Article 50 Discussion

[unclebulgaria67]

In regard to food shortages because of a lack of labour to pick crops, I would have to say that the UK labour market is very poorly organised.  You would think that social media would help people living in cities and towns find work out in the countryside picking crops, but unfortunately this is not the case.

 

What should happen in every geographical location is that farms list the work that is required with a central register. People interested in the work would register their details and availability with the same register. Once the work arrangements are agreed, you then need some accommodation and/or transport arrangements put into place. With the workers either staying on or near the farms or travelling to/from the farms.

 

Government could help to fix this problem by providing resources to help farmers organise their recruitment.

 

There are plenty of people who want to work on farms, but they live in cities and towns miles away from farms, without own transport to travel to the different farms that would be offering work.

 

 

 

 

 

[honeybee13]

That sounds like a good idea, UB, I don't know if it's happening already.

 

There was a scheme last year, wasn't there? Brits were invited to help out on farms but I don't know how many stayed on. The last I read, it wasn't a very large percentage.

 

https://www.countryliving.com/uk/wildlife/farming/a31954445/help-feed-the-nation/

 

It seems that the standard of accommodation is part of the problem and Eastern Europeans are more likely to put up with living in caravans or tents.

 

One answer is to raise prices - are people willing to pay more for fruit and veg to support British farmers?

[unclebulgaria67]

There was an organisation that tried to recruit seasonal farm Labour last year, but the feedback I received from quite a few people, was that it did not work very well.  There were too many people registered looking for work and it was very difficult to match people with farm locations.  And people, need to be able to move around from farm to farm.

 

Which is where Government could step into help with setting up a better system.  Perhaps an agriculture recruitment agency, similar to how Government set up Manpower decades ago.

[tobyjugg2]

1 hour ago, unclebulgaria67 said:

In regard to food shortages because of a lack of labour to pick crops

 

I'm sure Tories think that way - let labour (voters) pick the crops and pay to be transported there out of their (very low) 'wages.

 

Good job a lot of the farms were going to go bust with the reduced markets, increased costs and increased low standards pacific competition anyway then eh?

(as many crop farms need dairy/meat income to stay afloat)

 

Quote

 

There are plenty of people who want to work on farms, but they live in cities and towns miles away from farms, without own transport to travel to the different farms that would be offering work.

 

 

Anything to support that opinion?

History tells us that the EU migrant communities did the work because they would do it cheaper and better than UK labour - as it was their way of life.

 

Edited June 20, 2021 by tobyjugg2

[unclebulgaria67]

Yes @tobyjugg2 In a professional capacity, I have talked to a lot of people who are interested iin finding work in Agriculture sector, but they have told me of the problems that they have had due to location of work available.  It is not just matching people to farms where the work is available, but there are also problems with the working conditions offered by some farm operators.  UK workers who have completed farm work before will not work on some farms due to the bad experiences they have had.  Word then gets around and the farms don't attract many recruits.

 

I think the issues @honeybee13 mentioned about accommodation are really important, but add to that the poor working conditions and you can understand why farms cannot attract UK workers,   The EU migrants may have accepted the conditions, but they are now  probably working in EU mainland countiries, with  possibly better pay and conditions.

[tobyjugg2]

Perhaps understand @unclebulgaria67that you are saying that lots of people would be interested if 'unskilled' (misnomer) farming work was not 'unskilled' (sic) farming work

- but they DON'T want the actual job as offered - probably even if they were transported there and back 'free'.

 

.. and that is my point

 

Lots of us would be competing for farm work if it entailed walking around the fields in the sunshine and fresh air for a thousand pounds a week - .. or even much less.

But it isn't.

Edited June 20, 2021 by tobyjugg2

[unclebulgaria67]

Quite often people live  at least 20 miles away from where the farm jobs are.  They have done farm work before, but  can't get to where the jobs are or would not be able to get  there for the start times which are often around 6am or before during mid-Summer.

 

There are also many people with no experience, who would like to have a work trial.  Some people won't cope with the physical demands of farm work, but people have  same issue  with warehouse work.

