INDIGO windscreen Penalty Notice - ramsgate kent railway station

[dx100uk]

you cant send atts by PM.

 

if you are really stuck

send me a PM and i'll send our secure email address to use

[ericsbrother]

they still have a couple of weeks to issue a NTK so dont be in a hurry to do anything.

 

They quote bylaw 14 but then they demand a fixed sum

where bylaw 14 allows the railway co to prosecute you

they wont do that because indigo wont get any money then, it goes to the treasury.

 

Now I know of other places where the railway co's pet parking cowboy issue tickets on land that is the public highway or land that is private but not railway land

 

you will need to identify exactly what land it is and then check with the Valuations Agency/Land registry who owns it.

 

try the VA first as they deal with commercial land and property and will tell you for free

[dx100uk]

ticket is here

[DragonFly1967]

Indigo Park SOLUTIONS Ltd.

 

Oh dear. That's not a very good start for them. Poor loves

 

 

"If the penalty notice is not paid within 28 days of issue of the notice, Indigo Park Solutions UK Limited may request the registered keeper details from the DVLA for the purpose of the recovery of this notice."

 

LOL. Well, good luck with that one!

[DragonFly1967]

247orbital.

 

I take it that you're up for the fight and having some fun at Indigo's expense?

 

As long as you're up for it, it's going to be a simple matter to waste enough of their time to take this past the 6 months they may (or may not) have to actually enforce anything against the driver.

[brassnecked]

Oops a PO Box address......

[DragonFly1967]

Oops a PO Box address......

 

In fairness, they do also give the registered office address, so they're not falling down on that one.

[247orbital]

yep always up for the fight!

[DragonFly1967]

yep always up for the fight!

 

This is going to be an easy victory for you then. The first step of which is to do absolutely nothing until you get a Notice to Keeper. This is going to be all about wasting their time and money

[247orbital]

ok I'll sit tight, also still have the plastic sticky packet it came in!

[DragonFly1967]

Just to put your own mind at rest, and some background for anyone else.

 

The Railway by-laws state that any action (as in taking someone to court) must be started within 6 months from the date that the original penalty charge was issued.

 

The only party that can take action against someone that is in breach of the Railway by-laws is the Train Operating Company (TOC), or I presume, Network Rail. So a PPC, while they might be authorised to operate on the site, cannot initiate any legal action (in a Magistrates court).

 

This action can only be in a Magistrates court as it is a penalty charge and not a parking charge.

 

Because it is a) Railway property and b) by-laws are in place then it is not relevant land for the purposes of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. Schedule 4. Paragraph 3. The land is subject to statutory control (it has by-laws). Most ports and airports are also not 'relevant land', but this, of course, doesn't stop the PPC's from chancing their arm.

 

So, because it falls outside of the remit imposed by POFA 2012, it is impossible for keeper liability to be created (unless the actual by-law states others (it doesn't in this case)) and therefore any action can only be taken against the driver at the time that the penalty charge was issued.

 

There is no obligation, unless ordered (not asked) to do so by a court to name the person that was driving.

 

Council & police tickets are different and we're not talking about those here.

 

-

 

As this unfolds, it is very important to take certain steps at certain times. This kills as much time as possible and means that any window to actually do anything to the driver in a Magistrates court is rapidly closing. By not taking any action at all when the driver got the ticket on the windscreen, as much as 3 months of the 6 can be wasted on this part alone.

 

The PPC will want to try to get the keeper to pay up because that way they get some money. They won't want the TOC to take action because if the TOC take you to Magistrates court, neither the PPC or the TOC will see a single penny of the fine imposed by the Magistrates, so it's really not worth their effort.

 

Private parking charges, or penalty charges issued by a PPC on land that is not relevant is a giant red herring. Unfortunately a large number of people fall for it and pay up, hence why they keep trying. Even more unfortunate is the PPC's have, in the past, been able to convince a Judge in County Court that they have a valid claim, although this has usually been where the 'defendant' hasn't done their homework or hasn't turned up and the PPC has managed to wangle a default judgement.

[ericsbrother]

the signage must have proper address as well

Oops a PO Box address......

[silverfox1961]

Hang on a minute! I thought that POPLA was for appeals on private land and for Parking Charges. Penalty charges don't crop up that often with POPLA

[silverfox1961]

Just found this on the POPLA website

https://popla.co.uk/byelaws

[247orbital]

Very interesting read, hopefully mine will time out before such a decision is made. However I think the parking companies are in for a very difficult time if the think that this will be easy for them.

 

I'm going to go to the area my ticket was enforced in and photograph the signage and I'll also put a pic up of the packet the ticket came in a-fixed to the wind screen.

 

Great source of help and guidance so far, thank you all who have helped.

[DragonFly1967]

Hang on a minute! I thought that POPLA was for appeals on private land and for Parking Charges. Penalty charges don't crop up that often with POPLA

 

You're right, as you said in your next post. But...

 

Because it is listed on the back of the OPs' ticket, there's an argument to be had with Indigo. They're offering it in writing so technically they can't get out of their own offer to use ADR. So that's another 3 or 4 weeks wasted while it gets argued about

[247orbital]

Pictures I took today.

pix.pdf

[dx100uk]

pictures above

[DragonFly1967]

I'm assuming (from your earlier description) that you were parked in one of these bays to the left of this image? https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.3408849,1.4066567,3a,41.5y,81.42h,91.11t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sfTlaNaKiDAHotpVdjg7okQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

[247orbital]

further along towards the junction on the right, almost under the camera.

[DragonFly1967]

No problem. Still definitely railway land then. By-laws apply. No POFA. No keeper liability.

[ericsbrother]

are you absolutely sure that these are all the signs there?

None of them offer a contract,

none of them mention a sum for breaching that contract etc

so they cnat suddenly decide to demand monies for some random reason.

 

This also gives you a green light for suing them for a breach of the DPA in obtaining your keeper details as they have no lawful reason or reasonable cause to do so.

 

Something to consider if you are minded to later but lets get this sorted first

[247orbital]

Yes I had a very good look around yesterday in that area and around the station. There were no signs at the entrance or exit to the area, regarding parking.

 

The only other sign was on the opposite side and this was for railway employees only and had one small sign.

 

There are two entrance to this area as its also the only exit from the station for buses which enter through a different entrance, again at this entrance there is no signs regarding parking, only that its for buses only.

[ericsbrother]

then indigo have nowehere to go with this.

Even byelaw 14 needs signs to be enforceable.

What a bunch of numbnuts they are.

 

When they send you a NTK

you have plenty of ammunition of fire at them copy of your letter to MP as well if you will.

[silverfox1961]

When I looked on streetview yesterday, I could see no signs on entry stating that the land is covered by bylaws. It would have been nice to see the sign next to the pay and display machine. One of the images from streetview was from 2012 and that showed the P&D machine so charges have been in place for quite some time.

 

As said, it is down to the landowner to take action, not Indigo. The ticket states that they use POPLA. POPLA state that they don't do appeals for bylaw breaches so even if Indigo reject your appeal, they will be on a sticky wicket as you were denied the chance to use ADR.

 

I would love to see Indigo use a debt collector as they won't be able to do anything and if Indigo tried court action through either BW Legal or better still Gladdy's, it would be rather embarrassing for all.