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    • sorry she is a private individual, the cars are parking on her land. she can clamp the cars. only firms were outlawed from doing it bazza. thats what the victims of people dumping cars on their drives near airports did and they didn't not get prosecuted.    
    • The DVLA keeps two records of you. One as a driver and one for your car. If they differ you might find out in around a month when they will send you a reminder as well as to your other half for their car. If you receive nothing then you can be fairly sure that you were tailgating though wouldn't explain why they didn't pick up your car on one of drive past their cameras. However even if you do get a PCN later then your situation will not change. The current PCN does not comply with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4 which is the main law that covers private parking. It doesn't comply for two reasons. 1. Section 9 [2][a] states  (2)The notice must— (a)specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates; The PCN states 47 minutes which are the arrival and departure times not the time you were actually parked. if you subtract the time you took to drive from the entrance. look for a parking place  park in it perhaps having to manoeuvre a couple of times to fit within the lines and unload the children reloading the children getting seat belts on  driving to the exit stopping for cars pedestrians on the way you may well find that the actual time you were parked was quite likely to be around ten minutes over the required time.  Motorists are allowed a MINIMUM of ten minutes Grace period [something that the rogues in the parking industry conveniently forget-the word minimum] . So it could be that you did not overstay. 2] Sectio9 [2][f]  (ii)the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver, the creditor will (if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met) have the right to recover from the keeper so much of that amount as remains unpaid; Your PCN does not include the words in brackets and in 2a the Act included the word "must". Another fail. What those failures mean is that MET cannot transfer the liability to pay the charge from the driver to the keeper. Only the driver is now liable which is why we recommend our members not to appeal. It is so easy to reveal who was driving by saying "when I parked the car" than "when the driver parked the car".  As long as they don't know who was driving they have little chance of winning in court. This is partly because Courts do not accept that the driver and the keeper are the same person. And because anyone with a valid motor insurance policy is able to drive your cars. It is a shame that you are too far away to get photos of the car park signage. It is often poor and quite often the parking rogues lose in Court on their poor signage alone. I hope hat you can now relax and not panic about the PCN. You will receive many letters from Met, their unregulated debt collectors and sixth rate solicitors threatening you with ever higher amounts of money. The poor dears have never read the Act which states quite clearly that the maximum sum that can be charged is the amount on the signs. The Act has only been in force for 12 years so it may take a  few more years for the penny to drop.  You can safely ignore everything they send you unless or until they send you a Letter of Claim. Just come back to us if they do send one of those love letters to you and we will advise on a snotty letter to send them. In the meantime go on and enjoy your life. Continue reading other threads and if you do get any worrying letters let us know. 
    • Hopefully the ANPR cameras didn't pick up the two vehicles, but I don't think you're out of the woods just yet. MET's "work" consists of sending out hundreds of these invoices every week so yours might be a few days behind your partner's. There is also the matter of Royal Mail.  I once sold two second-hand books to someone on eBay.  Weirdly the cost of sending them separately was less than the cost of sending them in one parcel.  So to save a few bob I sent them seperately.  One turned up the next day.  One arrived after four days.  They were  sent from the same post office at the same time! But let's hope I'm being too pessimistic. Please update us of any developments.
    • New version after LFI's superb analysis of the contract. Sorry, but you need to redo the numbering of the paras and of the exhibits in the right order after all the damage I've caused! Defendant's WS - version 4.pdf
    • Hi  no nothing yet. Hope it stays that way 😬
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Lowell/BW legal claimform - old o2 mobile 'debt'


Multay
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One thing im curious about. They say the early termination fee is based on a 24 month contract but then say they don't need to supply a copy of it, but that I'm bound by the terms and conditions... how does that work?

:)** Any opinion expressed by me is given with the best intentions - But I could be wrong so bear that in mind**:)

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Thanks for that... it's hard when it's so uneven. The directions were clear. Submitted by the 22nd or the case is struck out. Yet, they can still get away with sending in whenever they feel like it...

 

Oh and BTW they haven't got away with anything..that also will go in the skeleton argument.:wink:

We could do with some help from you.

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Oh and BTW they haven't got away with anything..that also will go in the skeleton argument.:wink:

Thanks Andy...

