Does my car have an inherent fault

[amicipat]

Hi, quick precise:

 

April 2016 Test drive on a 2007 Ford Cabriolet with hood down,

then put roof up and inspected. Decided to purchase.

 

Collected car after several problems with DVLA

 

First attempt to tax - DVLA had no records of Reg. No.

Telephoned DVLA - would look into it

Next day car appeared as untaxed, unsorned since August 2015

Next, DVLA could find no owner for the vehicle.

 

Told garage not happy

- explained they had purchased it in August 2015,

laid it up for winter,

mot'd February 2016, a

nd were able to tax prior to collection

 

Car collected, again hood down.

 

Half way home red engine light permanently on,

returned and left on garage forecourt as they were closed.

Put right next day.

 

 

After driving around for a day, top up, noticed and 'nasty' interior smell.

Again told garage about that and a couple of small faults, told make a list and book in.

 

I have had dealing with this garage previously, and no problems.

They just recently hired a car salesman and were now offering cars for sale.

 

over the next couple of weeks, the smell got consistent and worse,

attempted to book in for works to be done, especially smell,

each time I was told salesman not available and no one else could deal.

 

Eventually, car went in for warranty repairs, including a new set of cherished number plates.

Repairs took 2 full weeks, and on a Friday was told car ready Monday.

 

I contacted DVLA to be told we cannot do this online as there is a problem with this car's Licencing History.

 

 

By this time I was completely worried about this car,

so visited dealer again and told them we were rejecting the car

- he laughed in my face and said you've paid, so hard luck!!

 

Car was left outside my home 2 days later, and guess what, smell worse than ever.

 

Took to a Ford dealership who immediately found the fault,

interior carpets were mouldy (pad underneath). Suspected roof leaf.

Upon going on internet I found this was a well known fault with the vehicle.

 

Dealer says all cabriolets should be laid up August to March!

a fact they did not observe during the last Winter.

 

Will do nothing, surely this is unfit for purpose and an inherent fault?

 

Many thanks in advance for opinions

[ssparks2003]

how did you pay?

[amicipat]

how did you pay?

 

 

Bank Current Account Debit Card - Sent Chargeback form 2 weeks ago, no response so telephoned them this morning - will not even consider until I have written proof the smell existed at the time of purchase - went on to say, I accepted the car at the time of purchase, so nothing they can do anyway!

[Conniff]

Thread cleaned of off topic posts.

[Conniff]

Do you have anything that can shows it was like this at the time of purchase, did you get any paperwork when it was booked in for repairs/rectification ?

 

Will you name the dealer please ?

 

Dealer says all cabriolets should be laid up August to March!

 

That's complete bull and a very stupid thing for any dealer to say. If that was the case the car would never be sold in this country

and would have a warning notice saying only for use in countries where it never rains.

Edited July 23, 2016 by Conniff

[amicipat]

Thanks for information etc.

 

 

UPDATE:

 

 

Under threat of Court Action, the dealer visited my home and confirmed problem - Unfortunately, I was ill and my sister dealt with him, he confirmed he did not mind as he knew her too. Said water on his hand from wet carpet was clean so this had only just happened which my sister took to mean he was saying she had poured water in! She became very upset and a neighbour who had luckily heard every thing told them to go away. they wanted to take the car but my sister refused saying she did not have my permission to do so.

 

 

I wrote and gave them one more chance and got the shock of my life - they took responsibility for it all!! IN WRITING. Indeed, they did have logs of my visits and telephone calls reporting the smell on day 2, and the salesperson has admitted that he knew about the problem from day 2.

 

 

Within their letter they set out what they are going to do to find the fault and repair all damage and went on to say that, they waived the warranty period of 3 months, and would continue to be responsible for all problems with the car because they realise we have been such good customers over many years.

 

 

They still maintain, in the letter, "that all convertibles will develop leaks from the tops (hard and soft), and this is the reason they should be laid up for winter! As you say a very silly comment!

 

 

Because of the above I feel I should not name the dealer yet as they are only a one off company, but with a very good reputation in our area, and are almost always used for insurers estimates and repairs.

 

 

But will keep you advised as to what has actually been done and if they have effected a 'good' repair.

[amicipat]

So here we are Wednesday 27th July 2016. Arrived home to find the car on my drive, keys through door no note. Excitedly opened the driver door and was 'knocked backward" by the overpowering stench!!!.

 

 

After shedding an hours' worth of tears (I am a 70 year old female, in case I did not mention before), attempted to enter car again, same reaction. I have tried to scan (achieved) the letter from the garage, but cannot find a way to post on here so I will re-type below.

 

 

21st July 2016 - Dear Mrs *******

I am sorry that you were too unwell to see me on Wednesday, and I am sorry that our comments caused your sister to become so upset. We can only deal with what we see at the time, and the smell could have easily been coming from the pollen filter which is quite a common problem and we changed it as a precaution. There was never any suggestion that you have been at fault in any way. Yes, the water under the carpet does seem to be clear and relatively fresh and may have started to enter the since the roof has been used since the car was taken off the forecourt in the spring, but it is our responsibility to fix this for you and you are in no way to blame for it! Though the carpet itself feels dry, the passenger side foam is wet and needs to be removed, cleaned and dried out. Wet foam will smell in an enclosed space if left unchecked. This problem will be worse in the hot weather when the car is not being used and is left closed up.

