euro parking/gladstones claimform - PCN maghull centre merseyside **DISCONTINUED ++ COSTS**

[ste2562]

hi ericsbrother...you say glades often withdraw at the last moment after reading my defence...i only put a one line skeleton defence on the MCOL site...is it that one you are referring to

[ericsbrother]

when you get a court date sent

you are instructed to exchange documents 14 days before the hearing .

 

Gladdys usually delay sending their evidence to you and the court because

 

1 they are incompetent

 

2 they know they dont have a real claim to pursue but have misled their client into thinking they are invincible

 

3 they like to win by default so will not bother to do much work until they know what they are up against.

 

When they see a decent defence they often cut and run,

saving them the cost of attending

and then try to wiggle out of paying your costs for their unreasonable behaviour.

 

all this is months away yet

you should be gathering as much info as you can,

 

there are other claims from this site that have been dropped after one claim came a cropper

so glean what you can about that and use it to your advantage.

[ste2562]

thanks ericsbrother

...starting to get a grip of the procedure and will keep on top of it.

 

 

..i will put together a defence based on what advice I've been given here together with all the pics i have taken ..

.one pic i am uploading with this post displaying a vandalised sign just after entering the west carpark...

vandalised sign.pdf

[ste2562]

hi ericsbrother

..as we don't know how we breached the parking conditions because gladdys haven't responded to our CPR request .

.i.e we could have parked over the white lines of the parking bay.

 

 

.how would we defend that in court..

.also if other cars are parked over the white line which does happen regularly

how are you expected then to park without doing so.

. and could this explanation be used to our defence..

[ericsbrother]

dont get ahead of yourself,

follow the deadlines given by the court

 

when you get a letter telling you to attend on such a date and exchange documents 14 days prior to that we will suggest something to add to your witness statement.

 

You can go for a strike out before that

but at the moment that is not a worthwhile move.

Let them do what they have to do next.

as long as you submitted your 1 line skeleton defence it will be enough at the moment.

 

Take some time reading other threads,

planning law- 2007 Town and Country planning Act part about advertising hoardings

- POFA,

the Parking prankster's blog etc

 

so you can see what sort of things you are going to need to submit and take on the day if that day arrives.

 

Panicking now about such points and then forgetting them later isn't going to keep you focussed.

[ste2562]

hi ericsbrother...thanks for putting my mind at ease...nice to know there is support for us..

thank you

[ste2562]

hi ericsbrother.

..just received a letter from liverpool county court

 

 

..notice of allocation to the small claims track (hearing)

 

this will take place on 26th july 2017..

..going to read through it when i get chance.

..might not be back here for a few days as we have 2 members of the family very ill in hospital

[ericsbrother]

OK,

you will get more letters in the interim

but make sure that you are in a position to send in your evidence bundle by the 12th Jul.

you may well get instructions with this allocation letter or it may come separately.

 

Now is the time to consider sending a letter asking for a strike out of the claim if you feel that they havent shown why they are claiming from you.

 

I will reread your thread and suggest whether to go for this or not.

Gladdys are very lazy on paperwork because they dont want to spend time on it as most cases dont get to a hearing.

 

If they put in the hours they dont profit.

if they lose then the client pays,

not them so dont care about the actual result either way.

[ste2562]

hi ericsbrother,

just received the witness statement off gladstones, dated 9th may 2017,

they have confirmed it has been filed with the court,

 

reason for issue - parking without displaying a valid permit.

..they have included photo evidence of the car parked.

 

..am i allowed to speak in court for my wife?

as of recent events i don't think she will be up for it

[ericsbrother]

their witness statement is just another abuse of process,

they havent filed it yet as a WS so it is meaningless.

 

Can you speak for your wife?

Yes, you can as long as she attends the hearing and you claim the right to as a lay representative.

 

Take a copy of the relevant legislation and guidance with you

and when you ask for this

( judge cant refuse but some get confused beteween type of representatives such as MacKenzie friend)

 

also ask if the person representing Euro is either an employee of Gladdys or a solicitor

and if the latter you want their SRA roll number.

 

Chances are the local solicitors hired for the hour will send a paralegal along who has no right of audience as they are not instructed directly be the claimant, who is not present.

 

If someone from Euro pitches up then their representative will have the same lay rep rights rather than anything special.

 

You should do this because if Gladdys are up to their usual money saving tricks

the judge will tell the rep they cant speak and cant question you

 

so all the evidence they will have is their shoddy paperwork,

which you will metaphorically tear to shreds.

[ste2562]

hi ericsbrother, thanks for the reply.

 

..i have noticed the photo of the signage they have included in their evidence is for the other car park where the parking is free for 2 hours .

 

..no other photos of signage included just photos of the car itself parked in the bay.

 

..so when i send my pack to them will they realise they haven't included the right signage

[ericsbrother]

dont be in a hurry to submit your defence or they will change it.

 

When you are instructed to submit your WS etc to court and to the other party by a certain date

(this will happen when you get the allocation date)

make sure that it arrives on the last possible day so they cant then try and introduce it as new evidence.

 

You will also be making a complaint to court regarding the lack of a cause of action and ask for the claim to be struck out on this basis.

 

They will have got other things wrong as well so there will be several reason why you ask for this

[ste2562]

hi ericsbrother...as this is a first for me in a county court...bit daunting.

 

.i know this is a self help forum but any chance of a little help on the best way to word my defence into some sort of format.

 

.i have a reasonable idea but want it to be presented in the best way possible.

 

regards

[honeybee13]

I'm sure the guys will help you. When is your court date please?

