VCS/ELMS Spy car 2*PCN PAPLOC Now Claimform for 1 of them - 'NO STOPPING' BP Station East Midlands airport

[bolmgsr]

I went to East Midlands airport to pick up a friend.

I stopped in a no stopping zone for about a minute then when I saw him pulled forward around 20 metres picked him up and left.

 

I have received 2 PCN’s from vehicle control services,

one for stopping in a no stopping zone and one for stopping and picking up.

 

I appealed both and both appeals were rejected I refused to pay, and VCS have passed the debt on to ELMS legal.

 

They have separated these two offences by over a month when sending out a request to pay the fine, which I did for the first offence but then a month later got the second letter.

 

I’m thinking of not paying this and they can take me to court but would like peoples opinion on whether I have a case or not maybe legally what they did was right but morally it was wrong can they keep issuing fines like that.

[FTMDave]

This disgraceful company is well known to the forum - as are their defeats in court, of which they got two last week.

 

You are absolutely right not to pay. 

 

Can you please fill in the forum sticky - sorry, twice - so we can see what is wrong with these invoices.  VCS never bother to comply with the law, because, unlike you, unfortunately the majority of motorists just pay up.

 

BTW, these are not fines, they are invoices, a private company has the same power you and I have to fine someone - absolutely zero.

 

 

 

[FTMDave]

I've had to hide your post as you've left your name, address, vehicle registration & PCN number all showing on both attachments.  These need to be redacted.  

 

You have every chance of beating VCS, and the best thing you can do at the moment is to read some other VCS airport threads to familiarise yourself with the company and the legal system.

[bolmgsr]

Thanks for that and for the advice

[FTMDave]

Making mistakes is normal when something is new to you - when I came across the site I realised I'd been getting stuff wrong for years.  Appealing was a mistake.  VCS are a bunch of crooks.  We have an airport "no stopping" case at the moment where they are trying to get money out of a motorist for stopping ... at a zebra crossing ... with a pedestrian photographed walking on it!  I kid you not.  They never, ever accept appeals.  Similarly the IAS are a bunch of crooks who always back their mates up and always find against the motorist.  The IPC parking association, the IAS appeals body & Gladstone's solicitors who make big bucks from parking cases - are all run by the same people!  No conflict of interest there!

 

Before you appealed VCS knew who was the keeper of the vehicle, but not who was driving.  Did you out yourself as the driver?

 

If you read other cases you'll see that VCS will send you "threatening" letters, they'll then pretend the case has been passed to another party and the amount you owe has increased (Elms Legal in your case), loads of noise will be made about you ending up with terrible legal costs, your family members transported to Australia, you being hung, drawn & quartered, etc.  All hot air from paper tigers.

 

Get straight back onto the forum if they send you a Letter Before Action/Letter Before Claim though.  The letter from Elms Legal wasn't a LBA, was it?

 

The good news is that if VCS ever did try court they would almost certainly lose.  Caggers beat them in two court cases last week.  EMA and other airports are covered by bye-laws.  Let's say for a moment that you did do something naughty with your car.  Well you should be prosecuted in a magistrate's court and a fine paid to the state.  Private companies can't override bye-laws.  You don't owe them a bean.

 

Get reading up and familiarise yourself also with prohibition, the unlawful amounts VCS (or Excel, both companies are run by the same shyster Simple Simon) make up which we call the Unicorn Food Tax, POFA (although you've probably outed yourself as the driver), etc.

[dx100uk]

and can we have that Q*A link done please..

 

dx

 

[bolmgsr]

The letter from ELMS was a letter before claim Saying if I don’t pay they will commence legal proceedings against me without further notice. I’ll have a look at the forum as you suggest, and fill in the Q&A best I can without still having the PCN.

thanks

 

[dx100uk]

Snooty letter time then.

Why have you not got the pcn's and ntk's?

 

Dx

[bolmgsr]

Threw them away out of frustration thought I might have a picture of them somewhere but can’t locate them, will I need them if it goes to court.

thanks

[dx100uk]

no they'll supply them in their court WS 

but thats miles away if ever 

 

snotty letter time

 

dx

 

[bolmgsr]

1 Date of the infringement

10/12/2019
 

 

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] 19/12/2019
 

3 Date received Give answer here
 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?] Not known
 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Yes 
 

6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal] Yes
 

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up Yes posted below
 

7 Who is the parking company? Vehicle control services ltd

 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] East Midlands airport approach road outside the bp petrol station
 

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under. IAS

 

If you have received any other correspondence, please mention it here

 

VCS have passed both PCN’s to ELMS legal to recover the debt, they have sent me a letter before claim

ive also contacted East Midlands airport who basically  say it’s nothing to do with them and that the petrol station have entered into a separate agreement with VCS

 

 

1st PCN appeal rtefusal.pdf 2ndt PCN appeal rtefusal.pdf

[dx100uk]

You were outside? The petrol station on the highway?

