PCM PCN claim form - at a place Ive never parked at!!

[sicktodeathofthem]

Hi everyone out there. I am seeking a quick bit of advice; and will try to make this as short as possible.

 

On 2/7/2017 I got a Parking charge in the form of a letter (relevant),from Parking Control Management (PCM).

The claim was that I had not paid a PCN they'd issued and they want £100.

 

Two initial issues:

(1) I did not receive any prior notice - eg stuck to the car.

(2) This was likely due to the fact that I had never been anywhere near the place they claimed I was wrongly parked.

 

I googled the place and discovered that it is a block of flats some 5 miles away managed by the same people who manage my block (L&Q). And both blocks have PCM in attendance - so tat might be a possible cause of the mix-up.

 

Maybe I could have obtained clarification if I'd phoned PCM

- but the advice I've gleaned over the years from consumer websites is NEVER engage with these people.

So I didn't.

 

Over the following months I got the usual piles of letters from debt collectots and then Gladstones solicitors - all totally ignored.

 

HOWEVER a couple of days ago I got a claim form from the Northampton County Court.

PCM are now claiming I owe them £335.76 (not inc court and legal costs)

 

I'm hoping to get my defence back to Northampton by 22nd March - Please is there anyone out there who would know how best to handle this.

 

Obviously my defence is that 'I didn't do it'

- BUT do I just enter this on the form and hope for the best?

 

Should I/could I get a Statutory Declaration?

Because ultimately it's going to come down to who the Court believes

- Am I being naïve to think a Stat Dec looks more believable?

 

I would welcome any advice or comments a.s.a.p. Thank you

Sandra

[DragonFly1967]

OK. Copy and paste from this thread https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?465231-Received-a-Court-Claim-From-A-Private-parking-Speculative-invoice-How-To-Deal-With-It-HERE***Updated-Aug-2016***(1-Viewing)-nbsp with your answers.

 

Once we know those details, we can tailor a response. Probably just a simple 2 line defence for now.

[sicktodeathofthem]

Thank you for your interest.

 

I followed the link you provided but I'm not really up on this sort of thing. Can I provide the info required using this simple 'reply' function?

 

Or, if I can scan all the relevant documents how do I get them to you? I can't see the usual paper clip icon?

 

Sorry to be a pain but I don't actively engage with websites much so not up on the conventions.

 

Sandra

[honeybee13]

Hi.

 

All you need to do is copy and paste the questions from the link onto this thread and add your answers.

 

HB

[ericsbrother]

When you have the details of when this supposed evnt was try and work out where you would have been at the time so for example, if shopping find a copy of your shooping payment receipt (bank statement) this will then sink any claim thye have without any extra effort

[sicktodeathofthem]

I can't seem to do anything with the link provided; likely my fault as I'm not used to this sort of thing. I'd like to scan a couple of documents over but can't. But I can relay the info that is required - as follows:

 

Issue date: 12/03/2018

Claimant: Parking Control Management Ltd

 

Claimant's solicitors: Gladstones, Warrington

 

PARTICULARS OF CLAIM: exactly as written on the court form:

 

1.The driver of the vehicle registration XXXXXXX(the "Vehicle") incurred the parking charge(s) on 02/07/2017 & 23/06/2017 for breaching the terms of parking on the land at Battery & Shipwright Court - IG11 / Westside Apartments - IG1.

 

 

2. The defendant was driving the Vehicle and/or is the Keeper of the Vehicle.

 

 

3.AND THE CLAIMANT CLAIMS £320 for Parking Charges / Damages and indemnity costs if applicable, together with interest of £15.75 pursuant to s69 of the County Courts Act 1994 at 8% pa, continuing to judgement at £0.07 per day"

 

Amount claimed: £335.76

Court fee: £35

Legal Reps costs: £50

TOTAL AMOUNT: £420.76

 

The rest of the Court papers, as you know, are the Response pack, Acknowledgement of service, Admission, Defence and Counterclaim.

 

My observations on the POC

 

(a) It appears to refer to 2 alleged contraventions: the one dated 02/07/2017 refers to Battery & Shipwright Court (a place I had never heard of nor been to) and the one dated 23/06/2017 is Westside Apartments which is the block I live in.

