CEL ANPR PCN Claimform - 16mins overstay - liverpool retail park.

[mishka muerte]

Hi All,
I have received a parking ticket as RK (thats registered keeper right?) for overstaying by 16 mins in a well known wholesalers car park in Liverpool.
I read some very confusing (and sometimes contradictory information on several sites) on how to deal with this.

I followed the instructions to firstly challenge the validity of their claim.
I wrote to them (no response) and emailed them. I had to guess at the email address because they provide only the registered office address or a 'claim line', which if i had contacted them on that, would have been agreeing to their idea of us having a contract in the first place (right?).

i eventually got the admin email and sent it there, stating that i had already written to them with no response.
I got a response saying that they do not respond to correspondence at that address and i should either write to them (already did) or contact via the appeals line or appeals email (again with the acknowledgement that its an appeal i need, rather than straight up confirmation).
I asked in at the wholesalers customer/ member services in store about the car park ownership and they informed me it was a consistent problem and they didnt know the owner.

I have contacted the head office in Herts for the information. (Customer services/ member services/ online services & complaints) for the information regarding ownership of carpark and the contract of agreement between them and the CE parking management with no luck.
I received no further correspondence and therefore assumed that they had dropped their spurious claims.

They acknowledged my letter with: "Response from representation team -  We refer to your recent correspondence. We accept for you to pay the original reduced sum of £100. The Parking Charge Notice has been passed to a debt recovery agency. All further enquiries, including payments, must be directed to them. Please follow the instruction on the correspondence you have received."

I received nothing else until I receive a Northampton county court business service court claim.

The amount is now in the hundreds (£274).
I have acknowledged and sent back the form with nothing else written on it.

now i have another week or so to mount my defence.

I dont know anyone who speaks 'legalese' and frankly its giving me sleepless nights.

Incidentally, at the time of the alleged 'contravention' there was a bout of sudden severe weather which was 'waited out' inside the wholesalers porch by several members and their children because the soft furnishings and electricals (for example) bought in store would have been destroyed by the downpour.

Further investigation into the owner of the Civil Enforcement ltd has shown me that they are owned by CCP parking, who are in turn owned by Qa Nominees and are owned by people exposed in the Panama Papers scandal.

 

I am feeling like im a tiny part of a very big scam here, one that DVLA are profiting from.

Under advisement, I have written a complaint to the wholesalers complaining about being treated so shoddily as a member.
Under advisement, I have also written to CE ltd requesting a Subject Access Request.
But I really dont understand the process or what steps to take now.

[dx100uk]

god where ever did you find all that twaddle rabbit hole stuff to go down ....

no wonder you came here...we don't allow nor portray twaddle , neither lead people doen rabbit holes that then cost them money by sending PM's offering help of anything upto £360 for even a failed CCJ defence...

 

anyway enough of that BS.

lets get you moving in the right direct , you should be ok as CEL are always losers if you do things correctly

 

can you fill this out please:

 

Received a Court Claim From A Private parking Speculative invoice?? - How To Deal With It HERE***Updated Aug 2016*** - Private Land Parking Enforcement - Consumer Action Group

[FTMDave]

The last two times CEL took Caggers to court the fleecers got a right hammering

 

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/417771-cel-pcn-claimform-tenerife-buildings-station-road-south-gosforth-newcastle-ne3-1qd-claim-discontinued/

 

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/421714-cel-pcn-claimform-white-cross-business-parkclaim-discontinued-now-going-for-gdpr-breach-claim/

 

They are eminently beatable but you have to start getting things right from now on.  Please fill in dx's sticky.

[brassnecked]

Sooner you fill in the sticky, sooner can look where they might have messed up

[dx100uk]

and?

 

[mishka muerte]

Name of the Claimant ? Civil enforcement ltd

 

Date of issue – 15/02/2021

 

Date to submit defence - 19/03/2021

 

Particulars of Claim

 

What is the claim for – the reason they have issued the claim? 

 

1. Claim for monies relating to a parking charge for parking in a private car park managed by the claimant in breach of the terms + conditions.

 

2.Drivers are allowed to park in accordance with the terms + conditions of use. ANPR cameras and/or manual patrols are used to monitor vehicles entering and exiting the site.

 

Debt + damages claimed to the sum of 182.00

 

Violation date 18/12/2019

 

The claimant claims 198.83 for monies relating to a parking charge per above including 16.83 interest pursuant to S.69 of the County Courts act of 1984 rate 8% PA from the dates above to 12/02/2021

 

Same rate to judgement or sooner payment daily rate to judgement 0.04

 

Total debt and interest due 198.83
 

 

Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? Not as far as im aware
 

Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? Yes
 

Did you inform the claimant of your change of address? No, because my family are still there (lockdowns, shielding, etc have caused this change).
 

I have sent a SAR to the Claimant on the 5/03/21

I also sent a CRP31.14 request on 8/03/21

[lookinforinfo]

You seem to have two questionnaires involved. One for parking and one for a loan. Not quite sre how you did it as the URL in the above post doesn't include anything about loans.