 

HB

[dx100uk]

twill be the 2 line defence available on any

 

bw excel vcs claimform

 

thread

 

type the above in the search CAG box of the top red toolbar

[dx100uk]

opps you used the word defence

its not a defence you've already filed that

 

 

its a witness statement you want.

 

 

dx

[ericsbrother]

first of all organise your stuff so you have your WS, pictures of signage, letters sent and received etc then the case summaries and case law you are going to refer to.

 

Also you will need a copy of the POFA, a copy of the legislation regarding rights of representation ( see the parking pranksters latest blog and then look out the older ones on the same) copies ofcompelling cases like the ones about representation etc.

 

You basically use the shotgun approach to this, hit them with everything and see what does the damge afterwards. Certain things will be more importnat for the thrust of your arguments but dont foregt things like planning consent or lack of it ( and copy of legislation that shows theuir signs are not informational but an advertisement of a unlilateral contract ( so Chaill v the carbolic Smake Ball co is aother case you will have to familiarise yourself with. informational signs are things like "fire Exit" and "Bus Stop" bu these abdits will claim they fall in this exemption.

 

Once you ahve shown tsomething they ahve done is unreliable the judge will emasure everyhthing they say with the same burden of proof on their part.

 

Also read up on the difference between money due under a contract and money due for a breach of contract. ECP/Gladdys wont have made this clear so they may well be asking for teh wrong things and then try and wing it and claim they are the same. Beavis is very clear they arent should they want to try that on.

Edited May 18, 2017 by honeybee13
Paras.

[honeybee13]

I'm not sure of the right place to link the case to, but is this the case you meant, EB?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlill_v_Carbolic_Smoke_Ball_Co

 

HB

[ste2562]

thanks EB, i will need to sort this over the next couple of weeks as i am on holiday before the court case...the court case is the 26th july 2017 , I'm not back till the 9th july which gives me 3 days to submit it after that...post to gladstones and most probably hand deliver to liverpool court

[ericsbrother]

yes.

The reason for getting you to look at it is so you understand why an advertisement can be an offer of a unilateral contract and thus the reverse is true,

 

they are ADVERTISING a contract so it is an advert not an advisory sign that would be exempt from the Advertising Display regs of the 2007 Town and Country Planning Act.

 

the act goes into depth about what is exempt and then lists some stipulations for other non-exempt signs

but the key thing is that they dont fall into the exempt category so they need planning permission or a criminal act is being committed.

 

You cannot agree to enter into a criminal compact so there can be no contract to breach due to "performance"

ie they can never keep their side of the bargain so cannot be offer and acceptance.

 

To get anywhere with this argument you will need to take a copy of the legislation with you and highlight the relevant parts which will be near the bottom of the list of types of signs etc.

The council cant be bothered to enforce these minor things because they are too busy with building regs, etc so generally let them slip.

 

There are cases where coucils have enforced

the PE "Mansfield case" is one

 

look at thread from about a year ago regarding this and again copy what info you can glean

but more importantly the planning application

and show that PE tried to pull the wool over the council's eyes

and they didnt have it

they had to remove all of their stuff and start again.

 

other cases have been defended successfullly on planning alone

but there again some have been lost because the judge accepted the parking co's assertion they are above the law and dont need PP as the signs are advisory.

 

What makes a bigger impact is the inadequae signage argument,

badly placed,

unreadable from a moving vehicle when entering car park,

unlit,

confusing wording etc.

 

Also the ir lawyers wont have stated whether the money is owed as a contractual obligation or for breach of contract.

Again exact wording of sign and the various parts of the demand can kill this off

and the wording of the claim will be so vague it is worthless as an explanation

 

again worthlesss and open to challenge in your witness statement and as a request to strike out for failing to show a cause of action against you

[ste2562]

thanks EB...

.got a lot going on at the moment and this court case has almost faded into insignificance but i will be fighting it.

 

..just going to get the weekend out of the way and then get my head back into it all.

 

.having problems finding the info required on the legislation regarding rights of representation.

 

.i have also emailed the council regarding planning for the signage 4 days ago but have had no correspondence back from them yet

 

thanks again for all your help and input...you have been a massive help

[DragonFly1967]

Depends which side of the argument (regarding representation) that you're coming from.

 

If you want a Lay Representative, take a copy of The Lay Representatives (Rights of Audience) Order 1999

 

If you're going to question whether their representative has a right of audience, you'll need a copy of the above, plus a copy of the Legal Services Act 2007. Section 192 and copies of the transcripts of McShane and Lincoln and Ellis and Larson

[ste2562]

hi.

.i have tried to find out from sefton council about planning permission for the signage at maghull shopping centre for euro parking services..

 

i have emailed them twice ,

the last one was 25th may with no correspondence back

 

...just spoke to someone in planning who told me they did not need planning for the signage but was not 100% sure..

 

.siad he would be phoning me back after consulting a colleague.

 

.now confused because i thought they did need planning..

 

.can you throw any light on this for me so i can at least argue the point when they return my call

[dx100uk]

they do need PP

probably just a junior that's never had to deal with such a question

 

 

quite usual.

 

 

dx

[ericsbrother]

usual misunderstanding of the law.

It is such a minor thing for council planning depts

they dont usually even know about such matters until it is brought to their attention.

 

However,

it does confirm they havent applied for it and thus doont have it.

the bandits usually try and claim that it is an "informational" sign under list 2a or 2b. Cobblers,

that is for things like railway station name plates and signs saying "fire exit" or "bus stop"

 

If they want to claim it is an offer of a contract then it must be an advertisement of such as per Cahill v the Carbolic Smoke Ball co.

 

That deteremined that a unilateral contract is an advertisement offering something,

whether to an individual or the whole world and is binding.

 

Could it be that the parking co's are now saying that isnt the case?

Usual eating cake and having it double dealing