Vodafone Debt Sold To Lowell - Amount Owed Is Wrong - Advice Needed

[WanderingMan]

Hello all.

 

A while back I defaulted on a Vodafone account, and now owe them a four figure sum.

 

I haven't been able to clear the debt due to low income and focusing on priority debts.

 

I can't remember if I received a default notice or not (the default is on my credit reports) but the amount that is in the letter of assignment is double than what is owed. The amount owed is on the default on the credit reports and the previous letters received from Vodafone, I'm 100% sure that the amount I was originally told I owed is correct.

 

What I don't understand is that amount on the letter of assignment is exactly double of the true value of the debt.

 

The default was placed in June last year so I can't understand why or how the amount owed can double in 9 months when the service was cancelled before June 2016.

 

Can they legally double a debt when they sell it to Lowells?

 

Any advice regarding this would be appreciated.

[BankFodder]

No, of course they can't double the debt.

 

You're probably dealing with the usual Vodafone incompetence – the kind of thing for which they have already been receiving large fines from the industry regulator.

 

I think you're gonna have to begin by sending an SAR to get the complete file which will allow you to understand what is going on.

 

Have you got a full set of your own statements?

 

When you say that you owe them a four figure sum, is there doubled figure or what you agree to?

 

Maybe you can tell us a bit more about this alleged debt and how it manages to arrive to 4 figures

[WanderingMan]

Hi, the debt came around due to an unexpected business problem and break up of a relationship so my account with Vodafone defaulted. I ended up with a lot of other debts due to this too with HMRC, local council, bank etc.

 

I have every letter I ever received from Vodafone since I first started a phone contract with them (I'm a bit of a hoarder when it comes to paperwork and documents).

 

All the previous mail I've received from them has a balance of just over £1000, the final balance was made up of several months line rental for 2 phones and various other charges. Every letter I've received from them since then has this balance so I don't think interest or charges are being added. The default balance is the same of the final balance.

 

I need to go through the paperwork again but I'm sure the balance on the default is correct. I can't understand how they have managed to double it when the contract with Vodafone is finished and defaulted.

 

I'll get a SAR off to them this afternoon.

[unclebulgaria67]

I had very similar happen with Lowell when dealing with a relatives debt. They appear to make ' mistakes' with debt amounts. My relatives debt had somehow increased from about £800 to about £2400. When a complaint was raised with Lowell, they wrote off the debt and paid compensation. This was quite awhile ago and i was tempted to raise with the FSA at the time, but thought that Lowell would just say it was a mistake.

 

It is important that people chased by any DCA, do check with the original creditor, what the actual debt amount is.

[BankFodder]

I had very similar happen with Lowell when dealing with a relatives debt. They appear to make ' mistakes' with debt amounts. My relatives debt had somehow increased from about £800 to about £2400. When a complaint was raised with Lowell, they wrote off the debt and paid compensation. This was quite awhile ago and i was tempted to raise with the FSA at the time, but thought that Lowell would just say it was a mistake.

 

It is important that people chased by any DCA, do check with the original creditor, what the actual debt amount is.

 

Well this sounds very interesting. Maybe UB can explain to you how he handled it because if there is some compensation available then it would be worth looking at

[unclebulgaria67]

Well this sounds very interesting. Maybe UB can explain to you how he handled it because if there is some compensation available then it would be worth looking at

 

I kept the paperwork at the time ( no longer have it) when it was passed around between different DCA's. The debt amount was changed several times for no reason. It was not related to interest or charges, as the debt had round numbers. I use the word mistake, because i can't see that any DCA would knowingly have staff altering debt amounts or even allow it to happen.

 

All letters sent were recorded delivery and to the CEO of the DCA's. Specific mention was made to the debt amount being altered for no apparent reason. When Lowell passed the debt to Aktiv Kapitol, i wrote to their CEO advising that the debt amount sold to them by Lowell was not correct and they need to enquire with Lowell why this was the case, if necessary involving CSA and/or regulators. Then had a two line response from AK, saying they had passed it back to Lowell and they would not be dealing with it. It then went quite for months, before Lowell started chasing the debt and it was back at the original amount of £800, not the £2400 they had written about before.

