SPML/LMC anyone claimed for mis selling and unfair charges?

[enoughisenough]

Hi Ryde

 

No. It's virtually impossible. We need a mole or an investor.

[enoughisenough]

Gallahad:

 

A FORMAL APOLOGY.

 

My choice of language was both intemperate and uncalled for. I apologise unreservedly and hope that we can find common ground to challenge this continued abuse of all consumers of these appalling companies. This debate is far too important for internal strife to be allowed to ignite and divert from the more important tasks. Please accept my sincerest apologies.

[enoughisenough]

Eerily quiet today...

 

Although I did log on around lunchtime and there was me (just me...) and 7 guests. Go figure that one out? It should of course be noted that not all 'guests' are trolls, even if some of them undoubtedly are.

[Gallahad]

Gallahad:

 

A FORMAL APOLOGY.

 

My choice of language was both intemperate and uncalled for. I apologise unreservedly and hope that we can find common ground to challenge this continued abuse of all consumers of these appalling companies. This debate is far too important for internal strife to be allowed to ignite and divert from the more important tasks. Please accept my sincerest apologies.

 

EIE

Your sincere apology is sincerely accepted and I hope you can continue your valuable contributions. I trust in time I can learn enough to assist others to even half the extent you have done.

G

[enoughisenough]

JonCris

 

I see no good reason now for not taking this to Europe on the basis of the francovich principle. It is quite clear that there is enough evidence for a group litigation action, on this very issue. The Bulmer v Bollinger tests include the doctrine of acte claire. There is therefore no need to make an article 234 referral except in the instance of our own courts refusing. My feeling is that those hostile to the UK's membership of the EU are going to try and renegotiate the terms of the Treaty of Rome. Then we will be stuffed as we will no longer have those protections.

 

Just some thoughts. Something needs doing and a year of this stuff has not yielded visible results.

[on*the*case]

 

I am not aware that anyone has mentioned, here or in other threads, that the Queens Speech is likely to have (in the FSA Bill) provision for class or group actions by 'customers' who have a common grievance against any financial institutions. The likelihood is that any such class action will be finally decided by the EU court who will also apply the Francovich Principle.

 

 

I did post this in another thread ( EU Law, Consumer Protections, The FSA, and actions for Damages http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=2580976 ) earlier today.

[enoughisenough]

Hi On the case

 

Yes. I'm aware of you having done so. The contribution you have made is noted. I'm uncertain as to the extent any such bill will receive sufficient parliamentary time or of the transition orders for taking effect. The fact is that we do not need any such enactment. This is a firmly established principle of EU law. EU directives must be given full effect as per their intention. If they are not then the state or an emanation of the state is liable. We don't require any new enactments. If we can't get at Capstone and its cohorts let's get at those protecting them. The FSA and the courts.

[cagger80]

OTC

 

If go back a couple of pages, you will see the post made by Suetonius and Wondermans subsequent "translation"

 

I guess we will find out more later this week

[agatha c]

Thank you everyone for your kind messages x

 

Need to clarify, cheque sent to us was for £129.32 POUNDS.

 

ryde

 

Mortgage 150.000

 

arrears approx. 50.000

 

House sold 425.00

 

No house to compare as is grade 11 georgian property, gated property,

4/5 beds, 4 reception rooms, conservatory, family bathroom shower room,

study. They put it up for sale 399.000 had over 50 viewings, took it of the market and put sold sign up, we foundout someone had put in offer for

450.000, he gave us copy of offer, Estate agent was telling potential buyers no house in that area had ever sold for over £500.000 and he should know as lived in the area, and they would not make any money on it. All of which is untrue. Wrote to Solicitors many times (recorded delivery) I kept telling them house worth at least 550.00 but to no avail, tried to complain about estate agents but told as we did not own house any more, nothing could be done.

 

I have asked so many times (recorded delivery) to give breakdown of costs, but they simply ignore request.

 

Agatha c

[brassed-off-2]

Thank you everyone for your kind messages x

 

Need to clarify, cheque sent to us was for £129.32 POUNDS.

 

ryde

 

Mortgage 150.000

 

arrears approx. 50.000

 

House sold 425.00

 

No house to compare as is grade 11 georgian property, gated property,

4/5 beds, 4 reception rooms, conservatory, family bathroom shower room,

study. They put it up for sale 399.000 had over 50 viewings, took it of the market and put sold sign up, we foundout someone had put in offer for

450.000, he gave us copy of offer, Estate agent was telling potential buyers no house in that area had ever sold for over £500.000 and he should know as lived in the area, and they would not make any money on it. All of which is untrue. Wrote to Solicitors many times (recorded delivery) I kept telling them house worth at least 550.00 but to no avail, tried to complain about estate agents but told as we did not own house any more, nothing could be done.

 

I have asked so many times (recorded delivery) to give breakdown of costs, but they simply ignore request.

