Greece & ISIS - next few weeks looking dodgy

[Guest]

if the new proposals dont work out, how about chipping in to the online greek bailout fund eg http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-07-01/british-shoe-seller-tries-crowdfunding-greek-bailout/6585454

[unclebulgaria67]

Indeed Capitalism as we know it is undergoing some difficult times,

 

All this printed and digital money that the elite hold as others debts is about to disappear as more and more default. The poor will suffer first

but then the elite will too

 

Im just glad we did nto join the single currency and I too shall be buying some gold to hold onto

 

The current version of capitalism has failed for a number of reasons.

 

1) over £30 trillion held in tax havens

2) business and wealthy offshoring their income to cheaper tax authorities

3) wealth too concentrated

4) asset values based on previous irresponsible lending by banks, not on current incomes

5) greed and lack of government actions to try to control some of it.

6) world resources are gradually diminishing, value increases as less supply, meaning fewer can afford.

 

This is why I am left of centre politically and I think the country made a massive mistake at the election. I am in favour of market interventions, taxing wealth and trying to look after the many, not the few. If we don't start to tackle some of the issues, we will end up with most people never owning their own homes and living on incomes that are only just adequate to live on. The UK is a wealthy country and should have the capability to build affordable housing for people to buy, so they have the option, rather than rent. UK government can currently borrow at an historic low, but I see no government response in equipping the country with the infrastructure it needs.

[determindator]

Where would Greece be if it had not joined the EU?

[citizenB]

http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/europpblog/2014/11/25/the-argument-that-greece-was-granted-eec-accession-prematurely-ignores-the-historical-context-in-which-the-decision-was-made/

 

If you read the article linked above, it was a mistake to have let them into the EEC in the first place.

[citizenB]

http://www.historytoday.com/matthew-lynn/greek-economics-drachmas-debt-and-Dionysius

 

 

And the Greeks? Like the rest of the financial and political elite in southern Europe, they believed the euro would be a catalyst for modernisation. Replacing the drachma with a new currency would, they argued, be a transformative act which, in a single step, would turn Greece into a vibrant, free-market economy. But in that respect, as in so many others, the euro was simply not up to the job. Dionysius couldn’t make Syracuse richer by re-stamping the coins. And the European Central Bank couldn’t change the course of a few hundred years of Greek history by enforcing a one size fits all monetary policy. That simple truth is now catching up with all of them. -

 

The poor economic record of Greece goes back a very long way, says Matthew Lynn.

 

- See more at: http://www.historytoday.com/matthew-lynn/greek-economics-drachmas-debt-and-dionysius#sthash.PF2m2c9K.dpuf

[citizenB]

http://www.cfr.org/eu/eurozone-crisis/p22055

[determindator]

Yes CB it never qualified. We've not yet learnt why it was allowed. I believe they would have had troubles without joining the EU.

[citizenB]

So, despite discovering that Greece had in effect been, telling fibs about it's financial position, Europe continued to chuck money at it ?

 

 

How did Greece get to this point?

 

 

Greece became the epicentre of Europe’s debt crisis after Wall Street imploded in 2008. With global financial markets still reeling, Greece announced in October 2009 that it had been understating its deficit figures for years raising alarms about the soundness of Greek finances.

 

Suddenly, Greece was shut out from borrowing in the financial markets. By the spring of 2010, it was veering toward bankruptcy, which threatened to set off a new financial crisis.

 

 

To avert calamity, the so-called troika — the International Monetary Fund, the European Central Bank and the European Commission — issued the first of two international bailouts for Greece, which would eventually total more than 240 billion euros, or about $264 billion at today’s exchange rates.

 

The bailouts came with conditions. Lenders imposed harsh austerity terms, requiring deep budget cuts and steep tax increases. They also required Greece to overhaul its economy by streamlining the government, ending tax evasion and making Greece an easier place to do business.

 

 

 

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/business/international/greece-debt-crisis-euro.html?_r=0

[citizenB]

I am guessing that Greece wont be asked to take any of the migrants that are currently flooding into Europe !

[san_d]

Where would Greece be if it had not joined the EU?

