Driving No Insurance

[unclebulgaria67]

For no insurance the endorsement is obligatory 6 - 8 points (or disqualification), Sch.2, Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988.

 

And i think they also have the rules regarding newly qualified drivers applied to them, which i believe means 6 points and licence is lost. Court decides after how after long they can retake their test to apply for a new licence.

 

The OP wants to go to court and i don't think anything said will change their minds. They will end up with a much larger amount to pay, plus the 6 ponts. But at least they can pay in instalments.

[Raykay]

Revocation of the licence is an administrative matter carried out by the DVLA, nothing to do with the court.

Once revoked, there is no time restriction or control when the test can be re-taken.

[maramar100]

Thank you for replying and helping, everyone. It's not about definitely not wanting to take the offer of fixed penalty its that i can't. I did however think from all the reading i've done that the 6 points, although usual for the offence, is still discretionary by the court. Am i wrong in that? Surely the court have to give the 6 points as a punishment for DVLA to be able to act on that. DVLA don't have the legal power to award 6 points themselves. Thank you for the doctors note idea. I will do that.

Edited October 12, 2015 by maramar100

[maramar100]

Thank you crappoman. That gives me some hope no matter how small. That's how i read it online.

[Raykay]

I did however think from all the reading i've done that the 6 points, although usual for the offence, is still discretionary by the court. Am i wrong in that?

 

Unfortunately the 6 - 8 points is obligatory, it is disqualification that is discretionary.

[maramar100]

I'm a bit confused. Don't you have that the wrong way around. Its been posted before and i've seen it on official sites too:

 

"Whilst revocation is automatic if you reach 6 points, if you can prevent points being endorsed, you can avoid revocation. Consequently, for some offences it may be more practical to obtain a short period of disqualification by way of a punishment instead of penalty points. Although to achieve this, you will have to attend Court, if you can convince the Court to impose a punishment that avoids penalty points, you will avoid revocation.

It is important to understand that whilst the Court has no discretion on whether revocation is imposed should you reach 6 points, it does have discretion on the punishment imposed and therefore, avoiding points will avoid revocation. This will require technical knowledge of the law so you should seek legal advice if you chose to go to Court."

 

So they do have discretion as to award the points but have no discretion to not take away license if you get the 6 points. its the opposite of what you've just said i think

[unclebulgaria67]

I'm a bit confused. Don't you have that the wrong way around. Its been posted before and i've seen it on official sites too:

 

"Whilst revocation is automatic if you reach 6 points, if you can prevent points being endorsed, you can avoid revocation. Consequently, for some offences it may be more practical to obtain a short period of disqualification by way of a punishment instead of penalty points. Although to achieve this, you will have to attend Court, if you can convince the Court to impose a punishment that avoids penalty points, you will avoid revocation.

It is important to understand that whilst the Court has no discretion on whether revocation is imposed should you reach 6 points, it does have discretion on the punishment imposed and therefore, avoiding points will avoid revocation. This will require technical knowledge of the law so you should seek legal advice if you chose to go to Court."

 

So they do have discretion as to award the points but have no discretion to not take away license if you get the 6 points. its the opposite of what you've just said i think

 

If it had been speeding in a 30 or 50 mph zone or other minor offence, them Magistrates have discretion. I.e they could send you on a speed awareness course and you would avoid 3 points.

 

But some offences such as driving without insurance are seen as so serious, that Magistrates have to issue 6 points. If that means that as a newly qualified driver you lose your licence, that is what will happen.

 

Your question is whether 6 points on your licence will mean that you lose your licence and i believe that DVLA will do that. You could phone DVLA to check whether they would revoke your licence, once they had been notified of the 6 points.

[dacouc]

As others have already mentioned, the magistrates are instructed not to avoid giving points where it could affect the revocation of a new drivers licence.

