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    • I have just read the smaller print on their signs. It says that you can pay at the end of your parking session. given that you have ten minutes grace period the 35 seconds could easily have been taken up with walking back to your car, switching on the engine and then driving out. Even in my younger days when I used to regularly exceed speed limits, I doubt I could have done that in 35 seconds even when I  had a TR5.
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    • Thank you for posting up the results from the sar. The PCN is not compliant with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4. Under Section 9 [2][a] they are supposed to specify the parking time. the photographs show your car in motion both entering and leaving the car park thus not parking. If you have to do a Witness Statement later should they finally take you to Court you will have to continue to state that even though you stayed there for several hours in a small car park and the difference between the ANPR times and the actual parking period may only be a matter of a few minutes  nevertheless the CEL have failed to comply with the Act by failing to specify the parking period. However it looks as if your appeal revealed you were the driver the deficient PCN will not help you as the driver. I suspect that it may have been an appeal from the pub that meant that CEL offered you partly a way out  by allowing you to claim you had made an error in registering your vehicle reg. number . This enabled them to reduce the charge to £20 despite them acknowledging that you hadn't registered at all. We have not seen the signs in the car park yet so we do not what is said on them and all the signs say the same thing. It would be unusual for a pub to have  a Permit Holders Only sign which may discourage casual motorists from stopping there. But if that is the sign then as it prohibits any one who doesn't have a permit, then it cannot form a contract with motorists though it may depend on how the signs are worded.
    • Defence and Counterclaim Claim number XXX Claimant Civil Enforcement Limited Defendant XXXXXXXXXXXXX   How much of the claim do you dispute? I dispute the full amount claimed as shown on the claim form.   Do you dispute this claim because you have already paid it? No, for other reasons.   Defence 1. The Defendant is the recorded keeper of XXXXXXX  2. It is denied that the Defendant entered into a contract with the Claimant. 3. As held by the Upper Tax Tribunal in Vehicle Control Services Limited v HMRC [2012] UKUT 129 (TCC), any contract requires offer and acceptance. The Claimant was simply contracted by the landowner to provide car-park management services and is not capable of entering into a contract with the Defendant on its own account, as the car park is owned by and the terms of entry set by the landowner. Accordingly, it is denied that the Claimant has authority to bring this claim. 4. In any case it is denied that the Defendant broke the terms of a contract with the Claimant. 5. The Claimant is attempting double recovery by adding an additional sum not included in the original offer. 6. In a further abuse of the legal process the Claimant is claiming £50 legal representative's costs, even though they have no legal representative. 7. The Particulars of Claim is denied in its entirety. It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief at all. Signed I am the Defendant - I believe that the facts stated in this form are true XXXXXXXXXXX 01/05/2024   Defendant's date of birth XXXXXXXXXX   Address to which notices about this claim can be sent to you  
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EPC ANPR PCN - Trinity Street, Bolton BL3 6DH.overstay


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because no one has posted on it for the last 2456 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

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hello... i've just been reading this thread

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?472401-Euro-car-parks-PCN-Trinity-Street-Bolton-BL3-6DH.&p=5050117#post5050117

 

have also been hit with a parking charge notice from the bandits at the same car park (Bolton Shopping Park).

How did this case end up?

I am wondering if it's worth challenging it or not.

thank you!

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Hi OB". Follow the advice already given in that thread and you won't go wrong.

 

You should definitely challenge it, because they have no reason to make you pay as they have made so many mistakes. Remember, they are just cowboy clampers doing something else.

 

Sadly though very few people come back to update us.

They usually send off the appeal to POPLA, win and we never hear from them.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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Hi, thanks for the quick reply. I will possibly open another thread..

 

. I was interested to learn what the outcome was with the previous poster (who will possibly have been notified after I wrote something there).

 

One question before I do though.

.. if I log the appeal what happens to the 14 days of 'discounted' charge?

Is that put on hold or will it switch to 70 regardless?

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Ignore their timelines

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Please give more info.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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Post all info about the PCN please. Including history of it.

 

regarding your original question,

yes. If you dont appeal in the time frame, then the discount wont apply.

 

However as its private land, you wont have to pay anyway.

But we need to info in order to help you.

 

The fact you're asking that question shows you are thinking of paying, when you absolutely wont have to.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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its a Parking Charge Notice from euro car parks.

asking for £70 reduced to £40 if paid within 14 days

(am I right in thinking this is put on hold if I log an appeal within the said 14 days?)

 

Basics are that the vehicle overstayed it's welcome by 22 minutes.

Passenger in the car had an ailment that meant easing it with morphine

 

on the day in question,

person got tired and needed to take a short rest (of around 30-45 mins) causing the overstay.

 

2 other passengers can testify to that along with a 3rd party person who we chatted to at the time of the problem. person is also a blue badge holder.

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For PNC's received through the post [ANPR camera capture]

 

please answer the following questions.

 

1 Date of the infringement 27 July

 

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] 03 August

 

3 Date received 05 August

 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [y/n?] Yes

 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Yes (of number plate & of full car (requested))

 

6 Have you appealed? {y/n?] post up you appeal] Not yet (see below)

 

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up N/A

 

7 Who is the parking company? Euro car parks

 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] Bolton Shopping Park, Trinity Street, Bolton BL36DH

 

***Appeal Letter ***

You issued me with a parking ticket on 27 July 2017 but I believe it was unfairly issued. I decline your invitation to name the driver, which is not required of me as the keeper of the vehicle.

