park watch windsreen PCN - Broughton Park North wales

[renegadeimp]

Hi all. Just after some advice on this one for my brother as he's now in disneyland in florida for 3 weeks with his family.

 

He parked at broughton park in north east wales while he went for a meal with his partner and child at frankie and bennys.

 

The only bays available that were anywhere close to the restaurant were either disabled bays or bays right across the other side of the park near macdonalds or near specsavers. Not really the kind of walk you want to do when its raining hard and you have a 7 year old tired kid in tow.

 

he chose to park in a disabled bay as it was the most logical place.

Bear in mind, he parked there at 7pm and every single one of the 2 rows of disabled bays were empty . The rest of the park was full.

 

He left the restaurant at around 9pm to find out he had a PCN issued at 8.33.

By this time, the park would have been pretty empty as people would have left the restuarants and shops there.

The only people around would be late night eaters and cinema goers.

 

Google maps shows the park at 53.167590, -2.975015 He parked in the bays to the right side of prezzo.

 

He wants to know how he can get rid of this PCN i thought i'd ask you guys for him.

I know a fair bit about PCN's, but i don't want to make a mistake for him.

 

Also,

regarding signage,

if you look where the red barriers are on the empty car park by prezzo,

thats the signage thats there now.

 

Theyre sporadic around the park, but thats the only signage around.

 

I can get signage if needed.

 

PCN and NTK are below:

 

And:

 

1 Date of the infringement - 25 Aug 17

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] 25th Sept 17

3 Date received 27th Sept 17

 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [y/n?] Yes

 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? No

 

6 Have you appealed? {y/n?] post up you appeal] No

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up N/A

 

7 Who is the parking company? Park Watch

 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] Broughton Retail park

1.pdf

2.pdf

3.pdf

4.pdf

[ericsbrother]

now,

as there is no such thing as a disabled bay nor a disabled badge it makes this difficult to claim a breach of conditions unless those conditions expressed are very clear in their nature on the signs on the bays.

 

a sign in the car park saying disabled parking only in designated bays is just too vague.

So is a sign on the bay saying disabled oparking only as the definition of disabled under the Equalities Act is vastly different to the criteria of the Blue Badge scheme, which is for on street parking.

 

The difference in council car parks is the correct use of the proper signage and that has been commented on elsewhere and been the subject of decisions in traffic tribunals so the private parking co's are on very unstable ground when issuing a claim using this wording as there is no such thing as a disabled space or disabled badge.

 

However,

to kick this into the long grass we will need to see the signage at the car park and specifically at the space where he was parked as it is possible to offer a contract this limits who can be there if the wording is correct.

 

the signage really should say "free parking in this space for BB holders, everyone else £100" or the charge becomes an unlawful penalty rather than a genuine offer of a contract.

 

I think I know the answer to this already but that wont stop them trying their best.

Edited September 29, 2017 by honeybee13
Paras

[renegadeimp]

Thank you. I'll get the pics when I'm next in that area.

[renegadeimp]

Little update.

He got a letter from a dca .

The usual rubbish.

Slight increase in amount allegedly owed.

 

Also here are pics as requested.

 

yes the sign really is around 7 ft up,

that small and has tiny writing.

 

There also are no signs on entrance or exit to the car park detailing rules etc.

imagetopdf.pdf

[ericsbrother]

a better picture of the sign would have been helful, it is almost impossible to read the small print

 

However your description of a lack of sigange at the entrance is more helpful in determining what is what,

particularly as the pictures of the disabled bays DONT have their own signs saying Blue Badge only

 

they mean absolutely nothing The best description they can give is disabled bay and they have absolutely nothing to do with the blue badge scheme and not mentioned .

 

The main sign says £100 parking charge- doesnt actually say it is £100 for breaching the conditions hinted at by the childish drawings

so one presumes that there is a machine that you put your credit card in to pay their agreed £100 sum everey time you visit the place.

If there isnt then the contract becomes void by dereliction- ie they dont enforce it so it withers and dies.

 

All together, usual parking co omnishambles.

The added fees from dca is just money for the unicorn food- imaginary as you wel know.

 

Ignore for the moment and when a serious letter such as a lba arrives then we will help with a more detailed response

 

but no breach of contract as one wasnt offered and if the sig was a contract there was no condition regarding the use of those spaces that was breached so still no money due

[renegadeimp]

Ill grab one when im in that area next. Those are the ones he sent me. I'll try and get him to make an account here too so you dont have to go through third parties. But he doesnt really like forums.

[dx100uk]

tough if he wants help come here...