 

It is possible for the magistrates to avoid giving points for some offences with a possible revocation on the horizon, but it's very rare

[honeybee13]

I'm a bit confused. Don't you have that the wrong way around. Its been posted before and i've seen it on official sites too:

 

"Whilst revocation is automatic if you reach 6 points, if you can prevent points being endorsed, you can avoid revocation. Consequently, for some offences it may be more practical to obtain a short period of disqualification by way of a punishment instead of penalty points. Although to achieve this, you will have to attend Court, if you can convince the Court to impose a punishment that avoids penalty points, you will avoid revocation.

It is important to understand that whilst the Court has no discretion on whether revocation is imposed should you reach 6 points, it does have discretion on the punishment imposed and therefore, avoiding points will avoid revocation. This will require technical knowledge of the law so you should seek legal advice if you chose to go to Court."

 

So they do have discretion as to award the points but have no discretion to not take away license if you get the 6 points. its the opposite of what you've just said i think

 

Hello there.

 

Would you mind posting a link to where you found the quote please? We're not meant to quote without attributing it.

 

HB

[dacouc]

Hello there.

 

Would you mind posting a link to where you found the quote please? We're not meant to quote without attributing it.

 

HB

 

Looks like here

 

http://www.drivingban.co.uk/drivingban/drivingbannewdrivers.htm#Is_there_any_way_I_can_avoid_revocation_of_my_driving_licence

[honeybee13]

Thank you, dacouc.

 

HB

[mikeymack2002]

You should now for your sake check the status of your license online. Just to make should your have an entitlement to drive. Linked to earlier. If you have already had your licence revoked it will hold show up here.

 

Driving otherwise in accordance will be seen as a separate offence/s.

 

Again this carries even more points and fines. Please check as often as you can...

[maramar100]

hi mikey. I can't have my license revoked until i have either accepted the fixed penalty notice within 28 days or been to court. I've done neither so have not been convicted of any offence as of yet. I'm not accepting the fixed penalty offer. It was just an offer for me to accept or to not answer and it would be forwarded for a court date. My license hasn't been revoked yet as i have no points at the moment

[maramar100]

Just checked online and i have 0 penalty points and no revocation. I havent been given a fixed penalty, just the offer of one. So as of today i have no points at all as the case hasn't happened yet.

[neil6534]

i am not offering advice but from what i know if you go to court all guns blazing with a solicitor in tow then you are more likely to feel the full force of the law...as others have already said "ignorance" is not a get out clause...if you accept the fine and penalty you maight possibly get the chance to say i can not pay this in full and then look at a payment plan, going to court could as suggested cost you more but i would strongly think against taking a solicitor along

[obiter dictum]

You have been caught bang to rights, there is no defence for no insurance as it is a strict liability offence

 

As well as the usual £300.00 fine you will also have to pay £120.00 victim support surcharge, £150.00 prosecution costs for a Guilty Plea, Conviction in the magistrates court at trial of a summary offence will incur a £520 charge.

 

You will be advised to accept the six points and FPN rather than going to court

[unclebulgaria67]

You have been caught bang to rights, there is no defence for no insurance as it is a strict liability offence

 

As well as the usual £300.00 fine you will also have to pay £120.00 victim support surcharge, £150.00 prosecution costs for a Guilty Plea, Conviction in the magistrates court at trial of a summary offence will incur a £520 charge.

 

You will be advised to accept the six points and FPN rather than going to court

 

They were told this numerous times, but still insist on going to court to have their say.

[maramar100]

I have been told that there is a chance of discretion by the court and to be honest i have nothing to lose. I cannot pay £300 in full. I have asked and there is no way they will accept part payments. If i am to lose my license then at least i can pay bit by bit. There's nothing i can do about that. I will at least get to have my say. I do know for sure after a free 15 min call with a solicitor that courts do have discretion and are not bound to give 6 points. Yes they probably will as that is the set amount but it is not mandatory for a court to give. I won't be turning up at court and have been told i can simply do it via post once i receive any court documents. If i had done the fixed penalty off i would have lost my license immediately without any chance of at least saying what happened and why. I wasn't prepared to do that. It says at the top of every penalty notice they absolutely do not accept instalments. I'm guessing i will hear from the court sometime after the 28 days is up. If i get a 500 fine at least i can pay it in instalments. It will be higher but i will have been able to have my say. I have been told that due to my health problems there could be discretion as not driving will leave me housebound. If i accept the notice i definitely will lose my license. I think its posted in this thread twice somewhere that courts have discretion.