Edited March 12, 2021 by lookinforinfo

[dx100uk]

questionnaire tidied...

 

you need our 3 - 5 line generic defence in most PCN claimform threads here already 

use our search top right in the red banner

 

PCN claimform.

 

i notice the POC doesn't state what you did wrong...

 

 

 

 

[mishka muerte]

Hi CAGgers,

I just want to thank you for your time and your guidance with my case.
Im still not really sure how it all works, but i gave it a shot and ive learned some new things.

 

I also called the head office of the wholesalers to complain about the absurdity (and expense) of the situation.

They put me through to a very nice lady who listened and the cancelled the whole darn claim.

So this one, that has caused me so much stress, is over..
Now to read up some more.

Ive got other issues to fightback.

It never ends.. Cheers gang x

[dx100uk]

so who were the wholesalers you never said?

well done!

 

dx

 

[FTMDave]

Yes, if you can give us more details it would be most welcome.

 

We've seen plenty of cases where supermarkets, hotels, etc., called off the fleecers - but not when it had got so far as a claimform.  Any info. from you could help other members in the future. 

[dx100uk]

the wholesalers were not the claimant so insure CEL do issues a notice of discontinuance to the court

[FTMDave]

41 minutes ago, dx100uk said:

the wholesalers were not the claimant so insure CEL do issues a notice of discontinuance to the court

Especially given that today is the deadline for filing your defence.

[dx100uk]

i'd not take a chance MM.

file our std 3-5 line defence on mcol just in case. by 4pm today.

else it will be monday before it gets registered.

as CEL are involved i'd not trust them as far as i could kick them.

 

FTM...can you wack one up?

 

[FTMDave]

 

1  The Defendant is the recorded keeper of [motor vehicle].

 

2.  The Claimant was not contracted by the landowner to provide car-park management services and is not capable of entering into a contract with the Defendant on its own account, as the car park is owned by and the terms of entry set by the landowner.  Accordingly, it is denied that the Claimant has authority to bring this claim.  The proper Claimant is the landowner.

3.  In any case it is denied that the Claimant entered into a contract with the Defendant.

 

4. The Particulars of Claim is denied in its entirety.  It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief at all.

[mishka muerte]

Hi.

Thank you for that.

I went onto the MCOL site and it says:

Claim number or password is incorrect.

From this i assume that the whole thing is done and dusted.

 

After doing some research, I found out that the wholesalers do actually own the land of their car park and they employ CEL to manage their car park on their behalf.

I only got the 'fine' cancelled because i phoned up head office to ask why their local customer services would tell people enquiring about it that they dont know the landowner and get asked this a lot due to the tight car park controls.

 

This being false information and that there is a specific person at the wholesalers (Costcooooo) who can stop the tickets in their tracks. Hmph!

 

Now, to tackle DCBL and Erudio..

[dx100uk]

Did you register with the .gov.uk site 1st?

the claim should still show regardless of its status

 

you need to findout.

sadly as often happens mcol fails over the w/end which is not resolved till Monday.

 

 

[mishka muerte]

Hi,

I registered with MCOL when i acknowledged the claim.
Those same claim details are now not recognised on the MCOL site and wont give me access to anything. This is why i believe its been properly cancelled. The nice lady from Costcoooo called me back to verify that it had been stopped also.
I hate to assume anything, but..
 

[dx100uk]

It will still show. Regardless.

Mcol must be having issues

 

 

Check Monday

costCo were not the claimant they cant remove anything...and neither can the claimant.

Must be an mcol issue

[FTMDave]

I agree with dx.  Relying on a verbal promise, from someone who isn't even the Claimant, is very dangerous.  Especially when you are dealing with CEL, who are the worst charlatans out there.  All it would take is an e-mail read late, and you'd have a court judgement against you.

 

The defence should never have been left to the very last day.

 

Keep trying MCOL today, and in any case get the defence in immediately tomorrow.

 

 

[FTMDave]

So what did MCOL show today?

[mishka muerte]

The MCOL site stayed the same message. It did not recognise my login details (claim number).
I have since received an email from CEL asking if i still wanted my SAR fulfilled seen as their client had dropped the case.
I said yes anyways..

Thank you for all your advice. I will make a donation to the cause.
I will also be reading up on this so much more, as i have more things to challenge (Erudio & DCBL) now and i feel a little less helpless/ hopeles with it, even though the jargon is still mostly gobbledygook.
 

[FTMDave]

Well the e-mail from CEL is good news.

 

Can you please post if up verbatim?  It's weird CEL going on about "their client", it doesn't make sense.

 

We probably come across as paranoid, but we have a lot of experience of CEL's lies so want to be absolutely sure you're in the clear!

[dx100uk]

go ring the court and check!

 

[FTMDave]

https://courttribunalfinder.service.gov.uk/courts/county-court-business-centre-ccbc