Mutating Corona Virus

[honeybee13]

Quite a number of French health professionals didn't want to be vaxxed. Most of them had to decide in August whether to be vaxxed or lose their jobs a few weeks later.

 

I know of two sisters who are nurses, they'd refused to be vaccinated until then but decided to go with it because they needed to work. The daughter of one of them is still holding out, although her partner is vaccinated.

[tobyjugg2]

I dont listen to Johnson presentations anymore HB

 

Re vaccine v lockdowns - too many people still aren't wearing masks despite (even if Omicron is as mild in effect as it seems due to vaccinaction) at least a major 'flu outbreak' level pandemic in progress

 

and what we dont seem to know yet is the damage outside the lungs that Omicron may be causing.

 

[honeybee13]

I can't watch or listen to Johnson, it makes me want to hit things. I read a summary later. 

[tobyjugg2]

Aren't current plans to deal with shortage of pcrs and lfts

 

* to not bother with PCRs for confirmation after positive lft,

- i can largely see some sense in that - provided lfts are supplied that is

 

and not bother with tests before flights (and presumably cruises?)

- twatish Numpties IMO.

[honeybee13]

I don't agree with a lot of the proposals. We know someone who had a false positive LFT and then tested negative with a PCR. If that happens it's disruptive if you can't have a PCR to confirm.

 

Are you meant to keep taking LFTs [if you can get them, as you say] until you get two or three negative ones? When you weren't positive in the first place.

[tobyjugg2]

Lets not forget that Johnsons policy, no matter what, whether PCR's or LFTs are available, until the NHS is on its knees, and even if

'the ****ing bodies pile high' ..

 

and

'Carry on lying

.. or should that be Carrie and lying

[tobyjugg2]

Well, hope this is wrong, but I think I just saw that France is considering requiring Covid positive health/key staff (with few/no symptoms)return to work

 

Height of stupidity in my opinion if true

 

Address staff shortages due to infections by sending infected people back in to suposedly safe environments to infect more colleagues and patients!

Lunacy.

 

Mind you, the ERG will have a hard decision if so, cheer on Macron or condemn him for implementing what they are seeking ...

 

Edited January 5, 2022 by tobyjugg2

[theoldrouge]

One can only imagine the howls of anger on here had it been Johnson rather than Napoleon who used such unstatesmanlike language 

This is Macron the new French Nationalist , the same Macron, who on the night of his election came on stage at his victory party, not to the sound of the French national anthem, but to the strains of the dismal euro ditty, Ode to Woe

[tobyjugg2]

What 'unstatesmanlike' language do you refer?

 

Still awaiting you supply some valid evidence re your prior false allegations about vaccinations causing more harm than covd

Edited January 5, 2022 by tobyjugg2

[theoldrouge]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-59873833

[tobyjugg2]

Ah that

 

Surely you aren't trying to claim Pickaninny, letterbox, let the ***** bodies pile high, eye testing 60 mile drive hero, bent as a banana Johnson 'THE Corrupt Liar' hasn't said worse, or has actually ever said better?

 

and still awaiting some valid support of your false claims re vaccination?

Edited January 5, 2022 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

15 hours ago, unclebulgaria67 said:

Agree with Macron, that those who are not vaccinated should be faced with how their decision affects their freedoms.

 

I am surprised by the number of health professionals I have come across who have not been vaccinated yet, because they believe on balance it is not the right choice for them at the moment.  Some are young women, who have concerns about fertility, similar to a post to this site recently. 

 

Health professionals + vaccine denial seems not just an oxymoron, but a complete conflict of realities to me.

Health professional + pregnant + vaccine denial ... I just dont have a description at the moment ..

 

Dont get me wrong - I think I understand the doubts which lying **** feed and fester for some deviant reason,

but the clear and defined actual RISKS of severe harm or death Covid brings to an unborn baby and mother - double the risk of stillborn, and treble the risk of premature birth reported from credible quality sources if the mother gets covid - overwhelmingly outweighs any slight possibility of theoretically not against the laws of physics but actually vanishingly unlikely future issue caused by a vaccine which doesn't warrant more than quickly passing consideration at most.

 

The ingredients and effects of the components of these vaccines are well known.  Even the mRNA component is decades old technology.

Are they guaranteed 100% safe - not quite,

BUT getting covid pretty much guarantees harm - its just how much harm that varies, but DOES include a significant risk of the death of you, mother, child, family and friends as well as a lot of significant damage falling short of  killing you and/or your loved ones

- and vaccination pretty much guarantees to reduce the harm - significantly

 

- and spaces in ambulances and hospitals are getting hard to find.

 

 

Circa 2,000 covid hospitalisations a day

Over a million people with debilitating symptoms described as 'long covid'

over 330 people reported DEAD of covid in just the last 24 hours with well over a thousand DEAD in just the last week - and rising

- Thats pretty damn real

Edited January 5, 2022 by tobyjugg2

[honeybee13]

Here's a Twitter thread on ventilating schools, with links to other studies.