:)** Any opinion expressed by me is given with the best intentions - But I could be wrong so bear that in mind**:)

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One thing im curious about. They say the early termination fee is based on a 24 month contract but then say they don't need to supply a copy of it, but that I'm bound by the terms and conditions... how does that work?

 

Then they will have to prove that there is a 24 month contract:wink:

We could do with some help from you.

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urm poc says regulated

ws says unregulated...which is it lowells!!

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Oh yes... they sent me written confirmation that the poc are incorrect. They responded to my cca request saying so, which I referenced in my witness statement but they haven't mentioned in theirs...

:)** Any opinion expressed by me is given with the best intentions - But I could be wrong so bear that in mind**:)

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ok sorry should have checked..

 

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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No Problem DX - Thanks for looking at the thread!

 

 

Ok - So here is the evidence submitted by BW. I've taken out a lot of the substance of the bills. They have a screen shot of (I believe) Lowell's internal ERP system (I've no idea what that is supposed to prove), assignment letters from o2 and from Lowell and Terms and conditions printed off from o2's website in 2015.

 

 

Thanks in advance guys.

Lowell Exhibits.pdf

:)** Any opinion expressed by me is given with the best intentions - But I could be wrong so bear that in mind**:)

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Nothing regarding the alleged term of contract...IE 24 months ?

We could do with some help from you.

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No Nothing - I think they say that they do not need one in their witness statement. The fact I've had a bill from them and admit to having financial dealings in the past is enough.

 

 

Thanks. M

:)** Any opinion expressed by me is given with the best intentions - But I could be wrong so bear that in mind**:)

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Yes but the onus is on them to prove that you outright owe this money. There are plenty of factors that dont seem quite up to par in the claim IMHO.

Like the CCA Regulated PHone Contract issue for example.

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I'm no expert

but it seems to me there's lots not up to par..

. POC's are incorrect,

No agreement at all,

No Default notice which has to be important if they claim o2 terminated the contract,

massive charge for termination of contract,

no response to CPR 31.14 request

 

 

which prejudiced my ability to produce a reasonable defence and prevented any kind of mediation,

 

 

not filing witness statement (I checked with the court yesterday and they still haven't seen it)

even though the Directions specifically said to file by 22nd May or the case would be struck out.

 

They even have the nerve to say in the witness statement that there are parts where the onus of proof is on me!

 

I just have a sinking feeling that they have the edge as they are relying on the fact I have a had a contract with o2 and will harp on about that.

:)** Any opinion expressed by me is given with the best intentions - But I could be wrong so bear that in mind**:)

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Plenty to consider then Multay..I think it may be wise to submit a supplemental witness statement in this instance considering the late service of the claimants evidence.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHER

 

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Hi, funnily enough I just got this text message from BW...

 

 

Dear Multay, this is a message from BW Legal, we have recently written to you regarding your account. Did you know you can make payments online blah blah blah..."

 

So, what do I need to do? The woman at the court said I could write to the court and ask the evidence be thrown out but the letter will only be taken into consideration on the day of the hearing.

 

Thanks so much for all of your help... M

 

I'm no expert

but it seems to me there's lots not up to par..

. POC's are incorrect,

No agreement at all,

No Default notice which has to be important if they claim o2 terminated the contract,

massive charge for termination of contract,

no response to CPR 31.14 request

 

 

which prejudiced my ability to produce a reasonable defence and prevented any kind of mediation,

 

 

not filing witness statement (I checked with the court yesterday and they still haven't seen it)

even though the Directions specifically said to file by 22nd May or the case would be struck out.

 

They even have the nerve to say in the witness statement that there are parts where the onus of proof is on me!

 

I just have a sinking feeling that they have the edge as they are relying on the fact I have a had a contract with o2 and will harp on about that.

 

 

And they also do not reference in their witness statement that the POC are incorrect.

:)** Any opinion expressed by me is given with the best intentions - But I could be wrong so bear that in mind**:)

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Also Remember something else, while it may not apply in this circumstance ( I could be wrong) BW Legal made a mention of T&Cs that you were bound to - But these kept changing.

I understand that under any agreement, you must be informed of any changes to your agreements / T&Cs that they provide (Providing you are still a customer of course)

 

I remember seeing something in your case that shows that they admitted they knew the T&Cs may change and the charges may have fluctuated over time (Entry 14 in your scan) but nevertheless they are payable.

Then how can BW Legal be certain that this is the correct amount outstanding?