 

Agatha c

 

 

Hi Agatha C,

not sure if you have already done so, but if you haven't, then maybe you need to do a dsar on the mortgage company (i am guessing it is capstone you are dealing with?) and possibly a dsar on the solicitors that dealt with the sale, although i,m not sure how viable that would be......anyone offer further advice, on this please?????

 

b-o-2

[h8them]

Have you tried the FOS.

 

Isn't there a rule to say the seller has to get the best possible price.

 

You could send a im to Suetonius. He appears to know a lot about the rules and the laws

[agatha c]

Did this and everything blanked out.

 

Agatha c

[Crapstone]

Makes no difference how many breaches they committ 1 has always sufficed to render the agreement unenforceable re Wilson v County

 

What we have in the Walker judgment is the judiciary once again overriding the Will of Parliament .......... very dodgy......... the courts by way of the government could find themselves in the EU dock for failing to put the beleaguered consumer before big business ie Francovitch v Italy. Then it really will be cast in stone ...... I do hope they take this to Europe

 

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one JonChris. It's usual practice for fees to be added separate to a credit deal and not included in the finance. This case was a secured loan as it's below £25k and small fry compared to what is happening here on first mortgages.

 

I also hope they will take it further as they have nothing left to lose now but finding the costs isn't going to be easy. At least they have put up a fight....If I were in their shoes and gone through what they had, I suspect the creditor would be cashing in cinders. I just hope they get through this and can put it behind them.

[Crapstone]

Agatha C.

 

Is this right?

 

House sold for £425,000

Mortgage was £150,000

Arrears were £50,000

 

Sum after sale was £129.32 or £129,320?

 

How long was it between the arrears starting and the sale of the house?

 

Although it's a massive amount of charges it's easy to see how they mount up. Take the Walkers..from £18k to £40k in 4 years? Same with me .4x the arrears and legal fees without a chance of making a dent in them. Paying £50 per month but was charged anywhere between £65-£115!

 

If it's a repo. they add on estate agents fees, insurance, outstanding mortgage payments, management fees, repair fees and advertising so it all mounts up.

 

There is a rule that the seller has to get the best possible price but this doesn't work in practise as the fees charged outweigh the gain of waiting for the golden offer that benefits the repossessed.

 

Get all your papers in order and complain. Make sure you head everything in large print ..bold and underlined as COMPLAINT.

 

You have to tell them what remedy you are seeking, such as a refund of the charges that you consider unfair or the way the house was sold. Be concise and clear and don't be put off by a lack of response or a pathetic reply. Keep writing..write to your local MP, newspaper...anyone that you can think of.

 

If it were'nt for finding this forum and people in a similar position I'd have given up by now as I thought it was just me that SPML and Capstone had took exception to.

 

If your SAR is anything like my 2 you can hold them up to the light and see what is written behind the marker pen. Send off gain and they'll come back with a different version.

 

Take care Agatha, you need some TLC and time to yourself.

Edited November 17, 2009 by Crapstone

[Crapstone]

 

Just some thoughts. Something needs doing and a year of this stuff has not yielded visible results.

 

I guess that depends on how you look at it EIE. I've had results but possibly only because I have acted and not sat back. You have to complain, complain and complain again. It wears you down but it's better than accepting what's thrown at you.

 

I can only describe it as giving as good as you get but you have to work for it. Tear their arguments and statements apart. Download a mortgage calculator and do the maths. Compare and contrast their fees ..make them answer your questions....you are the consumer that purchased their product. Same as if they bother you by phone..it's your line you pay for so tell them to go whistle Dixie.

[ryde]

[quote name=enoughisenough)

Just some thoughts. Something needs doing and a year of this stuff has not yielded visible results.[/quote]

 

EIE

It probaly has yielded many small victories on an individual scale by giving people the know how and the strength of not being alone to make a valid complaint,stop repos and the like.

To be brutally honest in my opinion few who post here either have the resources in finance or time to get involved in a class action unless it is made extremely easy for them.Most are trying to survive day to day and keep the roof over their head and most are waiting for a miracle or some radical change where this lot go bottoms up the activity on here increases 10 fold when news breaks which may offer a glimmer of hope,but it just ain't going to happen is it? a year after the parent goes under and they're still going,they've got access to the best legal brains in the business and are holding the trump card don't forget and we are fragmented and impoverished.

The only way to defeat them wholesale is by someone winning a high profile court case which then acts as a precedent for others.

ITBG has the right idea report the b......s every way you can and to anyone who will listen,make it constantly difficult for them and there might just be a result.

If people are waiting for the govt or legislation its going to be a long long wait and for many too long as repos are being stepped up.

When you look at the learned people and the submissions made eg mr fulcher,carmel butler and how long ago ,you despair at how long this has been allowed to continue,but at least the fsa seems to have excluded them from the friendly banker brotherhood club and is set to cane them.

From my point of view I need them to go bust in 2 months or find an investor contract (the possible diamond that unravels it all) that shows they do not have title to sue otherwise could be sunk.