 

I then used all the information i had on file with a complaint to Lowell, threatening to take it much further with regulators. The debt was written off and compensation issued.

 

This is why on a number of threads have told people they must verify debts being chased, as the amount may be incorrect. Have always wondered how many people are paying debts back, when the amount is wrong. Perhaps CAG should seek a number of sample cases, where people are paying debts back and check the amount of debt is correct. Get an SAR off to original creditors and the work out what the debt should be. If it is found the DCA's are overcharging on debts, then possibly a massive claim back like PPI.

[brassnecked]

Perhaps Lowell add interest and handling charges or some such unlawful additions. Would be good to know.

[Pewpew]

I sent a prove it letter to lowell regrading a vodafone debt as you can't send a CCA request, they have to prove how the debt started going back to £0 my account has been on hold for months and months and it pushed it into the statue barred time limit

 

They sent me some account information going to minus a few hundred pounds told them i wanted to know how it started as i believe the account was left in good order they still send me letters saying the account is on hold and they are sorry they are taking so long getting the information

[fkofilee]

Lowell have major issues trying to verify amounts correctly with Vodafone. Vodafones system seems to be somewhat extremely unreliable and randomly sometimes doubles debts etc.

It really is terrible.

[WanderingMan]

Sorry for the delay in updating, everything seems to be going slowly at the moment.

 

I've wrote a letter to Vodafone to see what they say.

 

A quick search on Google would suggest that this isn't a one off and is something that happens often, makes me wonder how many people fall for it and pay more for their debts than they should. I also notice Lowell are no stranger when it comes to using underhand methods of debt collection.

[silverfox1961]

Hi

With Vodafone STILL being the most complained about company, never be surprised at what you find on the net. In their case, they upgraded (?) their systems which basically stuffed thousands of accounts and even after many, many updates, the problems remained, resulting in the £4.4m fine. They are getting better but by no means are they anywhere near a normal service.

 

Now, when VF terminate an account, they charge the full amounts outstanding ( x by the remaining months) but don't discount this figure to remove the facilities that were provided in the contract. With landline customers who cancel during the contract get a termination fee which is lower than the monthly rental. Is this fair. No! Also, when VF transfer an account to a debt collector (not the sale of the debt) as they don't have a debt collection arm, VF add on an admin fee which is (or was-not checked recently) of 15% or £100 whichever is the lower.

 

If the debt collector fails to elicit a response or get a response they don't want to hear, they pass it back to VF. Eventually VF sell the debt (including the added charges) to a debt buyer. Lowell in this case who seem to think it is OK to file a court claim without all the necessary paperwork required. By this, I mean the agreement. Any agreement with VF are sent to secure storage but they don't file them in any particular order meaning that the find it would take an extraordinarily long time so they don't often bother.

 

I assume you did send them a SAR and that will take time to come back. If VF come back to you after the majority of time has passed and ask for more proof of ID I would complain. By this I mean that if after say, 30 days out of the 40 allowed they ask for more ID then they are using that as a delaying tactic. They should contact you for more info quickly as they don't have to start the process until you have provided the required information.

 

It is very likely that VF will supply the data on a CD which is password protected however, they will include the password with the CD. Good data protection eh!

 

Sorry for the long post but VF and their appalling customer service still needs addressing, especially the over seas call centres.

[unclebulgaria67]

Sorry for the delay in updating, everything seems to be going slowly at the moment.

 

I've wrote a letter to Vodafone to see what they say.

 

A quick search on Google would suggest that this isn't a one off and is something that happens often, makes me wonder how many people fall for it and pay more for their debts than they should. I also notice Lowell are no stranger when it comes to using underhand methods of debt collection.

 

Why not send Vodafone a subject access request, asking for everything e.g copy of contract agreement, statements of account.