[obiter dictum]

There is no discreation with the court as it is for the last time a strict liability offence

 

There is no defence, you are guilty, That is why the liability is strict

 

The court has no leeway either on the financial penalties imposed as the legislation was introduced by statutory instrument

 

Having no insurance is compulsory 6 or 8 points minimum penalty

 

The only possible exception will be if life or limb depended on you driving while uninsured

 

Who ever is informing you is in error

 

It will not be £300 on conviction in total

 

More like £1000 if you plead not guilty

Edited October 23, 2015 by obiter dictum

[CrappoMan]

Unless things have changed, the court has discretion on imposing a disqualification if you get 12+ points. Is it the same for a new driver with 6 points ?

 

I had 12 points a few years ago, it was only for 5 days, caused by overlapping offences, but it triggered a 12 month disqual. The magistrates asked if I had any grounds for an exceptional hardship argument. I did, and I was allowed to keep my licence, with 12 points on it.

[obiter dictum]

Yes Crappoman, but that is 12 points totting up for disqualification, not the offence itself of driving with no insurance

 

I am unsure but i would expect the same process for a new driver to be even stricter as 6 points is all that is needed for disqualification

[Raykay]

I am unsure but i would expect the same process for a new driver to be even stricter as 6 points is all that is needed for disqualification

 

A new driver who is awarded 6 points within 2 years of passing their test will not be disqualified and it is nothing to do with the court process.

When the DVLA are informed of the 6 points they will write and inform the licence holder when their licence will be revoked, they will then have to re-take their test.

[CrappoMan]

Found this, which is what I was saying.

Is there any way I can avoid revocation of my driving licence ?

 

Yes. Whilst revocation is automatic if you reach 6 points, if you can prevent points being endorsed, you can avoid revocation. Consequently, for some offences it may be more practical to obtain a short period of disqualification by way of a punishment instead of penalty points. Although to achieve this, you will have to attend Court, if you can convince the Court to impose a punishment that avoids penalty points, you will avoid revocation.

 

It is important to understand that whilst the Court has no discretion on whether revocation is imposed should you reach 6 points, it does have discretion on the punishment imposed and therefore, avoiding points will avoid revocation. This will require technical knowledge of the law so you should seek legal advice if you chose to go to Court.

[dacouc]

Found this, which is what I was saying.

 

From a website that makes money by providing motoring lawyers.

 

It's always worth remembering that your lawyer will still get paid whether you lose a case or win a case.

 

Here is the guidance Magistrates have received about issuing a ban instead of points to avoid revocation of the licence.

 

"Drivers who incur six points or more during the two-year probationary period after passing the driving test will have their licence revoked automatically by the Secretary of State; they will be able to drive only after application for a provisional licence pending the passing of a further test (Road Traffic (New Drivers) Act 1995). An offender liable for an endorsement which will cause the licence to be revoked under the new drivers’ provisions may ask the court to disqualify rather than impose points. This will avoid the requirement to take a further test. Generally, this would be inappropriate since it would circumvent the clear intention of Parliament."

 

https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/explanatory-material/item/road-traffic-offences-disqualification/8-new-drivers/

 

It's not unheard of for magistrates to go against this advice and not apply points but it is very rare as they've been instructed that it's not appropriate.

[neil6534]

although this is slightly off track....i was arrested for driving under the influence years ago... i did not crash or anything like that i was just waved down by the police and they found me very coherent and co-operative.,...anyway.i went to court and used one of the court solicitors to speak on my behalf.....i had the book thrown at me, mainly because i failed to speak for myself and used a higher authority - when you look at cases where DUI drivers have crashed and caused damaged whilst not having insurance and you see them get off with lesser charges than me then you really do need to ask yourself is taking a solicitor to court the best option?