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INDIGO windscreen Penalty Notice - ramsgate kent railway station


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On Dec 21st at a Kent railway station

I parked in an area that has always to my knowledge been free to park (I have lived in the area all my life)

 

Its residential and has diagonal bays.

 

Upon my return I have a Penalty Notice stuck to the wind screen of my car.

 

I have checked and signage is at best very difficult to see.

 

I did some reading and am awaiting a letter from Indigo,

 

to date 07/02/18 I have received nothing and am wondering what happens next.

 

The vehicle ticketed is a company lease and is through my personal business.

 

Any help would be appreciated.

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Hi

Indigo is quite a small business and take very few to court.

 

whilst waiting for the Notice to Keeper, nip back and get some pretty pictures of all the signage on site.

 

It's likely that Indigo contacted the lease company and they may have passed your details on to them. As they are BPA members, a simple appeal to Indigo is in order but not until you get that NtK

If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

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it doesnt say penalty notice does it?

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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This is going to take some digging & homework by the OP. Though quite how (or why) a PPC is allowed to issue a "Penalty" charge is a mystery.

 

On railway property, what they're saying is that you have breached by-law 14 of the railway by-laws...

 

14. Traffic signs, causing obstructions and parking

 

(1) No person in charge of any motor vehicle, bicycle or other conveyance shall use it on any part of the railway in contravention of any traffic sign.

 

(2) No person in charge of any motor vehicle, bicycle or other conveyance shall leave or place it on any part of the railway:

-- (i) in any manner or place where it may cause an obstruction or hindrance to an Operator or any person using the railway; or

-- (ii) otherwise than in accordance with any instructions issued by or on behalf of an Operator or an authorised person.

 

(3) No person in charge of any motor vehicle, bicycle or other conveyance shall park it on any part of the railway where charges are made for parking by an Operator or an authorised person without paying the appropriate charge at the appropriate time in accordance with instructions given by an Operator or an authorised person at that place.

 

(4) In England and Wales

-- (i) The owner of any motor vehicle, bicycle or other conveyance used, left or placed in breach of Byelaw 14(1) to 14(3) may be liable to pay a penalty as displayed in that area.

-- (ii) Without prejudice to Byelaw 14(4)(i), any motor vehicle, bicycle or other conveyance used, left or placed in breach of Byelaw 14(1) to 14(3) may be clamped, removed, and stored, by or under the direction of an Operator or authorised person.

-- (iii) The owner of the motor vehicle, bicycle or other conveyance shall be liable to an Operator or an authorised person for the costs incurred in clamping, removing and storing it provided that there is in that area a notice advising that any vehicle parked contrary to these Byelaws may be clamped, removed and stored by an Operator or an authorised person and that the costs incurred by an Operator or an authorised person for this may be recovered from the vehicle’s owner.

-- (iv) The power of clamping and removal provided in Byelaw

 

14(4)(ii) above shall not be exercisable in any area where passenger parking is permitted unless there is on display in that area a notice advising that any vehicle parked contrary to these Byelaws may be clamped and/or removed by an Operator or an authorised person.

 

Are you able to go back to this station and get pictures of any and all signs in the car park whether or not they seem to be related to parking.

 

This is an important first step and may help.

 

If the signs contradict themselves or the by-laws or don't set out the terms properly you'll have a good case to get this penalty cancelled.

Please note that my posts are my opinion only and should not be taken as any kind of legal advice.
In fact, they're probably just waffling and can be quite safely and completely ignored as you wish.

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You must make sure it definitely says Penalty & not Parking. If so then it is a Council issued ticket that must be paid.

 

It's not council. And whether or not the OP has to pay it, at the moment depends on a lot of factors.

Please note that my posts are my opinion only and should not be taken as any kind of legal advice.
In fact, they're probably just waffling and can be quite safely and completely ignored as you wish.

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Also, re-reading the first post, you need to be careful that your leasing company don't just pay up and then try to charge you not only for the ticket but a nice hefty "admin fee" for the privilege!

 

It might be worth giving them a ring (with a follow up letter) saying that you do not authorise them to make any payments regarding parking tickets on your behalf.

 

 

Can you scan in the ticket and upload it as a PDF please (after removing things like registration, ticket numbers, bar and/or QR codes). But in the mean time, what are the full name and registration details of the company that has issued the ticket.

 

We know it's Indigo, but Indigo what?

Please note that my posts are my opinion only and should not be taken as any kind of legal advice.
In fact, they're probably just waffling and can be quite safely and completely ignored as you wish.

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well if anything is owed

its owed to the railway company NOT indigo

and they can be totally ignored even if it ID a penalty charge notice

they cant issue Penalty charge notices on behalf of a railway company.

 

I very much suspect the OP has simply used the wrong word

and its a PARKING charge notice.

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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ticket states as follows

 

Penalty Notice

 

This car park is regulated by the terms and conditions of parking displayed at the car park in accordance with Rail Bye law 14, by entering the car park you have agreed and are contacted to be legally bound by the terms and conditions.

 

can you scan it up please to ONE multipage PDF both sides please

read UPLOAD.

 

indigo cant issue penalty charge notices on behalf of a rail company.

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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commonly the train operators and their gophers like to pretend that they are using Byelaw14 when all they want is some money.

 

Fines dont go to the railway co. anyway!

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

I'm sure they would have to contact me before taking any extra payment. Or at least notify me of the charge.

not if they have you card number!!