 

With the EU migrants not around to complete the work, UK Government working with the Agriculture sector will have to come up with a solution.

[honeybee13]

It took a few days but details that were in the Grocer article I linked to were in the Mail yesterday.

 

The hauliers and the British Retail Consortium don't agree on the effects of driver shortages but the Mail says the army are on standby to move food supplies.

 

Shoppers are 'facing shortage of chilled food this summer due to lack of lorry drivers and Brexit'

WWW.DAILYMAIL.CO.UK

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A double impact from Brexit and the Covid-19 pandemic is said to have sparked disruption to the chilled food supply chain, industry insiders say.

 

[honeybee13]

In case anyone knows someone this applies to, over 100,000 EU citizens in the UK haven't applied for settled status.

 

130,000 EU citizens on UK benefits yet to apply for settled status, leak suggests | Immigration and asylum | The Guardian

WWW.THEGUARDIAN.COM

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Scheme closes in nine days, with many still at risk of losing access to healthcare, jobs and homes

 

[tobyjugg2]

15 hours ago, honeybee13 said:

In case anyone knows someone this applies to, over 100,000 EU citizens in the UK haven't applied for settled status.

 

130,000 EU citizens on UK benefits yet to apply for settled status, leak suggests | Immigration and asylum | The Guardian

WWW.THEGUARDIAN.COM

---

Scheme closes in nine days, with many still at risk of losing access to healthcare, jobs and homes

 

 

They probably think they will lose access to healthcare jobs and homes whether they apply or not.

I mean, if they will do it to:

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2021/jun/16/acclaimed-british-cellist-has-passport-cancelled-by-home-office

 

 

as Johnsons says he will suspend the NI protocol ... unless the EU does (and the EU might for another 3 months - I wouldn't)

 

and Frosty  says: how could anyone have realised that the deal I negotiated with a border down the Irish sea would result in a border down the Irish Sea, let alone that the EU would expect us to implement what we negotiated

.. or that the EU would get a bit reactionary if we kept calling them names, abusing their citizens, and breaching our agreements with them

 

 

..

[tobyjugg2]

I see 'Roam like at Home' is Brexiting led by O2

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-o2-data-roaming-charges-b1871484.html

 

and Boris is passing 'laws to legitimise it:

"The government says it has passed legislation to protect holidaymakers, including a £45-a-month limit on any charges for using mobile data abroad before having to opt into further use"

 

New brexit mantra

More of the costs - none of the benefits

[honeybee13]

You couldn't make this up. Gavin Williams and the PM want schoolchildren to sing a special song for One Britain, One Nation Day tomorrow.

 

They seem to have overlooked that Ireland isn't part of GB and that Scottish schools will be on a summer break.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/jun/23/uk-education-secretary-mocked-for-one-britain-one-nation-day-song

 

[tobyjugg2]

Even worse I think:

rather than singapore on thames, its seems like the populists are simply going all out for 'little china'

 

Government plans to introduce new powers to crack down on protests have cleared the first hurdle in the Commons, despite warnings from civil liberties groups that it was an “all-out assault” on the right to demonstrate.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/policing-bill-protests-government-vote-b1818118.html

 

"It creates a new public nuisance law that would make causing “serious annoyance or inconvenience” a crime punishable by up to 10 years’ imprisonment."

With the 'interpretation' of 'annoyance' by Priti Patel

 

"The maximum penalty in common law for public nuisance was life imprisonment and that's being reduced to 10 years. I really frankly do not see what the fuss is about

- Robert Buckland, the populist solicitor general

 

Parliament being the seat of democracy, our work should be not be disrupted”.

populist MP Sir David Amess

 

 

On the other hand:

 

“overreaching, sweeping and draconian provisions on protest”.

“The way this legislation is drafted would make a dictator blush. "

- DUP MP Gavin Robinson

 

""These are local matters for chief constables in consultations with PCCs and I was concerned to see the draft clauses in the bill”.

