Millennium Door and Event Security/Gladstones - claimform - july 2012 PCN

[calibra]

Hi,

 

Only just come across this forum after doing a bit of research myself, so I'm partially through the process, but would like input on anything I'm doing right or wrong, or have missed anything important out.

 

History

----------------

Date of parking "event" was July 2012. PPC is a smallish one, local to me, as is the car park. I can give specific details, but I'm not sure that's wise on here? PPC I *think* was BPA at the time, but has since moved across to IPC.

 

Ticket was apparently placed on car. Any notices that were sent out (can't remember if there were any, as they were a common occurrence back then) were ignored, as was standard practice at the time.

 

Heard nothing more until January 2016, where post-Beavis they must've trawled through all their old cases and reactivated them via a letter from Gladstones.

I requested documentation - they sent me out images of car with ticket on and I *think* picture of signage. I heard nothing more for months, thought it had gone away, stupidly binned the documentation, and then in September received an really poor attempt at an LBC from Gladstones. It contained the date, the amount and a pointer back at "previous documentation sent".

 

I sent Gladstones an EMAIL (mistake?) requesting that they sent proper LBC with clear statement of facts, list of relevant documents, how the amount had been calculated and any ADR offering.

 

The next thing I got was the Court Papers. The Poc basically says nothing apart from the date, the costs and claiming the sum of the original £125 + 42.25 interest, along with the court fee and legal representative fees bringing the costs up to £250

 

Where I am with it.

-----------------------------------------

My research tells me that as the event was over 4 years, was pre-Pofa, and i have no idea who was driving, the case should never make it to court as they shouldn't be able to go after the Registered Keeper. Only the driver. There were multiple people insured to drive the car at that time (I have the old insurance certificate)

 

However I gather that it all depends on the judge - judges can be unpredictable.

 

So I'm still doing research. I'm about to send a Part 18 and a 31.14 request to Gladstones for information regarding the PPC/Landowner contract etc and also to get all documentation through so I can defend myself. I gather it's likely Gladstones will ignore my request.

 

I think it may be a good idea to send a SAR to the PPC and try and get the documentation off them too?

 

Without that documentation, without knowing exactly what they plan to rely on, I can only really use a standard templated defence, including the fact that it's pre-PofA and they haven't provided proof I was driving.

I can only hope that they don't have any further evidence (such as CCTV footage) and try and spring it on me in the hearing.

 

Is there anything else I can do, or should be doing?

 

Thanks

 

Cal

[dx100uk]

Can you fill this out please

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?465231-Received-a-Court-Claim-From-A-Private-parking-Speculative-invoice-How-To-Deal-With-It-HERE***Updated-Aug-2016***(1-Viewing)-nbsp

 

Also please fill this out

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?462118-Have-you-received-a-Parking-Ticket

 

Just send the cpr31:14

[calibra]

Name of the Claimant - Millennium Door and Event Security

 

Date of issue – 8 Nov 2016

 

Date to submit defence = - 9th dec by 4pm

 

What is the claim for –

 

DATE-XX July 2012

DESCRIPTION: MY REG

AMOUNT - £125

DUE DATE - XX AUG 2012

Total Due - £125

 

AND THE CLAIMANT CLAIMS

The Claimant claims the sum of £167.25 for Parking charges and indemnity costs if applicable including £42.25 interest pursuant to S.69 of the County Courts Act 1984 Rate %8.00 pa from date above to 07/11/16

Same rate to Judgement or (sooner) payment

Daily rate to Judgement £0.03

Total debt and interest £167.25

********************************

What is the value of the claim? £125 plus 42.25 interest plus 50.00 Legal representative costs plus 25 court fee = £242.25

Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim ? the original PPC.

 

Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? Don't know what this means - is that the original notice from 2012?

[dx100uk]

Have you acknowledged the claim on mcol website?

[calibra]

Yes. An no defence submitted yet, so I believe I have until Dec 10th to do so.

[martin2006]

Hi Cal and welcome, one of the parking guru's will be along soin

[dx100uk]

note revised date of defence filing.

 

 

have you found the parking PPC CPR 31:14 ok?

[calibra]

have you found the parking PPC CPR 31:14 ok?

 

I haven't actually sent it yet - I may have overdone it a bit. Part 18 AND 31.14 AND my main defence. Maybe I'm trying to get everything in. Just hoping they'll drop it. Let me know if I have and I can edit it.

 

[removed]- dx

[dx100uk]

yea not a good idea that

 

 

can I remove it please

 

 

send our std one please..

 

 

to the solicitors

[Your address]

.

[Their address [solicitors]

.

[Date]

.

Dear Sir or Madam,

.

Re: (Claimant's name) v (Your name) Case No:

.

CPR 31.14 Request

.

On (date) I received the Claim Form in this case issued by you out of the (Name) county court.

.

I confirm having returned my acknowledgement of service to the court in which I indicate my intention to contest and counter claim all of your claim.

.

Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of [each of the following / the] document(s) mentioned in your Particulars of Claim:

.

1. proof of assignment from the landlord to create contracts and make claims in your own name.

.

2.proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and Country Planning Act 2007

the contract between VCS and the landowner that assigns the right to enter into contracts with the public and make claims in their own name,

Planning Permission for their signage under the Town and Country Planning Act 2007,

copies of the notice to driver,

notice to keeper and any other correspondence from [insert Claimant Name] or [insert Solicitors Name} to the defendant.

Give them 14 days to comply

.

