Mutating Corona Virus

[theoldrouge]

On 27/10/2022 at 10:37, tobyjugg2 said:

Numerous studies that show that both those statements are misleading and unsuited to the situation

 

1. Coronavirus is fast mutating with a known penchant for evading prior immunity

2. The vaccine ADDS to immunity, a large increase in many cases

3. That many are in the realms of vaccine boosted immunity, whether prior infected or not, is about the only thing that gives any, albeit false, credence to those tw*ts quoted (many of whom like Trump probably used the antibody treatments etc in secret)

 

4. take up in covid vaccination seems to be falling, so just like the increases in the old childhood MMR diseases, Covid is likely to increase its spread again this winter. Shame these tosswads wont be held to account for what they say on a public platform paid for by the public.

Sadly it isn't JUST the refuseniks and deniers who will suffer, especially the ones who get vaccinated plus every other paid for safeguard while claiming that sort of horse crap.

not unsuited statements at all
numerous opposing views emerging
as in the following peer reviewed paper from Australia

 

Natural immunity ignored

It is an amazing fact that natural immunity is completely disregarded by health authorities around the world. We know from SARS- CoV-1 that natural immunity is durable and persists for at least 12-17 years [17]. Immunologists have suggested that immunity to SARS-Cov-2 is no different. The human population has encountered and co-existed with a great number of coronaviruses throughout evolution. Most of us have cross-reacting T-cells, B cells and antibodies derived from encounters with common cold coronaviruses that can recognise SARS-CoV-2 [18-20]. A survey of more than 100 immunologists, infectious-disease researchers and virologists working on the coronavirus, who were asked whether the virus could be eradicated, showed that almost 90% of respondents believe that the coronavirus will become endemic [21]. The four human coronaviruses that cause common colds are also endemic, without there ever having been a vaccine for any of them. The existence of related viruses might explain that approximately 40% to 45% of COVID infected people are asymptomatic and about 80% of COVID cases are mild infections. In some cohorts, the asymptomatic infection figure jumps as high as 96% depending on the age and cross-immunity imparted by other viruses such as beta coronaviruses HCoV-OC43 and HCoV- HKU1, which have been proposed as a mitigating factor in the spread of SARS-CoV-2 [22-23].

The Brownstone institute has established the most updated and comprehensive library list of 150 of the highest-quality, complete, and robust scientific studies and evidence reports/position statements on natural immunity as compared to the COVID-19 vaccine-induced immunity. The consensus of these studies is that immunity induced by COVID infection is robust and long lasting (https://brownstone.org/articles/79-research-studies-affirm- naturally-acquired-immunity-to-covid-19-documented-linked- and-quoted/).

Volume 7 | Issue 3 | 492

When comparing the immune response to vaccination and natural infection, differences in the responses were detected. For example, a strong upregulation of genes associated with type I interferon production, cytotoxicity and an increase in circulating plasmablasts were only observed after natural infections [24]. In contrast, mRNA vaccines seem to suppress interferon responses [25]. A literature review by Cardozo and Veazev [26] concluded that COVID-19 vaccines could potentially worsen COVID-19 disease through antibody-dependent enhancement when natural infection occurs after vaccination, regardless of the delivery mechanism - vector or LNP containing RNA – of the nucleic acid coding for the spike protein.

A retrospective cohort study from Sweden revealed that individuals who survived and recovered from a previous infection had a lower risk of COVID-19 re-infection and hospitalisation for up to 20 months.


The paper in full here
https://opastpublishers.com/open-access/covid-19-vaccines-an-australian-review.pdf

[tobyjugg2]

By someone from the Queensland Alliance for Agriculture and food innovation

I gave it 2 minutes, which was more than it seems worth - and as expected.

 

Random half dozen samples of claims appear to be lots of opinion supported by opinion links supported by out of context half sentences, or supported by the brownstone Institute - an anti-lockdown right wing thinktank

... Pitiful - apart from the seemingly very appropriate name .... Aussies do tend to have a direct sense of humor eh?

 

Wazzup/ Cant find owt to support your opinion in pubmed, let alone nature or new scientist?

(No surprises there)

 

.. or just thought I'd be bamboozled by it very superficially looking like something genuine?

Edited October 28, 2022 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

"Two (of the) new strains of coronavirus have emerged in the UK, health officials have warned."