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

I'm sure they would have to contact me before taking any extra payment. Or at least notify me of the charge.

 

They like to hide those sort of clauses in the very small print and dress them up in legalise. I would contact them just to be 100% sure.

 

Explain you got a ticket but are appealing it, ask them not to pay if / when Indigo contact them as keeper demanding £X in return for not prosecuting. Point out to your lease company that this is not relevant land for the purposes of the POFA 2012 so there is no keeper liability. Indigo will probably try getting money this way even though they know there is no keeper liability at station car parks where By-laws apply.

 

Who is named on the V5 as keeper? You or the leasing company? If you have the V5 for the vehicle it's probably you (and you can ignore the above), but if you don't then it'll be the leasing company (and you need to contact them pronto).

 

Ultimately, only the driver can possibly be liable for a By-law breach, and you have absolutely no obligation (legal or otherwise) to name the driver, which is why you should never name the driver or say anything to infer who the driver was.

Please note that my posts are my opinion only and should not be taken as any kind of legal advice.
In fact, they're probably just waffling and can be quite safely and completely ignored as you wish.

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Indigo used to be meteor Parking. There are Indigo Park services and Indigo Park solutions, both the same company and members of the BPA.

 

As I understand the first post, the OP parked in a residential area near the station. Is this area part of the car park?

 

More investigation is need hence the requirement to see the ticket. Make sure that your car reg and any reference numbers are obscured though

 

EDIT. Also which particular station was it as there are quite a few in Kent

If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

Please help CAG. Order this ebook. Now available on Amazon. Please click HERE

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It's not council. And whether or not the OP has to pay it, at the moment depends on a lot of factors.

 

Thanks for that as found out by doing a bit of Googling and realise it may not be straightforward.

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Indigo used to be meteor Parking. There are Indigo Park services and Indigo Park solutions, both the same company and members of the BPA.

 

As I understand the first post, the OP parked in a residential area near the station. Is this area part of the car park?

 

More investigation is need hence the requirement to see the ticket. Make sure that your car reg and any reference numbers are obscured though

 

EDIT. Also which particular station was it as there are quite a few in Kent

 

SF, they're owned/run by the same controlling minds but they are not the same company. It's a very important distinction in this case. Only one of the companies has a written contract with the TOC's to issue tickets. If they're issued by the other company then there is no permission to issue a ticket/charge and their claim is doomed to fail from the beginning irrespective of anything else.

 

INDIGO PARK SERVICES UK LIMITED. Company number 02362957 may well have written authority to operate on railway property. But the tickets tend to come from...

INDIGO PARK SOLUTIONS UK LIMITED. Company number 02518720 which do not.

 

It is a small but very important difference.

Please note that my posts are my opinion only and should not be taken as any kind of legal advice.
In fact, they're probably just waffling and can be quite safely and completely ignored as you wish.

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You raise a significant point. 'Solutions' don't do court but the BMPA states they have issued nearly 18,000 tickets. 'Services' show that they have issued nearly 25,000 tickets and took court action 20 times last year

If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

Please help CAG. Order this ebook. Now available on Amazon. Please click HERE

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Spoke to the lease company, they have not been contacted by Indigo and as the ticket was fixed to windscreen it is my responsibility to engage with the company. They would not receive the parking ticket themselves directly.

They have also placed a note on my account that they are not to make any payment on my behalf.

 

I also have a copy of the transcript with my lease company emailed to me.

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so post 11 please

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

yes it does read upload use an aPP

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

Spoke to the lease company, they have not been contacted by Indigo and as the ticket was fixed to windscreen it is my responsibility to engage with the company. They would not receive the parking ticket themselves directly.

They have also placed a note on my account that they are not to make any payment on my behalf.

 

I also have a copy of the transcript with my lease company emailed to me.

 

That's good news. It means that you'll be able to deal with these clowns directly without having to worry that the lease company are going to stick their oar in.

 

It's been touched on before, but it's important to remember that Indigo can only enforce against the driver of the vehicle at the time of the parking event. There is no keeper liability because it is not relevant land and has it's own by-laws. They are, as far as I know, entitled to write to the keeper (once) to ask them who was driving, but the keeper has no obligation to reply.

 

The keeper will probably get all the usual pleading, begging and then threatening letters from Indigo, then ZZPS and ultimately Wright Hassle (yes, honestly, that's what they're called) but you're safe in the knowledge that as keeper, they cannot do a damn thing to you.

 

They'll threaten to take the driver to court (Magistrates, not County (although they'll threaten both)) but before they can do that, they'd have to be sure of who the driver was (see above).

 

After 6 months, they lose the ability to prosecute and/or enforce the penalty charge against the driver and it simply goes away (unlike council/police penalty charges) although that might not stop their silly threatening letters. But it's their money and they can waste it if they want to.

Please note that my posts are my opinion only and should not be taken as any kind of legal advice.
In fact, they're probably just waffling and can be quite safely and completely ignored as you wish.

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I have it scanned but only on my mobile and it doesn't give me the option to blank out the personal information.

 

If it helps at all, I'm happy to do it for you if you send me the ticket by PM. Once edited, the original will be deleted.

 

I can assure you that I don't work for Indigo :lol: I'd rather gouge my own eyes out with a rusty spoon than work in the PPC industry.

Please note that my posts are my opinion only and should not be taken as any kind of legal advice.
In fact, they're probably just waffling and can be quite safely and completely ignored as you wish.

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