't pay within a month. 

 

According to CAB, the court can decide to strike out a defence claim with no hearing if they don't see it as a valid defence. 

 

If it goes ahead the claimant can add further costs.

  Looks like it's decision time!  

 

[honeybee13]

Hi.

 

Can you let us have the information from the forum sticky please? We can start advising you then.

 

 

HB

[SCDH]

Many thanks honeybee13,

 

As requested, my answers are as follows:

 

Please answer the following questions for ANPR.

 

1 Date of the infringement 23rd February 2018

 

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] 28th February 2018

 

3 Date received Can't remember - approximately within a week.
 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?] Yes it does.
 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Yes, a photos of my car entering and leaving and the registration number
 

6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal] No
 

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up N/A
 

7 Who is the parking company? National Parking Enforcement

 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] MJB Winelodge, Bridge Road, Lowestoft, Suffolk NR32 3LR
 

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under. Independent Appeals Service www.theias.org

 

 

[honeybee13]

Thank you. Could you also do the sticky I linked to in post #72 please?

 

HB

[SCDH]

Name of the Claimant : NATIONAL PARKING ENFORCEMENT

 

Claimants Solicitors: BW Legal

 

Date of issue – 18th nov 2021

 

Date for AOS - 6th dec 

 

Date to submit Defence -  20th dec

 

 

What is the claim for –

 

1.The Claim for the sum of  .... being due from the Defendant in respect of a Parking Charge Notice (PCN) for a contractual breach which occurred on .... in the private car/park land at ..... 

 

2.The PCN was issued as the driver failed to comply with the terms and conditions , as displayed . 

 

3.Despite demands, the charge remains unpaid. 

 

4.The claim also includes statutory interest pursuant to section 69 of the County Courts  Act 1984 at the rate of 8% per annum (a daily rate of £0.02) from .... to ... being an amount of ... 

The claimant also claims £60 recovery costs as set out in the Terms and Conditions  and in the ATA AoS Code of Practice. 

Edited November 24, 2021 by dx100uk
dates corrected.

[honeybee13]

As the above sticky says, you must acknowledge service on the MCOL website, you may need to set up an account.

 

With a court, claim, you need to be more proactive than you might think, so it's up to you to work out the deadlines for AoS and your initial short defence. If there's anything you aren't sure about, please ask.

 

HB

[SCDH]

Thanks Honey Bee,

 

I've tried to set up an account but it's not accepting the defence password in the Important Note box on the bottom right of the first page.  I'll have to ask them for support.