 

"More than 700 cases of the mutant BQ.1 variant have been detected across the country with a further 18 cases of the so-called XBB variant.

Both XBB and BQ.1 (descandants of the highly transmissible Omicron variant) are very immune evasive and may even be immune to current vaccines"

 

Neither is yet flagged as a variant of concern.

 

"According to the Biozentrum research facility at the University of Basel, which has been studying the evolution of the virus since the pandemic started, there is a “collective” of subvariants that are showing an ability to spread rapidly."

 

 

Biozentrum - Biozentrum

WWW.BIOZENTRUM.UNIBAS.CH

 

 

Easy read

Two new Covid variants found in UK with hundreds of cases detected

WWW.INDEPENDENT.CO.UK

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The UK Health and Security Agency has warned rapid growth has been identified in the strains

 

 

[brassnecked]

Are they related to the ones in that Boston Lab the Gain Of Function research was done that mixed Delta and Omicron to make one that killed 80% of the mice, the Research that is now subject to question?

Subscribe to read | Financial Times

WWW.FT.COM

---

News, analysis and comment from the Financial Times, the worldʼs leading global business publication

 

[tobyjugg2]

No, neither are we genetically selected to be particularly susceptible to covid as those test mice were

.. unless the leak in the lizard overlords lair has informed you otherwise?

 

If you'd followed the links - even the easy read one, you would have seen stain info

 

 

[tobyjugg2]

3 hours ago, brassnecked said:

Are they related to the ones in that Boston Lab the Gain Of Function research was done that mixed Delta and Omicron to make one that killed 80% of the mice, the Research that is now subject to question?

Subscribe to read | Financial Times

WWW.FT.COM

---

News, analysis and comment from the Financial Times, the worldʼs leading global business publication

 

 

 

So @brassnecked

 

Did you miss/ignore/or not even look, to miss that the experiment that resulted in that particular mutation was one of a range of tests/experiments done because that is the the sort of thing that the virus is doing in the wild?

 

let alone that they were trying to analyse and prepare for that?

[theoldrouge]

6 hours ago, tobyjugg2 said:

By someone from the Queensland Alliance for Agriculture and food innovation

I gave it 2 minutes, which was more than it seems worth - and as expected.

 

Random half dozen samples of claims appear to be lots of opinion supported by opinion links supported by out of context half sentences, or supported by the brownstone Institute - an anti-lockdown right wing thinktank

... Pitiful - apart from the seemingly very appropriate name .... Aussies do tend to have a direct sense of humor eh?

 

Wazzup/ Cant find owt to support your opinion in pubmed, let alone nature or new scientist?

(No surprises there)

 

.. or just thought I'd be bamboozled by it very superficially looking like something genuine?

Of course it has to be noted that the opinion of any health care professional, GP, Virologist, Cardiac Specialist who differs from the narrative of the WHO, big tech or big pharma , the narrative that you have swallowed hook line and sinker , is ridiculed and dismissed 

However it also has to be noted that we are still waiting to be informed as to whether you actually personally hold any medical qualifications so any future reader of this thread can judge for themselves as to whether your views have a smidgen of credence when you state that a leading cardiac specialist who gave evidence last Friday to the vaccine safety committee at Westminster is indeed “full of horseshit and crap” , a view with which the committee did not of course concur

[tobyjugg2]

ROFL

You do realise that claiming

'they are all lying and only the right wing think tank funded differing opinion I had to search the other side of the world for is right'

 

.. with 'they' quite literally as you state being the BMA, WHO, and every major, medium and even small medical organisations and labs across the world (even the Aussie ones)

 

is quite literally conspiracy nut territory don't you?

 

Heck your linked 'expert' isnt even in the field, just like 'quantum tunneling nobel prize winner' whos dragged out as a conspiracy nuts 'expert

 

There are some actual potential issues which no-one of sense denies, but you can't even come up with those .. and pull out Icke-ian nutjobs claiming the few exceptions are the rule and its a world-wide conspiracy - except these brownstone funded 'reports' aren't nutjobs - they are just feeding the nutjobs.

Its telling that it IS he brownstones and other 'thinktanks' with political agendas of this world are the conspiracy - NOT the BMA, WHO etc

 

Tell you what - take a trip to see your linked Australian chap, then at least you'll have some evidence for your own eyes that the world isn't flat.