[renegadeimp]

No need to be harsh Dx. i know how it works

[dx100uk]

that was to him..

[renegadeimp]

[renegadeimp]

Quick update. He's received a letter from a dca. Advised him to ignore it for now.

 

He's working away right now so hard to get all info until he's back on the weekend

[ericsbrother]

that is all that is needed.

[renegadeimp]

His partner has given me the dca latter

. I'll.scan it up as soon as I'm.able

[renegadeimp]

Well, he's got another letter.

he's away in europe atm for work, and his partner called me this morning in a bit of a panic.

 

She's worried that potential CCJ will cause an issue,

as they plan to move to europe in the summer,

but a CCJ on my brothers credit record will stop that in its tracks,

as my brother needs a clean file to continue his job.

 

Any advice so i can allieve her concerns,

or that she can sent to gladstones to put this to bed once and for all?

 

I should add my brother is adamant he will not pay, but she is extremely concerned, as they spent the past year preparing for this move.

123.pdf

[dx100uk]

std letter doesnt say will anything.

 

await the letter of claim IF one ever comes

[renegadeimp]

I think she wants to know what their defence would be rather than waiting till the last moment, as we know Gladstones can be very litigious.

[dx100uk]

EB has already explain things in his posts.

 

would be the std reply to the LBA

and the std defence too if a claim were issued.

[DragonFly1967]

This is pretty much the timeline of what happens...

 

Sloppy pretend parking ticket slapped on car (or received through the post). Ignored.

Reminder through the post. Ignored.

DCA Letter 1. Ignored.

DCA Letter 2. Ignored.

DCA Letter 3. Ignored.

Maybe. DCA Letter 4. Reduced payment offer, please give us some money. Ignored.

 

If they don't give up at that point...

 

Letter from same DCA on some different headed paper, threatening to sell the family in to slavery if they don't pay them. Back up to £160 or so. Ignored.

 

(possibly pretend) Solicitors letter. Full of "If's", "May's" & "Mights". Ignored.

 

If they still haven't given up...

 

A letter before action. At which point you fire back a strongly worded F-OFF response. We'll help with that if it gets to that stage.

 

If they're still up for a fight...

 

A Court claim arrives.

 

Then, eventually, they go to court.

 

Then, in the unlikely event that you lose,

you have to pay them or then,

and only then,

you'll get a CCJ.

 

Even if you lost at court,

as long as you pay up within (I think it's about 28 days) you won't get a CCJ entered on to your file.

 

And there's a long time to go between now and that final stage.

[DragonFly1967]

That letter is probably NOT from Gladrags. It's far more likely to be from DR+ on Gladrags headed paper.

 

If it was from Gladrags, they'd want you to pay them. As it stands, it says to pay DR+

 

Naughty, but the SRA won't do a damn thing about it.

[ericsbrother]

you should know well that even losing a claim doesnt create a CCJ,

not paying up in the time ordered by the court does that.

 

If they move to an EU country then forward that address to the parking bandits as that is a serviceable address.

Any court case will take place in the UK but a massive travel bill may well put the bugger off anyway.

 

I remember a case where one of these bandits sued someone who had moved to South America

the defendant returned for the hearing and got £4k travel costs because the only reason for returning to the UK was their soppy claim.

 

They tried to argue he could visit relatives or go shopping as well

but the judge said that all that was by the by,

he wouldnt have come back if they hadnt made him.

Next case please...

 

Also note that gladdys are saying you should pay DR+. Why?

just because they added unicorn food tax to the original bill doesnt give them any rights.

It is all just a 3 ring circus

[renegadeimp]

Oh i hear ya.

 

I think shes worried because they're planning on moving just after christmas this year,

and if theres a CCJ on file then the move is off.

And i know my brother, and he is extremely stubborn on things like this.

 

he's not too concerned about a DCA chasing or if there was a ccj, people come chasing.

Its the fact that hes worked for this move for 3 years,

and a simple CCJ or mark will stop it in its tracks.

No idea why his employer would put a clause liek that, but thats how it is.

 

Thanks for advice guys, i'll pass it along, and when my brother is back in the UK,

i'll kick his arse to get him on here.

[ericsbrother]

will you stop wittering on about a ccj when you of all people should know better.

 

If the worse comes to the worst they pay the amount ordered by the court.

I assume they they are not stupid enough to just bin all the letters they receive

so will have plenty of notice that moves are afoot to take the matter to court.

 

The chances of Parkwatch winning a properly defended claim are very small and they know it.

All that is needed is to let them know at the appropriate time that they have been rumbled and they are in for a hard time if they continue with their stupidity.