[fkofilee]

When I dealt with the ID Fraud From Lowell etc They advised me that Vodafone are unable to get agreements easy. I asked for how the contracts were taken etc and where they were taken from etc

They couldn't supply them, so they shut the accounts Morgans down.

[WanderingMan]

Okay have a few developments...

 

No response from Vodafone Customer Service, but this doesn't surprise me as they weren't interested in responding to my letters when my financial difficulties started. So I emailed the CEO and received a letter a few days later from the CEO's office. I don't know if it was just me, but I found the letter confusing although it did confirm that the amount I thought I owed was the correct amount and that the amount Lowell claims I owe was wrong. They also stated that they had no record of sending me a letter with the inflated amount on it (the letter was a Vodafone letterhead from their collections department). So either Vodafone haven't been honest that they have sent the letter or Lowell is sending out letters with Vodafone letterheads.

 

The letter from Vodafone claims that the inflated amount was an administration error.

 

I have also emailed Lowell, I received an email back saying that they won't communicate by email unless I give them my date of birth. I haven't received any letters from them.

 

A friend advised me to check my credit report, she had a debt passed to Lowell a few year ago and the default for the original debt disappeared and was replaced with a new default from Lowell with a new default date. So I have checked my statutory credit report with all 3 agencies. There's nothing on Call Credit. The Vodafone default has disappeared from Equifax (wasn't due to disappear until 2022) but no new defaults have appeared and I'm still waiting on Experian. I'll check my credit reports again in a few weeks to see if there's been any funny business.

 

I haven't yet sent a SAR as finances are a bit tight at the moment but this is something I'm planning on, I would love to know what they have on file.

 

the advice I've received on here has been first class

[silverfox1961]

Well, at least VF have admitted the amounts are wrong but I bet there are still admin charges in there somewhere. As soon as you can, send the SAR but include loads of identity proof. DO NOT send original documents, just copies. This will stop them delaying the response. VF have some SAR forms on their web site. Don't use them as they limit what you can demand. Use the templates here and modify to your own situation.

 

I would also include in the SAR a demand to see the agreement. We know this will be very hard to find as it is stored off site. They will say that agreements are not covered under the DPA but as the agreement is not available under the Consumer Credit Act, there is no other way to get it.

My belief is that as the agreement has your personal details on it, this should form part of their disclosure.

 

I was looking around the web the other day and found this

 

http://tinyurl.com/l6y9zz6

 

While not really relevant to your case, it does give a good idea of what should happen

[WanderingMan]

Default has also disappeared from Experian, will check again in a few weeks as I have a feeling that Lowell will put another default in their place, possibly with new default dates.

 

While Vodafone have confirmed the amount owed by Lowell is wrong, Lowell have sent another letter that still has the wrong amount. They have also failed to reply to my previous 2 letters I sent them. Only response I had was to an email I sent, they replied asking for my date of birth and that they couldn't discuss the account by email any further without the date of birth. I understand that they would need my date of birth for data protection, but is there a way they could use it against it me? Although I'm sure they would probably have it already.

 

I have yet to send a SAR, I plan to do this after the weekend as funds are lacking at the moment.

[unclebulgaria67]

Default has also disappeared from Experian, will check again in a few weeks as I have a feeling that Lowell will put another default in their place, possibly with new default dates.

 

While Vodafone have confirmed the amount owed by Lowell is wrong, Lowell have sent another letter that still has the wrong amount. They have also failed to reply to my previous 2 letters I sent them. Only response I had was to an email I sent, they replied asking for my date of birth and that they couldn't discuss the account by email any further without the date of birth. I understand that they would need my date of birth for data protection, but is there a way they could use it against it me? Although I'm sure they would probably have it already.

 

I have yet to send a SAR, I plan to do this after the weekend as funds are lacking at the moment.

 

If you have written to Lowell and they have not responded, as long as you have copies of letters, as well as proof of posting, then do nothing more for now in regard to Lowell.

 

But you must get the SAR off to Vodafone when you can, as it might take over a month to get the info back.

 

The good thing is that it will be many months or years before Lowell looked to issue a court claim.