 

[theoldrouge]

Oxford Study Finds Negative Vaccine Effectiveness Against Covid Hospitalisation and Death

https://dailysceptic.org/2022/10/29/oxford-study-finds-negative-vaccine-effectiveness-against-covid-hospitalisation-and-death/

[tobyjugg2]

ROFL (you really are making yourself appear stupid (at best))

 

Did you even read the actual study and what it ACTUALLY says

Heres the conclusion - verbatim

 

Conclusions

We found strong evidence of waning in VE/rVE for Doses 1 and 2 of ChAdOx1, as well as Dose 1 of BNT162b2. This evidence may be used to inform policies on timings of additional doses of vaccine.

 

aka

The increased immunity acquired from the vaccines fades over time, and some vaccines are more effective than others.

NO F****** doodoo sherlock

 

 

Heres his blog - good luck (dont subscribe before looking)

"He blogs at Bartram’s Folly."

 

 

Edited October 29, 2022 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

and ignoring @theoldrougefatuous claims that a link to a 'paper 'interpreted' falsely by the brownstone group and its allies was an Oxford paper itself

(the Oxford study itself was NOT linked by @theoldrouge just a selective misinterpretation)

 

Simple Uk stats

* Over 12,000 people in hospital with Covid at last report

* Just short of 30% of confirmed covid infections are confirmed reinfections

(That means at least and there may be a lot more reinfections)

[tobyjugg2]

Oh @theoldrouge, and now both your links have proven to be poobah and the second actually a study on how long before you need a booster,

are you now converted by all the legitimate information?

 

if not, would that be because of:

1. Incompetence (not checking your own hard sought links veracity) - you were fooled and are determined to remain such

2. dishonesty (you did check, but hoped no one else would) and you are part of the conspiracy which claims everyone else is conspiring

3. Something else (we need a definition)

[unclebulgaria67]

I'd rather go with the weight of scientific opinion including those who are experts in a specific field.

 

Taking the risk of not being vaccinated, would be like driving a car without a seatbelt, hoping not to have an accident.

[tobyjugg2]

and in both cases, you cannot depend on your own care and competence to keep you out of trouble, as some loon could come charging around a blind corner and cough in your face, or crash into your car

 

That is a huge issue with coronavirus - the mechanisms we have apart from and over and above vaccine, aka masks, cleanliness, distance, not coughing in peoples faces, depend on the competence and sense of others more than yourself, and right wingers do seem to be notoriously self centered

 

 

lets unchristianly hope all the covid deniers and anti-vaxxers all live near each other and not us

 

[brassnecked]

Just an aside TJ regarding masks, do you consider it sensible to drive in a mask on your own in a vehicle?  Saw someone yesterday alone in an SUV masked up, nearly hit a pedestrian in Aldi car park, glasses steamed up apparently as mask not worn properly.

[honeybee13]

I wouldn't see the need to wear a mask if I was on my own, but surely any sensible person would make sure they could see properly.

[tobyjugg2]

1 hour ago, brassnecked said:

Just an aside TJ regarding masks, do you consider it sensible to drive in a mask on your own in a vehicle?  Saw someone yesterday alone in an SUV masked up, nearly hit a pedestrian in Aldi car park, glasses steamed up apparently as mask not worn properly.

 

Even an occasion mask wearer can rarely occasionally be as utterly stupid and senseless as the deniers and mask refuseniks eh?

 

Stupidity isn't exclusive to refuseniks - although it sometimes seems that way, and does seem to be where we see it most commonly

Edited October 30, 2022 by tobyjugg2

[honeybee13]

Times article today with some fact-checking of MPs' statements on the vaccine.

 

Andrew Bridgen, the MP for North West Leicestershire, questioned why “the [coronavirus] vaccine was given to people who had natural immunity because they had probably contracted the virus”. He also cited debunked statistics, claiming that there was an “84 per cent increase in the relative incidence of cardiac-related death among males aged 18 to 39” following vaccination.

The study to which Bridgen referred — which has not been peer-reviewed or published in an academic journal — was widely criticised by public health experts for lack of evidence and potential methodological failures. Fact-checkers described the study, conducted by the Florida Department of Health, as misleading.