Can you get the pictures they have used from vcs website at all?

[bolmgsr]

Yes was stopped on double red lines outside petrol station got no photographic evidence but I’ve just been reading, could this be described as a continuous contravention as both PCN’s were issued within a minute on the same bit of road and therefore the same offence.

should I send a letter to ELMS legal as they seem to be the ones chasing me now.

 

thanks

[dx100uk]

1 hour ago, bolmgsr said:

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] East Midlands airport approach road outside the bp petrol station

is that exactly what they VCS state in writing?

or where you know you actually were on the site ?

 

VCS appeal refusal letters also state..

Site: The Fuel Station, EMA Post Code: DE74 2SA

The signs within the Fuel Station, clearly state "No Stopping",

 

 

 

 

[FTMDave]

Can you please tell us exactly where you parked on the two occasions?  It's important because it looks as if VCS may have messed up re the location in at least in one of their letters.

 

Yes, you need to reply to Elms Legal but let's get to the bottom of the two locations first.

[bolmgsr]

I was stopped on the road adjacent to the petrol station, not on the petrol station, then drove approximately 50 meters along the same road to pick up. Here is the adjudicators appeal dismissal :-

 

I am satisfied that the Appellant was parked in an area where the Operator has authority to issue Parking Charge Notices and to take the necessary steps to enforce them.

A number of images have been provided to me by the Operator which shows the signage displayed on this site. After viewing those images I am satisfied that the signage is sufficient to have brought to the attention of the Appellant the terms and conditions that apply to parking on this site. 

In this Appeal it is clear from the images provided that the Appellant's vehicle was stationary within the restricted area in contravention of the terms and conditions which were prominently displayed throughout the site. The extensive signage on site makes it clear that no stopping is permitted in any circumstances. The wording within the sign is such that it should be easy for any competent driver to read whilst travelling and without stopping. This is the very nature of most road signs. The Appellant would have passed a number of these signs before stopping in the area he did. Therefore the Appellant's argument about grace periods is not accepted. Unfortunately for the Appellant by stopping at all he breached the terms for entering and as a result the Appellant is liable for the parking charge.

The signage at this location clearly indicated to motorists the level of charges that were in force. In view of the fact that the Appellant chose to stop there it confirms that the Appellant agreed to the level of the parking charge if it arose. In addition the recent case in the Supreme Court of Parking Eye and Beavis dealt in part with this issue and decided that that the amount of the parking charge was justified in view of the Operator's overheads and expenses as well as by comparing the charges with those made in the public sector. Therefore the Appellant's argument regarding loss are not accepted.

I have considered all the issues raised by both parties in this Appeal and I am satisfied that the Operator has established that the Parking Charge Notice was properly issued in accordance with the law and therefore this Appeal is dismissed."

As your appeal has been dismissed, the Independent Adjudicator has found, upon the evidence provided, that the parking charge was lawfully incurred.

As this appeal has not been resolved in your favour, the IAS is unable to intervene further in this matter.

 

You should contact the operator within 14 days to make payment of the charge. 

Should you continue to contest the charge then you should consider obtaining independent legal advice.

Yours Sincerely,
The Independent Appeals Service

[FTMDave]

OK, good news, because VCS clearly state in one of their letters that you stopped in the fuel station and that you admitted it and they have CCTV evidence proving it.  All obvious garbage.

 

Yes, you need to reply to Elms Legal otherwise with two tickets VCS are likely to take you to court.  Look up "snotty letter" on the forum, tweak one to fit your case, and post up a draft here.  You need to show them you'd be big trouble if they did do court.

 

Chucking away the paperwork when you're in legal dispute is never a good idea.  The tickets would have had photographic evidence.  Personally I'd send a SAR to VCS to get your hands on the correspondence.

 

 

[bolmgsr]

Thanks i did not noticed that, I defiantly didn’t enter the petrol station or admit to entering it I can post a copy of my appeal.

when I picked up I did a u turn in the road and drove out

ill look up the letter and post a draft . Thanks

[dx100uk]

well thats shot themselves in the foot...