Wiltons are familiar with water leaks and frequently carry out such repairs in the bodyshop. The seats will need to be removed to access the carpet and underlay. It will all be cleaned and dried prior to refitment after repair. With the interior fittings removed water leak testing will easily show where the water is entering the car. I suspect the roof of course, convertible cars do suffer from water ingress, and hard top convertibles need to be adjusted correctly. It could just as easily be door seals, lamp units etc. we will find out of course when we water test the car.

It is known that these cars (and numerous other convertibles) suffered from water leaks from new. They didn't all leak of course, and you car is nine years old and clearly hasn't leaked all that time! The water on my hand that was under the foam was clear and clean, not stale and green as you would expect from an old problem. I suspect that minor adjustments to the very precisely engineered mechanism will resolve it. Water only needs a pin hole to enter a car by capillary action. It will always find that smallest hole and we did have a lot of very heavy rain April May and June. Whatever needs doing will obviously be fixed and then thoroughly tested prior to refitting the carpets and seats.

You have expressed concern about the warranty period during which these repairs can be carried out at no expense to yourself. Please be assured that this repair will be carried out at our expense and we will collect the car from you at midday tomorrow (Friday).

Please offer any advice as to where I go from here. How can I 'prove' a smell, I DID report it within 48 hours of having the car, and, as above, was told it would be corrected. Whilst what they say in their letter might have 'fixed' the problem of water leaking in, but they have NOT fixed the prevailing, ever present smell.

I have e-mailed, Trading Standards, no response, Environmental Health, no response, tried to get an appointment with CAB, none for ages, and then, not sure what they can do as they say, very difficult to prove a smell. Bank are not interested in chargeback unless I can 'prove' a smell at the time of purchase. I purchased this car, instead of going back onto Motability, thinking it would be more cost effective in my remaining years, and now I have no mobility at all. I really am at the end of my tether, being stuck indoor with no mode of transport. I live in a country village and even the one tiny store is beyond my capabilities. This really is the end for me

As requested the garage is Wiltons of Shanklin Ltd. 154-177 Sandown Road Shanklin Isle of Wight.

The car is unusable despite their attempted repair, of the leak, and NOT the removal of the awful smell.

[Hammy1962]

The water leak can be fixed.

 

The seats, other trim and carpet need removing, the carpet needs steam cleaning. The felt needs replacing as it will disintegrate when removed. The car needs 24hrs of de-humidifying and rebuilding with new underfelt.

 

Get repairing garage to get a copy of a ford bulletin 34 of 2007 . It's very complicated and time-consuming.

 

Sadly, the standing water may lead to corrosion etc of the wiring under the carpet and other problems.

 

For the above reason alone I would consider rejecting the vehicle and replace it with a vehicle which has a real roof.

 

It is not just the Ford Focus which has these problems, all Cabriolets are prone. In fact, I heard of a Bentley dealer who warned a convertible (the car not the buyer) buyer of the need to be aware of water ingress and not be alarmed, a £250,000 car!!

 

Trading Standards, utterly useless.

 

Environmental Heath, there is no health risk.

 

CAB, utterly useless and no funds.

 

Sorry it's not good news.

 

H

[heliosuk]

Totally agree with Hammy's sound advice. Other things to look at are the air con system if fitted as these can give similar smell issues and water ingress . However Hammy is ultra knowledgeable about Fords more so than most posters so I'd tend to be guided by him for a technical solution.

 

 

By design though, wherever there is a "flexible roof" involved inherently there will be leakage issues along with fuel consumption ones, something often overlooked. Nice in the sun but in our climate perhaps a no, no.

[amicipat]

Keep trying to post, and getting told post is too short!!

 

 

I have no-one available to help me, I have spent the last of my life savings on this car, and because I cannot 'prove' a smell no one will help me. Hindesight is a wonderful thing, but no use to me now. I don't even care about a leaking look, I just want to get rid of the smell. My sister has been hospitalized twice after driving this car, I am just begging for help on proving the smell, so I guess I am out of options, and this has the probability to cause me to end my life, I just cannot cope anymore.

 

 

Thanks for answering, but there is just no hope now. Congratulations Wiltons and Ford. You will have a suicide on your hands.

[Hammy1962]

Whoa there, keep things in perspective, it is, after all, only a car. Neither Wilton's nor Ford are responsible for how you feel. If you are truly thinking this you need to see a Doctor, long before you see a mechanic.

 

The Forum is here to help, in fact, I have given you a fix. print out or show the post to a representative from Wilton's and with the information in post No. 8 above they can get it fixed.

 

No-one has said you need to 'Prove' as you put it, a smell. The smell is coming from water-logged under-felt and all it needs is replacing and action to stop it happening again.

 

As above, Wilton's have already accepted responsibility and have said they will fix it.

 

It's a good result.

 

See a Doctor, call 111, today.

 

H

[heliosuk]

Couldn't agree more and also get the air con system disinfected and tested. No risk to health, it just smells. It's a known issue across all manufactuers.

[Conniff]

I think some of your claims are a bit over the top. Of course you can prove it, it's probably the easiest problem a car can have to be proven, get them to open the door and stick their head in,

it is smells they cannot deny it.

 

My MGB I bought from new never ever leaked and I had that for years.

[Hammy1962]

Conniff, the dealer is not denying it, they have even agreed to fix it.

 

H

[Conniff]

Conniff, the dealer is not denying it, they have even agreed to fix it.

 

H

 

That is how I read it, but the OP last post says:

 

I have no-one available to help me, I have spent the last of my life savings on this car, and because I cannot 'prove' a smell no one will help me.

[Hammy1962]

Regardless, the now stunning silence, as usual, suggests we will never know.

 

The help was\is there, unfortunately people read\see only what they want to.

 

H

[heliosuk]

So very true.