· Mitigating circumstances

There are mitigating circumstances to explain why the vehicle was parked where it was and the charge should be waived for this reason. Please see * below as proof of claim.

 

· The charge is disproportionate and not commercially justifiable

The amount you have charged is not based upon any commercially justifiable loss to your company or the landowner. In my case, the charge you are asking for far exceeds the cost to the landowner. The requested fee for an overstay of 22 minutes is excessive

 

... Then I explain the issue as in previous post (no I, me, us, we, etc is included)

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Change the letter. You stated that they issues YOu. They did not. They issued the driver of the vehicle. By stating you, you just confirmed to them you were the driver.

 

Also you waffle on in your appeal. Why? because no matter what you put, they will deny the appeal. tell them donald trump came to bolton and you had a nice chat so you were distracted. Tell them anything, it doesnt matter what. You just want the popla code.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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...and then what? Once I have a POPLA code what grounds do I have for a successful appeal? At the moment I just feel I'll go through a load of hassle and end up paying £70 and not £40.

I need to understand what i have that will work 100%

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Read these forums. There are literally dozens of threads with the EXACT same issue as you and theyve all won.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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There is no guarantee with any appeal. Send your appeal within 14 daysl, do NOT allude/name driver. In your explanation of circumstances I suggest "I am informed that a person in the vehicle became unwell, requiring an injection of morphine and could not contue for x mins, hence the enforced overstay."

See if they re-offer discount. They are not obliged to do so.

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I've been trawling forums all day and while ive collected some useful info, Ive failed to find anything exactly the same. I still dont even know if the reduced £40 remains after i file the appeal.

Will it increase to £70 regardless after 14 days?

Will it increase after ECP reject the 1st appeal?

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Don't worry about this stupid discount or anytime scales

You can put you dog was longer in mac'ds toilet

It don't matter you won't win but you need the popla code

 

Any chance of sign photos?

Any on that other thread?

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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I did mention in the 1st post that the person is a blue badge holder.

 

Signage in the car park says "blue badge holders only within marked bays" with small print under saying "please inform us if you wish to park longer than the maximum time indicated. Valid badge must be displayed".

 

Another sign mentions the site is patrolled... presumably an additional note to the blue badge in the window is sufficient to extend?

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Its a ruse

BB's mean nowt on private land

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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OB2 most parking companies operate to take as much money off motorists as they can regardless of the legality of how they do it. We help motorists to avoid paying them any money at all.

 

You say that you have been trawling forums looking for guidance-well done for that. However there are so many things that parking companies get wrong whilst carrying out their work of parting our money from us so you have to thing wider than just overstaying.

 

To help us could you please send us photgraphs of the signs and notices in the car park. Often they do not comply with the Law which means they have no right to even demand money. In addition could you please show us all the letters you have from them suitably redacted so no one can see who you are. Some parking companies make a total hash of their documents so that they are not POFA compliant for example or they attempt to charge more money than they lawfully can. Only by seeing the notices they have sent can this be discerned.

 

Following on, many times these companies do not have the right to charge people since they do not have the correct authority from the landowner and/or they may not have planning permission to erect the car park notices which once again means they cannot demand money from anyone.

 

As you were carrying a disabled badge [it counts for little with parking companies as it Popla a fis another hurdle that they have to get over before they can take your money] that brings into play the Disability Act and the Equality Act for you.

 

Euro parks are not as vigorous as some of the others in chasing down motorists . For instance Europarks only took less than 200 people to Popla compared to Parking Eye that took over 5000 in that same year so there is not too much to be worried about.

 

So if you could post up their silly requests for money there will be several members on here will cheerfully rip them to pieces and show you that there is nothing to worry about. And if you could also post up the photos that should further allay your fears.

 

Many on here advocate looking at the parking-prankster and you could try looking at his .com site rather than his blogspot and you might find Europarks mentioned there as well as other cases where motorists have stayed longer than the notices state.

 

The other thing to try is to write[a letter not an email] to the land owner and point out it is no way to treat a genuine customer who is having health problems-it would not look good in the local paper. That often has a quicker result than exchanging letters with EUROparks who do not care two figs for your reasons-they just want your money.

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these are the signs on the car park and I've added the letter I received

Should I get a photo of the sign at the entrance also?

 

http://s1068.photobucket.com/user/bangoobaji/library/signs

 

My point is that if i put the blue badge in the window with an additional note i have a case, right?

 

They don't say on the sign how to inform

I would guess it'd be seen by the person on patrol (they say its patrolled on the other sign).

 

I was caught purely by entry/exit cameras, no other photos exist.

Even if they don't give a monkeys about blue badges, its whats on their signs and their signs are their 'contract'

Edited by OB2
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no-one can see them unless they already have a photobucket account

so follow the upload instructions you can find on this forum in other threads.

 

Anything else you say about anything is just conjecture until we can see the ticket/NTK

but if it is ANPR then that is something to argue about later but probably as a separate issue regarding the BB.

 

You would be better taking that up with the landowner and threatening them with a law suit for allowing these bandits to behave the way they do in their name but lets get the focus back on what they have said.

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