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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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Withholding video evidence


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OP was going to refuse the FPN and go to court (in that thread about a different set of events).

OP, did you go to court? what was the outcome? (depending on the outcome it might be relevant to your current situation !)

Case dismissed witness was lying

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Tony, you have not actually said you did not do anything wrong.

 

Why are you being evasive?

 

An employer will certainly pick up on that. It will not help your case at all.

Never assume anyone on the internet is who they say they are. Only rely on advice from insured professionals you have paid for!

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Emzzi, Shush!.

(From my experience of disciplinaries, I think you are accurate and it is worth raising......)

 

Yet, it risks you being called "judgmental" and accused of subjecting the OP to "ridicule". Different viewpoints, see.

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Well, this isnt the first time youve been caught out for something like this.

 

As already sated, your best bet is to go in, be truthful, make no comment until you have asked and seen video evidence and got 15 mins to look it over and discuss it with your rep. If the video clearly shows you being abusive, then all you can do is be VERY apologetic and hope your employers side with you.

 

Im going to keep my personal viewpoint out of it, but you NEED to tell the truth. If it doesnt match with the video evidence, youll be out of a job as your employer will see you are lying to them. Un;ess of course you have an extremely leniant employer and the abuse/swearing wasnt as bad as we think.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

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Wow you lot are really bang on it I suppose you all live in your perfect bubble worlds where no one causes you any probs and the whole kaleidoscope is so pretty.

Why dont you get your heads out of your judgemental backsides

 

 

I have asked a simple question relating to a query.

Then you drag up my past on a website.

 

 

I recieved very good advice from CAG a good few yrs ago.

I guess those nice people are not here no more.

If you can delete the thread as I really wouldn't want to intrude in your oh so perfect world.

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Well, this isnt the first time youve been caught out for something like this.

 

OP's previous court appearance is irrelevant to current disciplinary, as the case was dismissed.

What they have told us did occurr might speak to a trend / pattern of behaviour : hence me asking if OP is currently subject to any disciplinary warning (a not unreasonable and relevant question!)

 

 

Im going to keep my personal viewpoint out of it, but you NEED to tell the truth. If it doesnt match with the video evidence, youll be out of a job as your employer will see you are lying to them. Un;ess of course you have an extremely leniant employer and the abuse/swearing wasnt as bad as we think.

 

I don't know how bad to think what was said was : OP needs to be clear on what did happen.

 

Wow you lot are really bang on it I suppose you all live in your perfect bubble worlds where no one causes you any probs and the whole kaleidoscope is so pretty. Why dont you get your heads out of your judgemental backsides I have askwd a simple question relating to a query. Then you drag up my past on a website. I recieved very good advice from CAG a good few yrs ago. I guess those nice people are not here no more. If you can delete the thread as I really wouldn't want to intrude in your oh so perfect world.

 

Both RI and myself posted to that thread, when it was current.

 

There is a difference between expecting you to be perfect and you "having a short fuse" (which you are giving the appearance is the case!) which would be relevant to any disciplinary.

 

Giving you advice based on you being perfect won't help you if you "haven't been an angel" - that isn't being judgmental, but is wanting to give you realistic advice (be that for defence OR mitigation).

 

Responding aggressively to posters here leads to questions of how you'll be likely to respond in a disciplinary: the process has to be fair but that doesn't exclude them seeing if you "rise to the bait"!

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I've defended union members for many years and at one point bus drivers as well.

 

I can tell you one thing:

CCTV always show something different from what the driver remembers because of how quickly things happen whilst driving.

 

Example: A bus driver was called in on allegations that he had passed a red light and almost hit a car at the junction,

had to brake hard making his passengers go forth.

 

When I first spoke to the driver he said that maybe he had passed a red light because he was on an A road at 40mph and it went from amber to red very quickly.

 

He didn't remember having to slam on the brakes.

we made a statement saying that he didn't recollect the event, rather than committing to an admission.

 

When we saw the CCTV , the driver had passed on amber, not on red, and 200 yards after the junction, on a clear stretch of road he had to brake and change lane to let an ambulance pass.

 

Even if they tried getting him on the amber light, eventually the case was dismissed because the person making the complaint just did so to make a personal injury claim.

 

Moral of the story is that until clear footage is seen,

not even the people involved can surely say what happened and said without fail.

 

That's why police take statements from everyone who witness an incident so the can "reconstruct" the likely truth.

 

You should see statements from different people who witness the same incident;

completely different stories sometimes with characters that were not even there!

 

One other thing is that 99% of the times, a complainant will exaggerate their story by adding words never said, actions never done and a lot of other lies to "garnish" the complaint.

 

Experienced managers will read through the complaint and immediately find inconsistences,

however nowadays I see many complaints being taken seriously which are clearly a pack of lies.

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Lets keep this civil please

 

Andy

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Hi tony.

Can i ask a few questions?

That way we can clear some things up and we can stop the back and forward arguments which arent constructive at all to your issue.

 

 

  • What is it you are accused of saying.
  • What did you actually say.
  • Will the video back up what you said at the time?