 

 

[brassnecked]

Meanwhile another one for discussion

Covid: crisis, what crisis? | Turbulent Times

WWW.TURBULENTTIMES.CO.UK

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With the resumption of normal hostilities after the Christmas break, the media is full of Covid stories, with the NHS crisis high up in the...

 

[tobyjugg2]

see below

Edited January 6, 2022 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

Summary:

 

Only 330 deaths a day from covid?? Still got some unused ventilators?

Thats not seeing a Covid crisis, per se

- Come back when its over 900 a day dying and we've run out of ventilators

 

15 hour waits in ambulances?

- thats luxury, when I were a lad we dragged ourselves to the corner shop for a ha'penny plaster when we blew our legs off playing with WWII fireworks, and 'were back working at pit for the night shift.

 

 

Edited January 6, 2022 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

+

Bloody heck lad

They'll be letting health staff who test positive not turn up for work next ...

 

and They'll be wanting old folk who have the 'covid cold' stay in hospital isolation rather than go back to their pals in the homes before you know it ..

 

 

and dont start me on these NHS skivers doing multiple test until they test positive - a ridiculous two tests a week has been reported and some want even more - well getting our middleman to stop delivering them has squashed that

Edited January 6, 2022 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

and he actually seems to be blaming the NHS for not implementing the 'nightingale hospitals' when everyone with half a clue knows that the policy and funding was defined and driven by the Johnson government

 

Piers Morgan

 

Has that site been hijacked?

Edited January 6, 2022 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

‘Very rare’ bird flu case detected in person in England

WWW.INDEPENDENT.CO.UK

---

Bird to human transmission of avian flu is rare, occurring only a small number of times in UK

 

[honeybee13]

From TJ. Well, hope this is wrong, but I think I just saw that France is considering requiring Covid positive health/key staff (with few/no symptoms)return to work

 

I haven't seen that. According to the health service/social security website, someone with an up to date vaccine record can stop isolating five days after having symptoms or testing positive, if they have a negative test and no symptoms.

 

Different rules for unvaxxed or people with an incomplete record.

 

 

En cas de test positif au Covid-19

WWW.AMELI.FR

---

Que faire lorsque le test de dépistage à la Covid-19 est positif ? Pour se protéger et protéger ses proches, il est important de chercher ses cas...

 

[tobyjugg2]

France allows some COVID-19-infected medics to keep working | AP News

APNEWS.COM

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LE PECQ, France (AP) — France is allowing health care workers who are infected with the coronavirus but have few or no symptoms to...

 

 

Not sure how true as yet

[honeybee13]

Well, I'm amazed. Can't say I'd want to be treated or looked after by someone who's got covid, even without symptoms. I hope they give people the choice on whether they want to be treated by an infectious person.

[theoldrouge]

 

and still awaiting some valid support of your false claims re vaccination?

 

and what claims would they be?

As I fully support vaccination, kindly either support or withdraw your accusation 

[tobyjugg2]

56 minutes ago, theoldrouge said:

 

and still awaiting some valid support of your false claims re vaccination?

 

and what claims would they be?

As I fully support vaccination, kindly either support or withdraw your accusation 

 

I apologise unreservedly given your statement

Seems clear I misunderstood a support of vaccination causing problems (anti-vax)

Edited January 6, 2022 by tobyjugg2

[BazzaS]

On 05/01/2022 at 11:45, honeybee13 said:

I don't agree with a lot of the proposals. We know someone who had a false positive LFT and then tested negative with a PCR. If that happens it's disruptive if you can't have a PCR to confirm.

 

It is because of

a) availability of PCR's, (it makes sense to reduce unnecessary demand if the supply isn't enough).

b) Positive predictive value, ('PPV', which rises as prevalence rises, while sensitivity and specificity remain constant), and

c) the impact of a false +ve on the individual vs. the impact of the false +ve on society.

 

for b), lets say for (purely for sake of illustration, not based on any COVOD-19 real-world example) that for 100 people tested  there is one false +ve.

If there are 2 true positives in those 100 people, then there are 3 positives total, but one third of those 3 are false positives (PPV=2/3=66/7%)

Yet if there are 20 true positives in those 100 people, then there are 21 positives, and one 21st of those are false positives (PPV=20/21=95.2%)

 

One in 3 false positives, not acceptable, so they use PCR to confirm. One in 21 false positives, acceptable to society that that some people will have to self-isolate unnecessarily, (even if it is rotten for that one person .....). Still only one person in 100 having a false positive, but a shift in the proportion of the total positives that are false positives from 1 out of 3 to 1 out of 21.

 

If there was an endless supply of PCR slots, and the cost of PCRs (against the societal cost of someone having to isolate when they don't need to!), then it'd still make sense to do PCR confirmation (absence of factor a), and comparing factor b) against factor c).

When you couple b) with the PCR tests running out of booking slots (a) as case number soar ... you stop confirmatory testing ( as long as c) isn't an over-riding major factor!.