I thought mistakenly that everyone wanted a national platform to air their grievances thats why I posted the Sunday Express link but this was met with apathy and only 3 replies(one ignorant b...d even blamed us for getting in this position, implying sub primers were white trailer type trash!!!! probably a b?anker.)

Anyway its late and I'm frustrated and in despair so will pray for a bloody miracle to happen very very soon.

Edited November 17, 2009 by ryde

[gustavius rex]

Hi Guys,

 

Have just had a scroll down the various posts and it's more depressing stuff than my own current health condition.

 

EiE, lTBG, Crapstone, Ryde and all the rest, you've all done such a great job, found out so much of value and contributed such a wealth of information, that you should all be very proud of your achievments. You have to look at what you are up against. A government and financial establishment that work hand in hand, not out of love, but, out of necessety. l am sorry that l'm currently so busy saving my own bacon, but, if l cannot come up with a new ''theory of relativity'' within a week, l'm toasted and out on my ass and on the street. Guy's, l'm fighting for my very life and existance. l do not want to cram this site full with my own sh..e, the lender in this case is not one of the Lehman outfits. l preferr to keep this place dedicated to the public prosecution of those particular crooks. But, whatever happens, do not give up, do not get frustrated and rest assured, in the end we shall all prevail. EiE is right about Europe and perhaps this is the only way we have to make things right. l have a meeting with a solicitor this week and shall discuss this matter with him. However, after having just been through a trial of the real type, l'm still in a bit of shock over the outdated system, medevial procedures and lack of true equality under the law. l am actually reeling after having won what was important and it will surely take me a while to re-group for the next battle. Meanwhile, l'm keeping up to speed and shall shortly be back in full force soon.

 

GR

[ryde]

GR

Thanks for encouragement,sounds like you are working through the night! if you need any help it's here , it's always diverting and easier dealing with someone else's problems than your own especially if you can help them get a result.

[andrew1]

You guys are all amazing on here..I've been on CAG for 3 yrs and believe me, as has been said before taking on these companies is no easy task and it does need that constant battling, researching and painstaking energy to keep going whilst also trying to get things done before the removal vans arrive to throw you out.

 

I've had severe battles myself, but one thing I can say is these companies do not have inpenaterable armour, they are often too clever for their own good and far to complacent. You need to keep researching, look at their accounts, their debentures, their agreements, their practices, their Directors what they are also involved in, believe me you will find what you are looking for staring you in the face...I know.

 

Their Lending Policy documents...every company has one - have you applied for that? It's like the holy grail of these companies policies, they despise letting it go, but it's there.....keep going and don't give up..try every means possible to get stays on your repo's and just keep going and never give up - the synergy of this forum and everyone's individual contributions will as GR says, win the day. These sub-prime companies are the pits, where they get their morals from defies belief, but it will come back on them -it surely will.

 

I admire all your courage, but keep at it there are so many behind you trying to win this battle.

 

andrew1

[not another b----- letter]

Hi Guys,

 

 

 

EiE, lTBG, Crapstone, Ryde and all the rest, you've all done such a great job, found out so much of value and contributed such a wealth of information, that you should all be very proud of your achievments. You have to look at what you are up against.

 

GR

 

Hi all

I agree with the above you are doing a great job, only been on CAG for a week but have learnt a lot and still learning, many many thanks to you all, may not be able to contribute much but with you all the way.

 

Agatha c

You have had it worse than most, in our thoughts, keep your chin up

revenge could be just around the corner.

 

NABL

[enoughisenough]

Seems I'm doing a lot of this lately.

 

I apologise to the group in general for appearing to strike a note of gloom and doom. I am all too aware of the many smaller scale victories which take place behind the scenes here, and I am hugely indebted to those who continue to fight in this way. Perhaps I was referring to a GMAC-RFC like situation when I said there had been no visible results. So...we keep going of course.

 

KTF. EiE.

[enoughisenough]

GR

 

What exactly might you need in the way of 'a new theory of relativity'? Let's get some collective CAG brains on this. Away from prying eyes of course - you cannot be allowed to become toast as you put it. And none of us here will care that much if it happens to be another lender. They are all as bad as each other.

[eagleforms]

Absolutely EiE. GR has done us proud, let us help if we can.

[enoughisenough]

Apologies if the accompanying picture ruins anyone's breakfast.

 

Nils Pratley: 'New' FSA powers tackling bonuses are hardly revolutionary | Business | guardian.co.uk

 

There is indeed 'something of the Knight' attached to the forces of darkness!

 

Hi A1, thanks for the encouraging words of support. Much appreciated.

Edited November 17, 2009 by enoughisenough

[enoughisenough]

Originally posted by Ryde

 

When you look at the learned people and the submissions made eg mr fulcher,carmel butler and how long ago ,you despair at how long this has been allowed to continue,but at least the fsa seems to have excluded them from the friendly banker brotherhood club and is set to cane them.

 

I do so hope that you are right. They simply cannot let these evil barstewards get away it. Let's hope it's a case of saving the best till last. A good caning. I like that.