Chope, who was criticised by the UK Statistics Authority in June for making baseless claims in parliament about the safety of coronavirus vaccines, used his speech to encourage those present to watch a film he took part in produced by Oracle Films, an antivax conspiracy group that had their account suspended by Paypal last year after claiming that vaccines could alter DNA.

archive.ph

ARCHIVE.PH

 

[tobyjugg2]

I see Gale and the rabids also continue railing against immigrants ..

.. but we've left the EU .. surely that solved it didn't it - thats what the brexi-tish campaigners assured us again and again

.... and we haven't even signed the India deal yet ..............

 

Surely the Leave campaign wasn't lying to us ...

Edited October 31, 2022 by tobyjugg2

[theoldrouge]

So no medical qualifications not even a Boy Scout first aid badge eh @tobyjugg2
Just blindly following the WHO
Heres another one from a proper expert Dr Who
 

https://rwmalonemd.substack.com/p/update-coronavax-safety-in-the-netherlands

[honeybee13]

Why the laughing emoji, TOR?

 

I can't see who has peer reviewed Dr Malone's work.

[tobyjugg2]

+1

and posted onsubstack .. because its already been flagged as misinformation elsewhere

 

 

so tell us, @theoldrouge, with detail and proper support, what that is supposed to be saying, and why its funny

- Seems to me the only actual facts there show that since the covid epidemic started there are excess deaths?

 

Yes we know that, -  caused by a lack of vaccination + care /- covid + secondary issues caused by covid and lack of investment in the NHS and the Nightingale Hospital 'plan in the UK (on top of incompetent populist mismanagement)?

 

NOT caused by vaccination, and actually massively mitigated by vaccination across the world as repeatedly evidenced.

 

 

 

[tobyjugg2]

nytimes.com

WWW.NYTIMES.COM

 

 

Robert Malone made multiple misleading or unsubstantiated claims about COVID-19 and vaccines on The Joe Rogan Experience podcast

HEALTHFEEDBACK.ORG

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The highly contagious Omicron variant has led to record numbers of COVID-19 cases worldwide. Although COVID-19 vaccines are much less...

 

 

PolitiFact - Who is Robert Malone? Joe Rogan’s guest was a vaccine scientist, became an anti-vaccine darling

WWW.POLITIFACT.COM

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Dr. Robert Malone, the guest on a controversial episode of Joe Rogan’s podcast, has spread misinformation about the COVID-19 vaccines and...

 

 

Majority of Covid misinformation came from 12 people, report finds | Coronavirus | The Guardian

WWW.THEGUARDIAN.COM

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CCDH finds ‘disinformation dozen’ have combined following of 59 million people across multiple social media platforms

 

Edited October 31, 2022 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

4 hours ago, honeybee13 said:

Why the laughing emoji, TOR?

 

I can't see who has peer reviewed Dr Malone's work.

 

perhaps he's laughing because he can get away with posting covid disinformation here thats already been banned even from twitter where the accounts were closed for posting covid misinformation

.. well prior to musk

 

What that is trying to claim is that excess deaths are caused by the vaccine because there are still excess deaths as vaccines roll out

 

We have of course already debunked that here with official figures that show once significant vaccinations had occurred, hospitalisations and deaths have occurred in the unvaccinated at multiple times of those that have occurred in the vaccinated, despite the mutation rate of the virus.

 

Further vaccine evasion by mutated strains and lowering of booster takeup are confusing the issue somewhat, so expect more of this utter shite posted by the few.

There are already signs that twitter is becoming an open house for this sort of crap again.

 

[tobyjugg2]

So why am I posting this in this thread

 

Some may not be aware that Covid, and other arguably more deadly disease monitoring is carried out by sampling human poo.

So here is that human poo being discharged into our waterways and coastlines where children swim and play

- and the right wing presses attitude to that

 

f***ing dangerous disgrace by the populists and their papers, a true return to dickensian human excrement spreading disease in our time

Hope their supporters are enjoying lots of literally britishitt shellfish (oops typo)

 

Daily Mail quotes parody MP advocating for more sewage dumping

WWW.THELONDONECONOMIC.COM

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Sir Michael Take (Mickey Take) shared footage of sewage being "sensibly" dispersed at a Cornish beach on social media.

 

 

Edited November 1, 2022 by tobyjugg2