 

(b) .

From previous correspondence I know this reference number relates only to the Battery & Shipwright court alleged contravention - not the Westside apartments one. Should they be bringing 2 separate cases while only providing the reference for one?

 

© I'd be interested in seeing a copy of the original PCN - ie what was stuck on the car for the Battery & Shipwright court one because, as I've said, I have never been to this place; nor, indeed, has my car!!

 

(d) I looked up the date 02/07/2017 on my calendar.

It was a Sunday and I don't normally go out on that day.

Unfortunately, I live alone so there is no-one to corroborate this.

I can't think how I can confirm that I was at home at 12:47!

 

(e) No photos were sent with the letters but I did manage to see them online.

I'd scan them over if I knew how to do it on this website, not that there's much to see.

 

 

There are pictures of my car - but they could have been taken anywhere.

In each picture the car takes up about 80% of the space with the background showing bits of wall, windows and railings but nothing to indicate the actual location.

 

I would be grateful for any help you could give in this matter.

Look forward to hearing from you,

Edited March 17, 2018 by dx100uk
spacing/removal of pers info

[dx100uk]

why cant you scan up letters?

read upload

[dx100uk]

pop up on the MCOL website detailed on the claimform.

.

register as an individual

note the long gateway number given

then log in

.

select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box.

.

then using the details required from the claimform

.

defend all

leave jurisdiction unticked.

click thru to the end

confirm and exit MCOL.

.

 

get a CPR 31:14 request running to the solicitors

.

type your name ONLY

 

no need to sign anything

.

you DO NOT await the return of paperwork.

you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform.

 

CPR31:14

 

to the solicitors

 

[Your address]

.

 

[Their address [solicitors]

.

[Date]

.

 

Dear Sir or Madam,

.

Re: (Claimant's name) v (Your name) Case No:

.

CPR 31.14 Request

.

On (date) I received the Claim Form in this case issued by you out of the (Name) county court.

.

I confirm having returned my acknowledgement of service to the court in which I indicate my intention to contest all of your claim.

.

Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of [each of the following / the] document(s) mentioned in your Particulars of Claim:

.

1. the contract between [parking company name] and the landowner that assigns the right to enter into contracts with the public and make claims in their own name,.

.

2.proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and Country Planning Act 2007

.

3.copies of the notice to driver, notice to keeper and any other correspondence from [insert Claimant Name] & [insert Solicitors Name} to the defendant that they intend to rely upon in court.

.

You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the document(s) I have requested are disclosed at your earliest convenience..

.

Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy.

.

Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case.

.

Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any version(s) to include an obligation to recover and preserve such version(s) which are now in the possession of a third party.

.

In accordance with CPR 31.15© I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.

.

If you are unable to comply with this request within 14 days and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request please confirm in your response.

.

You are reminded that as this case is yet to be allocated to a track, CPR31:14 does apply, a refusal to comply because you 'think' at this stage you dont have too will be used against you in any filed defence.

.

 

Yours faithfully

.

TYPE YOUR NAME DO NOT SIGN IT

 

 

dx

[ericsbrother]

in answer to your question about the 2 event, no they dont have to separate them, they can bundle together thousands of claims if they wish,

if they lose 999 out of 1000 then they still get their costs so it is worth their while to do this as it is like buy one get one free

[sicktodeathofthem]

Hi

thanks for your help.

 

I've registered my case online to MCOL and asked for the extra time.

 

I've written a letter to the solicitors requesting further info under CPR 31.14.

 

If I get the time extension what is my cut-off date? The date on the Court Claim form is 12/03/2018.

 

I could go back onto the MCOL and put my Defence - which isn't complicated, simply saying that I wasn't there. True, I can't prove I wasn't but how can they prove I was? PCMs photos aren't much use: just shows my car parked - alongside others - er.....somewhere

 

Should I give the solicitors time to respond to the CPR 13.14 request before sending off my Defence/ If so how long should I give them?

 

Would appreciate your comments

Sandra

[dx100uk]

why have you asked for extra time?

[ericsbrother]

stop flapping, all you need to say at this moment is there was no breach of contract by the defendant because neither he nor the vehicle has ever been to the place that is the cause of this action so no contract was ever offered or accepted.