- Paddy Tipping, the chair of the Association of Police and Crime Commissioners (APCC)

 

Police "“have the laws needed already”

“I don’t like law for law’s sake, especially on freedom of protest.”

Martin Surl, vice-chair of the APCC

 

"Protest was the “essence” of British democracy and allowed the public to literally make their voices heard"

- MP Harriet Harman

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 24, 2021 by tobyjugg2

[honeybee13]

I agree, TJ, it's very worrying. I'm quite surprised that people aren't more exercised by this but maybe they won't notice that Priti Useless or the police can decide on whether a demo is disruptive or not until they find they can't protest over something they care about.

[tobyjugg2]

You'd think such a direct attack on one of the basics foundations of democracy would be plastered all over any legitimate independent news services worth their salt wouldn't you?

 

No doubt some report on some soap or gameshow will take its spot

[tobyjugg2]

No doubt Patel has got bored with just having a hostile environment for EU and windrush folk

 

Patel:

You disagree with me and have the utter gall to say it loud enough for someone to hear - 10 years - lock them up.

[tobyjugg2]

ee also reintroducing roaming charges ..

[honeybee13]

It was bound to happen, wasn't it? UK phone companies only dropped roaming charges because the EU told them to, IIRC.

[tobyjugg2]

https://www.theverge.com/2021/6/24/22548668/ee-uk-carrier-roaming-charges-european-union

Three and O2 have imposed caps on data so far, but EE gonna charge 2 quid a day for you to access your existing services

 

 

Brexit - the farce that just keeps taking

Edited June 24, 2021 by tobyjugg2

[honeybee13]

Chris Patten giving the inaugural lecture for the John and Pat Hume Foundation yesterday.

 

“… the problem at heart is not the sausages you get from Sainsbury’s but the porkies that we all get … from Downing Street”

 

https://sluggerotoole.com/2021/06/24/lord-patten-the-problem-at-heart-is-not-the-sausages-you-get-from-sainsburys-but-the-porkies-that-we-all-get-from-downing-street/

 

[honeybee13]

More on the 'sausage war' from foreignpolicy.com.

 

'Prime Minister Boris Johnson signed the withdrawal agreement and the protocol simply to get elected and get Brexit over the line—with no intention to implement all the detailed provisions that both sides had painstakingly negotiated and agreed. Has it been Johnson’s plan all along to balk at the provisions he didn’t like and create a fuss to pressure the EU into concessions he had failed to get at the negotiating table?'

 

https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/06/23/boris-johnsons-sausage-war-was-deadly-serious/

 

[tobyjugg2]

Pacta sunt servanda

[honeybee13]

Indeed. Unless you had your fingers crossed behind your back when you signed?

[tobyjugg2]

I see Hancock thinks 'if boj can do it so can I

 

Matt Hancock's secret affair with aide Gina Coladangelo is exposed after office snogs while Covid raged on

WWW.THESUN.CO.UK

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HEALTH Secretary Matt Hancock has been having a secret affair with his closest aide, The Sun can reveal today.He cheated on his wife with Gina...

 

"Hancock controversially hired the millionaire lobbyist using taxpayers' money last year"

 

"Ms Coladangelo, who met Mr Hancock when both were attending Oxford University, was a director at lobbying firm Luther Pendragon, which promises clients help to “navigate and influence complex legislation”.

In November it emerged she was given a role as non-executive director at the DHSC, earning at least £15,000 a year and having scrutiny over its running, but there was no public record of the appointment."

(seems quite cheap compared to Bojs' strumpets IMO)

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/matt-hancock-gina-coladangelo-affair-b1872505.html

 

Edited June 25, 2021 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

Not sure if its just around here, but the supermarket fresh veg shelves are rather empty with just mainly what seems left over poor quality stuff on them

Tesco - really bad, and Aldi

Not been to Morrisons as our local one is one of the most mismanaged I've seen since our local Tesco got rid of the old established crony crew after reams of customer complaints a few years ago.

Edited June 26, 2021 by tobyjugg2