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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Mr RI

I have been accused of displaying threatening abusive and bullying behaviour towards a member of the public .

 

I am accused of calling him and I quote the bikers statement.

Are you a fuc*ing retard.

Your a wan*er

your a cu*t and a Bastard.

He then goes onto state I tried to run him over with my van.

 

The video will NOT back up his evidence because those swear words I do not use,

I have a penchant for dick head and Piers Morgan.

they seem suffice for today's world.

 

he has accused me of flying into a rage.

This I didn't do cos believe me a rage he would not want to see but that is neither here nor there.

 

I only want to see the video because I can honestly say hand on heart I told him to **** off once.

And that was in such a non significant way I hardly remembered it.

 

now I realise things have got stupid in here and for that I am sorry

but I really don't see the point of bringing up past queries.

 

However what has happened has happened.

 

i may sound like a typical thug but I am not I am just man who rightly or wrongly will not have the **** taking out of him.

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Ok. Thankyou. Then the best thing for you to do is to go into the meeting with your representative. Tell them exactly what happened from your recollection. Ask to see the video evidence then have a short recess to discuss it with your representative ( you are allowed to do this, so dont let the person doing the disciplinary say otherwise). If the video evidence matches what you say, then nothing more will come of it.

 

Also remember that IF ( and none of us know what actually happened) the evidence shows you tried to drive towards the person in your van, then it could be taken further including legal action. But if that happened, chances are the person would have gone to the police. Not called your employer instead.

 

As you say, it all hinges on that video evidence now. Until you get into that meeting and request to see it and ask for a recess to discuss it, they are under no obligation to provide it. This is so an accused party cannot view it first then invent a story to fit the scene. They will likely ask for your side first before you are allowed to view the video.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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Mr RI

I have been accused of displaying threatening abusive and bullying behaviour towards a member of the public .

 

I am accused of calling him and I quote the bikers statement.

Are you a fuc*ing retard.

Your a wan*er

your a cu*t and a Bastard.

He then goes onto state I tried to run him over with my van.

 

The video will NOT back up his evidence because those swear words I do not use,

I have a penchant for dick head and Piers Morgan.

they seem suffice for today's world.

 

he has accused me of flying into a rage.

This I didn't do cos believe me a rage he would not want to see but that is neither here nor there.

 

I only want to see the video because I can honestly say hand on heart I told him to **** off once.

And that was in such a non significant way I hardly remembered it.

 

now I realise things have got stupid in here and for that I am sorry

but I really don't see the point of bringing up past queries.

 

However what has happened has happened.

 

i may sound like a typical thug but I am not I am just man who rightly or wrongly will not have the **** taking out of him.

 

Don't be sorry mate, I can really see where you are coming from, others giving advice and that is all it counts for on here it just that, advice, that said you would have thought a few of the more senior members with my green dots than the likes of me and you seem to be convinced that their status on a public forum allows them to be judgemental and what they say goes, take no notice mate and don't waste your energy, bigger fish to fry, so to speak.

 

Take a step back mate, you are wound up and rightly so, if the evidence or the div rider was remotely telling the truth he would be handing the video evidence and reporting you to the proper autrhorities in such event, the fact that he has not done this and gone whimpering to your employees and in the hope of getting you the sack, says a lot for me.

 

Only you know the truth, I am with you on this, I know how some people work in life.

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Don't be sorry mate, I can really see where you are coming from, others giving advice and that is all it counts for on here it just that, advice, that said you would have thought a few of the more senior members with my green dots than the likes of me and you seem to be convinced that their status on a public forum allows them to be judgemental and what they say goes, take no notice mate and don't waste your energy, bigger fish to fry, so to speak.

 

Take a step back mate, you are wound up and rightly so, if the evidence or the div rider was remotely telling the truth he would be handing the video evidence and reporting you to the proper autrhorities in such event, the fact that he has not done this and gone whimpering to your employees and in the hope of getting you the sack, says a lot for me.

 

Only you know the truth, I am with you on this, I know how some people work in life.

Thanks spitfire means a lot

 

I think after the video evidence is shown the OP should book a course on anger management.

The other post the OP posted is of a similar vein and that just shows form and history.

Sgtbush could it quite possibly be that my accuser is totally lying and nothing like his stream of events actually happened. I did tell him to eff off once. And for that I am regretful but I drive for 10 hrs a day and I pass thousands of motorists a day it is not my fault that people take exception to my driving.

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I only drive 20 miles a day and I see lots of bad driving and motorcyclists winding other drivers up, so I can understand how much more you see in 10 hours.

As I said, you can't change your statement now, so go in and don't give any more info different from your statement until you see the video footage.

By the way, where's this footage from?

Your on board camera or biker's camera.

If he filmed you on his mobile while driving, get the number plate and report him to the police.

Also, check if the biker has put the footage on YouTube, many do and that could give you an advantage in the DM.

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Sgtbush could it quite possibly be that my accuser is totally lying and nothing like his stream of events actually happened. I did tell him to eff off once. And for that I am regretful but I drive for 10 hrs a day and I pass thousands of motorists a day it is not my fault that people take exception to my driving.