You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the document(s) I have requested are disclosed at your earliest convenience..

.

Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy.

.

Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case.

.

Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any version(s) to include an obligation to recover and preserve such version(s) which are now in the possession of a third party.

.

In accordance with CPR 31.15© I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.

.

If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request please confirm in your response.

.

Yours faithfully

.

TYPE YOUR NAME DO NOT SIGN IT

[calibra]

Yes remove it if you think it'll do me harm. I'll write a new one tomorrow

[dx100uk]

you don't need to write a new one its above here

copy n paste insert sols and PPC name job done

[calibra]

Ok thanks.

 

I believe that Gladstone are likely to ignore the request, which leaves me with the option of sending a SAR to the PPC. However I'm unlikely to get that information back before I need to get my defence in.

 

So I guess that leaves me having to formulate my defence without any idea of the documents they will rely on. No signage, no ticket, no idea of whether they're trying for breach of contract or trespass or whatever.

 

And I can't change my defence afterwards? Seems a bit unfair that?

[silverfox1961]

Hi,

Sorry to the others for me jumping on this bandwagon. Millenium was with the BPA at the time, they should not be able to go after the keeper as before PoFA, only the driver was liable which is why PoFA was brought in. They should also be following the BPA code of practice even though they are now members of the IPC. They only joined the IPC a year ago. Prior to joining the IPC, they took no one to court yet this year they have taken 6 cases so far on less than 1000 parking tickets. I suspect they are likely to get 'Gladstoned'

 

 

 

The IAS don't follow PoFA at all therefore technically they can only go after the driver. Gladstones work on the principle that the keeper was also the driver but you are under no obligation to confirm or deny that- even in court. The fact you have the insurance document showing any driver will suffice to show that you would be unable to remember truthfully who was driving as it was so long ago. Gladstones don't give up and court will happen although nobody from Gladstones will appear a they use local solicitors to go to court on their behalf.

 

You are going to spend some time looking at defences which will include ' No Contract', 'Little or no signage', plus many, many other things.

[calibra]

How can I formulate a defence on no contract or little other no signage if I don't get the documentation on which they're going to rely?

 

I have no pictures of the signage they had at the time, or contracts, and I'm unlikely to get it before I need to submit my defence?

[dx100uk]

easy to do calibra don't panic

[calibra]

I'm about to send that CPR 31.14 request using your standard template, but I'm asking for the a verified and legible copy of each of the documents mentioned in the Poc.

 

The problem is, the Poc doesn't mention any documents?

 

Should I just be asking for all documents they plan to rely on?

[dx100uk]

just send it

that's a std gladdys POC

[calibra]

ok the 31.14 has just been sent. I don't expect to hear anything back, however if I don't get anything, I can use it alongside the Poc as evidence of "unreasonable behaviour" in the hearing?

 

I think it may be wise to send a SAR to the PPC now, starting the 40 day deadline?

[dx100uk]

no why?

waste of money and its not for you to prove the case but them.

[calibra]

I need the documentation. I want to know what they're planning to use against me? It was over 4 years ago. I've lost any original documentation they sent out. I don't know if they have CCTV footage or anything? Surely that's stuff I need to be aware of when choosing a defence?

[dx100uk]

no you don't.

 

 

go read the other threads.

 

 

its for them to produce what they intend to rely upon in court

 

 

your defence will put them to strict proof to produce it.

 

 

you don't want them to have anything and you don't want to find anything.

 

 

dx

[calibra]

What I'm trying to avoid, is them producing documentation I don't know about, on the day. If my main defence is pre-PofA and they need to prove that the RK was driving, I want to make sure I know they haven't got anything like CCTV, preferably BEFORE I submit my defence.

 

If I don't need the documents, what was the point of sending a 31.14 then? Just to show unreasonable behaviour?

[dx100uk]

they cant do that.

[renegadeimp]

Calm down, and follow the advice given. it is VERY easy to win against gladstones.

[ericsbrother]

They know that you dont have any paperwork from 4 years ago so are hoping that you panic and just pay up.

In short they have no claim against you at all.

 

There are things you can do to help defeat this,

for starters get down to the land concerned and photograph any signage there and also the entrance to the site from the public highway and the exact spot you parked ( to the best of your memory)

 

It would help us enormously if you can give the address of the place so we can google street noseyparker it as often their images are several years old and tell us quite a lot that they might not want people to know.

 

For someone to sue you over a parking on private land matter

they need to show thay are entitled to by either owning the land (they dont)

 

or have a proper contract with the landowner that assigns the rights of the landowner to enter into contracts by way of their signs with people parking there and to make civil claims in their own name.

 

For there to be any contract formed they must have planning permission for the signs and the signage must meet certain minimal requiremenst regaring wording, siting, size, tyoe of text and colour used etc.

If the current signs are poor then it is a sfe bet that any there 4 years ago were even worse.

 

Gladstones are leading this claim,

Millenium are going along with it becasue they havent had the misfortune of getting an ear bashing from a judge about the paucity of their claim and as Gladdys are charging them for doing this,

 

when YOU beat them they are paying not only your costs but their brilliant solicitors'

( who are the IPC as well but no conflict of interest there whatsoever!) charges as well.

 

So, you waste a bit of time, they lose about £500 all in.

 

The motivation for Gladdys is clear

- money for them and stuff everyone else,

even their IPC members but for a small outfit this is catastrophic

as most of them make a loss on parking activities

and rely on the unfair charges to earn their dishonest crust.