 

I maybe wrong and please tell me if i am but Gorgonzola cheese has less holes then this claim...

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So Guys, given that I'm in court on the 19th. what do you think I should do now (if anything). There was mention of preparing a skeleton argument and possibly a supplemental witness statement but in all honesty, I'm a bit out of my depth now.

 

I (wrongly) thought that once they didn't file on time that would be that and that it was unlikely they had any documentation at all, but they do and from what the court said, the judge will likely allow their evidence.

 

I'm not really sure what to argue now other than the POC being wrong and BW failing to follow directions and CPR.

 

Thanks again for all of your help.

 

Hi everyone... can you help at all? I know you guys are busy but I'm running out of time and have no idea what to do next to be honest... I can't really see how they will lose this one...

:)** Any opinion expressed by me is given with the best intentions - But I could be wrong so bear that in mind**:)

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Hi,

 

From what is said above it looks like I need to put together a skeleton argument and possibly a supplemental witness statement. Is there anyone who can help me with this? Court date is 19th and as things stand, I've a funny feeling ill lose. I'm not sure now if I should just settle with them and have done with it. I don't want to but I don't now know how to counter their arguments.

:)** Any opinion expressed by me is given with the best intentions - But I could be wrong so bear that in mind**:)

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Hi,

 

So I've had a go at a skeleton argument. I'm not sure it will hold much water but here it is.....

 

Claim number:

 

ABC (Claimant)

v

XYZ (Defendant)

 

In the xxxxxxxxxxxxxx county court

 

on 26th September 2016

 

SKELETON ARGUMENT

 

As the defendant in this case, wish to respectfully make the following points in my defence.

 

1. The Claimant has been extremely vague and somewhat confusing when outlining the basis of their claim.

Their Particulars of Claim refers to 'a mobile telecoms agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974', whereas their Witness Statement claims

“the balance of monies due against an unregulated telecommunications agreement”.

 

 

This being the case, I respectfully refer the Court to CPR 16.4 (1a) -

"(1) Particulars of claim must include -

(a) a concise statement of the facts on which the claimant relies."

The Claimant has clearly not complied with this rule.

 

2. In their Witness Statement, the Claimant refers to an agreement taken out by the defendant on 16th. November 2012 as a “O2 Unlimited 24 Month 8GB 4G Tariff”. The claimant is put to strict proof thereof.

 

3. In their Witness Statement, the Claimant refers to an agreement taken out by the defendant on 16th. November 2012 as a “O2 Unlimited 24 Month 8GB 4G Tariff.

At the time of the alleged default the defendant’s obligations under this agreement would have been discharged.

 

4. In their Witness Statement, the Claimant refers to an agreement taken out by the defendant on 16th. November 2012 as a “O2 Unlimited 24 Month 8GB 4G Tariff” the termination of which resulted in an early cancellation fee of £537.28. The claimant is unable to produce evidence of any such agreement.

 

5. The claimant states “the claimant believes the defendant will have nevertheless been charged Fees in accordance with these terms and conditions” The claimant is put to strict proof thereof.

 

6. The claimant failed to comply with my information request under CPR 31.14 prejudicing my ability form a suitable defence.

 

They claim they don't need and agreement or that they need to produce a default notice...

I've no idea if this is the case but given they say I took out a 24 month contract in 2012

how can they then claim for a early cancellation fee based on a default at the end of 2015 without producing an agreement with a date within 24 months of the default?

 

Sadly they did enter their witness statement in time - It was exactly 14 days before we go to court.

 

Any help at all would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks M

:)** Any opinion expressed by me is given with the best intentions - But I could be wrong so bear that in mind**:)

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Well, I need to be sending this tomorrow as I'm out of the country until Friday of next week so I guess I'll have to just chance it.

 

Thanks.

:)** Any opinion expressed by me is given with the best intentions - But I could be wrong so bear that in mind**:)

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Not a single person can look at this????

 

I only have until the 19th. I need to send this today really or I won't be able to get it to the court at all.

:)** Any opinion expressed by me is given with the best intentions - But I could be wrong so bear that in mind**:)

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Hello there.

 

I've flagged your thread for site team attention to see if someone can help.

 

HB

Thank you.

:)** Any opinion expressed by me is given with the best intentions - But I could be wrong so bear that in mind**:)

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