 

Yoou then have an age to then get all of the detail together and that will include their response to the CPR 31.14 or lack of it and put it to STRICT PROOF that you were there and enterered into a contract that was subsequently breached. Doesnt matter they have bundles the 2 events together, they still have to show somehting or they dont getover the first hurdle.

[sicktodeathofthem]

why have you asked for extra time?

Just assumed I'd have to wait for the solicitor to get back; never done this before; not sure of correct procedure

[dx100uk]

no

you don't want them to get back to you...think about it....

[sicktodeathofthem]

I've just sent my Defence off to them online. Kept it short merely telling them I wasn't there etc. so now just waiting to see what comes back from them

 

Sandra

 

Sandra

[dx100uk]

why you didn't need to do that yet

 

you had 33 days from the date on the claimform........

 

post up what you sent here please

minus pers info

[sicktodeathofthem]

I got the impression from what you said previously that I had no need to ask for extra time (???)

 

Will try and upload here what I have sent to the Court

 

Sandra

[dx100uk]

the 33 days is not extra time

 

the claimform is deemed received 5 days from its date [service]

you then have 14 days to ack the claim [acknowledgement]

you then have a further 14 days to file your defence [defence]

 

go back and read the link in post 2 properly

 

just copy and paste your defence TEXT to a msg box here

no need to upload it.

[sicktodeathofthem]

..

Scan Battery and Shipw 120318 R.pdf

[dx100uk]

erm we can see straight through the crossing out

DONT USE A PEN

do it digitally!

 

read upload

[DragonFly1967]

I've done it.

 

Where you'd used a pen, you could still make out your details, case & reference numbers.

[Ethel Street]

When you say the photos on PCM website "throw no further light on it" what do you mean specifically? That they show a car that definitely isn't yours because it has a different number plate? Or does show a car but number plate is undecipherable? Or doesn't show any vehicle at all? Or what?

[ericsbrother]

to enable us to help you properly we will need to see what they have used as evidence and you need to take pictures yourself

 

get some images of where you live,

signsge, layout of parking area,

esp where you park

or where they have photographed anything and

 

also of the place you have never been to including signage,

layout

and anything that rubbishes their pictures

so clear images of the buildings to show they are nothing like your development.

 

As Ethel says have they got the wrong vehicle or are they using cropped images to try and make it impossible to tell what they have captured (either wrong car or wrong place)

 

Also note foliage on trees etc, shadows or rain so we can see if they have realised they have cocked up and just taken some more pictures to suit their arguments rather than relying on the originals.

 

Your pictures will hopefully show a disparity, whether that be tree leaves, grass growing or whatever.

 

Also check what the weather was that day, if it was raining then we expect their pictures to show water on the vehicle or road and if the piccies are bright winter sunshine they are pulling a fast one

 

another thing we havent mentioned is what does your tenancy say about parking.

Generally you have superiority of contract if you have allocated parking in your tenancy.

If no allocation what dioes it say?

You might need to get a copy from the HA so dont delay

Edited March 24, 2018 by dx100uk
spacing

[sicktodeathofthem]

sorry not been back for a while, I've been unwell and listless ;

having to deal with the sort of crap these parking shysters come up with doesn't help those of us already prone to depression

- but thanks for those who've taken an interest so far.

 

what I've done so far: completed the MCOL online; I've not heard anything from the court or solicitors or the parking gang.

 

someone suggested I complete a : 31:14 so I had a look at one but I can't think what information to ask for in this case.

 

as I wrote before, the photos PCM provided "shed no light on the matter"; unfortunately I can't scan over because

- after giving a patchy service for a while has now packed up altogether; not sure when Ill be able to get another one.

 

they have supplied about 6 similar photos

- in them the car dominates about 80% of the photo and in the background are what appears to be some window, some railing, some wall and so on

- all bland and non-descript - could have been taken anywhere .

 

is the burden of proof on them to prove I'm parked at the Battle and Shipwright Court, or is it me who has to prove otherwise?

- and how do you prove a negative?

 

would appreciate any suggestions

[dx100uk]

have you had an N180 from the court and done mediation yet?