 

 

Yes you are correct. I also pass thousands of motorists a day and I've never had a confrontation in the way you described.

Its your last bit of the quoted post that sends red flags up.

"its not my fault that people take exception to my driving"

 

That is a passive aggressive mentality.

 

You need anger management

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I think you need to mind your own business I can't understand how a person on a key board can ascertain someone's mental state without meeting them. I have driven for well over 30 yrs and had not 1 accident that was my fault. Yes there have been instances where people **** me off on the road. But driving is not hard it's idiots on the road that make it hard. So you have made an assumption regarding anger issues. Let me ask you do you sit in the middle lane of the motorway and refuse to move out of said lane.my guess is yes.

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Sgtbush could it quite possibly be that my accuser is totally lying and nothing like his stream of events actually happened. I did tell him to eff off once. And for that I am regretful but I drive for 10 hrs a day and I pass thousands of motorists a day it is not my fault that people take exception to my driving.

 

Yes you are correct. I also pass thousands of motorists a day and I've never had a confrontation in the way you described.

Its your last bit of the quoted post that sends red flags up.

"its not my fault that people take exception to my driving"

 

That is a passive aggressive mentality.

 

You need anger management

 

 

I think you need to mind your own business I can't understand how a person on a key board can ascertain someone's mental state without meeting them. I have driven for well over 30 yrs and had not 1 accident that was my fault. Yes there have been instances where people **** me off on the road. But driving is not hard it's idiots on the road that make it hard. So you have made an assumption regarding anger issues. Let me ask you do you sit in the middle lane of the motorway and refuse to move out of said lane.my guess is yes.

 

And the employer's likely viewpoint?.

 

"There are idiots on the road. Our drivers will encounter them.

We know our drivers will encounter idiots on the road, and we can't influence that.

So, what can we do to influence the situation / reduce our risk?."

 

Lets fit dashcams to our vehicles, so we have video evidence to protect ourselves.

Have a company driver behaviour policy.

 

Do we want drivers who will abreact, and start telling people to "F-off" (even if provoked)?.

If we have a driver (who does seem to react more than others who are more laid back), and they end up in a disciplinary, what might suggest they have insight into this, and want to take steps to reduce the corporate risk we see them pose.....

 

Perhaps a 2003 comedy film, referencing "abrasive negativists", starring Adam Sandler and Jack Nicholson, if your employer perceives you need to "unfluster".......

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I too have driven for over 30 years...

I've not had 1 accident, fault or non fault. Luckily.

I was done for speeding in 1989 for doing 37 in a 30 tho...

I have (but not currently) held an class1 HGV licence and a PSV licence.

People annoy meon the road too,pulling out in front, cutting up etc but my attitude is ok, carry on, at least your not an ass hat behind me.

Your use of English language in the written sense is your giveaway your being passive aggressive

So in answer to your last thrown slur, no I dont drive down lane2 and refuse to yield.

I suspect your the tailgater in lane 3 trying to do 80+ with no regard for other road users.

 

I hope the company vehicle you drive is not liveried up as to advertise what company you work for.

As I would question your employers integrity and rationale in employing a driver that tells other drivers to F off, what sort of message does that send out about the quality of the company.

Red flags

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You are boring with your assumptions. You put people's lives at risk doing 37 in a 30 perhaps it was me tailgating you that made you do it.🤣🤣

 

And the employer's likely viewpoint?.

 

"There are idiots on the road. Our drivers will encounter them.

We know our drivers will encounter idiots on the road, and we can't influence that.

So, what can we do to influence the situation / reduce our risk?."

 

Lets fit dashcams to our vehicles, so we have video evidence to protect ourselves.

Have a company driver behaviour policy.

 

Do we want drivers who will abreact, and start telling people to "F-off" (even if provoked)?.

If we have a driver (who does seem to react more than others who are more laid back), and they end up in a disciplinary, what might suggest they have insight into this, and want to take steps to reduce the corporate risk we see them pose.....

 

Perhaps a 2003 comedy film, referencing "abrasive negativists", starring Adam Sandler and Jack Nicholson, if your employer perceives you need to "unfluster".......

 

Perhaps you could get a supporting part playing a stooge

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Perhaps you could get a supporting part playing a stooge

 

Hello,

 

I am not sure this is going to help you with your employer. Working on calm responses might help more?

Never assume anyone on the internet is who they say they are. Only rely on advice from insured professionals you have paid for!

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Emmzzi I am calm and I will respond to any perceived digs. This hostility is coming from all sides. I only wanted an answer to a relatively simple question. And then YOU decide to act like a stalker and feel obliged to drag up my past. What ever you or your companions on here feel about how I answer your question or digs should not defer from the fact that I didn't warrant any such ridicule or bitterness.

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The OP's response to that post just highlights and confirms my response of anger management may be of use

Ooh look the speedster is back. Mr bush are you an anger management specialist if you are I hope your better at that than sticking to speed limits.

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