 

the location stated as 

27 minutes ago, dx100uk said:

Site: The Fuel Station, EMA Post Code: DE74 2SA

4 minutes ago, bolmgsr said:

A number of images have been provided to me by the Operator which shows the signage displayed on this site. After viewing those images I am satisfied that the signage is sufficient to have brought to the attention of the Appellant the terms and conditions that apply to parking on this site. 

 

because: 

2 hours ago, bolmgsr said:

ive also contacted East Midlands airport who basically  say it’s nothing to do with them and that the petrol station have entered into a separate agreement with VCS

then if they think you were in the station no other signs outside mean anything.

 

[bolmgsr]

Struggling to search for the snotty letters can you post a link please

[FTMDave]

Post 51 here  https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/420804-cel-rejected-my-appeal-final-notice-before-action/page/3/?tab=comments#comment-5091491

 

Post 10 here, indeed sent to VCS  https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/430939-vcs-anpr-pcn-paploc-berkley-centre-sheffield/?tab=comments#comment-5090750

 

Obviously these cases are a bit different to yours so you will have to tweak the letters.

[bolmgsr]

Hi could you have a look at the response I intend to send to ELMS legal

I write in response to your so-called “Letter Before Claim”received in relation to PCN Number VCSxxxx for an alleged parking breach.

 

I am writing to confirm that I have no intention of paying this ridiculous made-up sum of money for allegedly breaking some imaginary contract with your client.

 

Aside from the fact you have the location completely wrong as I never stopped in the fuel station, Your clients claim to have cctv footage to prove I did, is obvious garbage. This whole claim is a nonsense and I’m sure any Judge would agree.

 

Should your client wish to proceed with this farcical claim, I’ll be seeking recovery of costs on the basis of unreasonable behaviour, as well as damages for breach of the DPA 2018

[FTMDave]

I was thinking yesterday that the fact VCS have got the location wrong is your strongest card and the best way to ridicule their claim.  On the other hand, you shouldn't play your cards too soon in front of slimy Simple Simon.  Difficult one.  How about a tweak to make it more ambiguous ...

 

I write in response to your so-called “Letter Before Claim” received in relation to PCN Numbers VCSxxx & VCSxxxx for alleged parking breaches.

I am writing to confirm that I have no intention of paying this ridiculous made-up sum of money for allegedly breaking some imaginary contract with your client.

I have correspondence from your client Simple Simon where he gets the location of the "contravention" wrong and even pretends to have cctv footage to show me and the vehicle in a place neither have ever been.  This whole claim is a nonsense and I’m sure any Judge would agree.  No, I'm not sending you a copy of the letter, you can get off your backsides and do some due diligence for once.  As extra homework go and look up DDJ Harvey's judgement at Lewes on 5 February 2020 (claim number F0HM9E9Z).  He wasn't very happy with made-up sums like Simple Simon's £120 Unicorn Food Tax, was he?

Should your client wish to proceed with this farcical claim, I’ll be seeking recovery of costs on the basis of unreasonable behaviour, as well as damages for breach of GDPR.

 

 

These are just suggestions, hang on a mo and see what others think during the day.

[dx100uk]

Id p'haps remove all hints regarding location??

It could all be sorted should they issue a claim stating the correct location then it will rely upon their earlier faulty paperwork.

of which we dont have a copy of to date and one letter that say the station etc could be explained as a typo.

 

dont alert him!!

[FTMDave]

Very good point dx.  You obviously know Simon's ways very well!  Revised version -

 

 

I write in response to your so-called “Letter Before Claim” received in relation to PCN Numbers VCSxxx & VCSxxxx for alleged parking breaches.

I am writing to confirm that I have no intention of paying this ridiculous made-up sum of money for allegedly breaking some imaginary contract with your client.

You know and I know and now you know that I know all the stuff about bye-laws, prohibition, etc.  This whole claim is a nonsense and I’m sure any judge would agree.  It was a big own goal by your client Simple Simon to include £120 Unicorn Food Tax.  Go and look up DDJ Harvey's judgement at Lewes on 5 February 2020 (claim number F0HM9E9Z).  He wasn't very happy with these invented amounts, was he?

Should your client wish to proceed with this farcical claim, I’ll be seeking recovery of costs on the basis of unreasonable behaviour, as well as damages for breach of GDPR.