South of Macedonia, East of Italy and West of Turkey probably.

[Guest]

South of Macedonia, East of Italy and West of Turkey probably.

 

moving north by north east, to russia

[Guest]

some info

http://www.theguardian.com/business/economics-blog/2015/jun/29/greek-bailout-a-payday-loan-with-serious-conditions-attached

[determindator]

There's so much inbalance in the world with the haves and have nots. That's the fundamental problem for governments to solve. It causes war and backlash. We all know the answer, help countries to rebuild their economies, there needs to be much more cohesion and basically helping each other in this big world of ours. It was uplifting to hear about the crowdfunding being organised for Greece.

It's a step towards bringing people together and working to find more solutions.

[Conniff]

So Greece defaults on the IMF loan, because the EU would not assist them further. I thought the EU was a club where they worked together for the good of all countries. Surely more damage by letting them default. Greece needs a long term plan, as they cannot afford the current level of repayments.

 

If it's such a happy club, why are they being charged such massive amounts of interest, Wonga has nothing on the IMF. Europe is not helping Greece one little bit.

 

Where would Greece be if it had not joined the EU?

 

Probably sitting on their beaches enjoying themselves.

[determindator]

If it's such a happy club, why are they being charged such massive amounts of interest, Wonga has nothing on the IMF. Europe is not helping Greece one little bit.

 

 

 

Probably sitting on their beaches enjoying themselves.

 

Exactly, their joining the EU did nothing for the people or their economic standing. The Greek Government would have had to sort their problems themselves.

[unclebulgaria67]

Exactly, their joining the EU did nothing for the people or their economic standing. The Greek Government would have had to sort their problems themselves.

 

But Greece has borrowed about 330 billion Euros if my memory serves me correct. I don't think they would have had this money if they were not part of the EU and did not have the Euro.

 

It is a question of whether they have been lent too much money or the repayments terms are impossible. The IMF has already said that Greece needs longer to pay, so they have a chance.

 

My instinct tells me that the current version of capitalism is broken and needs re-engineering. Since the 1980's far too much money was created and far too much risk was being taken. The investment banks have been far too clever in trying to make money and some of what they have done has been found to be illegal e.g market fixing.

 

Until all the world powers get together to address the worlds financial system, then some countries are going to have difficulty. Some of the very wealthy people in countries like Greece moved their money to tax havens a long time ago. They don't live in Greece. They live in London or Surrey or Monaco.

[Conniff]

But Greece has borrowed about 330 billion Euros if my memory serves me correct. I don't think they would have had this money if they were not part of the EU and did not have the Euro.

 

And look at the massive amounts of interest added on and the payments, they can barely keep up with servicing the interest let alone the debt while Germany sits back and gloats revelling in the power it holds over another country.

[unclebulgaria67]

And look at the massive amounts of interest added on and the payments, they can barely keep up with servicing the interest let alone the debt while Germany sits back and gloats revelling in the power it holds over another country.

 

Yes 3.6% interest, when apparently it would only be 0.9% to cover their costs of lending the money.

[Consumer dude]

What is the referendum actually about ?

[citizenB]

What is the referendum actually about ?

 

 

Whether the Greek people are prepared to accept the bail out terms that have been put on the table by Europe and the IMF. However, from what I understand, the deadline for accepting that deal has long since passed !

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11713603/Just-what-exactly-are-the-Greeks-voting-on-this-weekend.html

[Consumer dude]

Whether the Greek people are prepared to accept the bail out terms that have been put on the table by Europe and the IMF. However, from what I understand, the deadline for accepting that deal has long since passed !

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11713603/Just-what-exactly-are-the-Greeks-voting-on-this-weekend.html

 

If they vote yes, they get more money ? and then they default again ? Then what ?

[Conniff]

What is the referendum actually about ?

 

Being able to blame the public if it all goes wrong - 'it wasn't my fault, that's what you voted for'.

[Consumer dude]

Why don't Greece SAR their creditors. Only cost a tenner you know..

[citizenB]

If they vote yes, they get more money ? and then they default again ? Then what ?

 

It seems to be a way of life of the Greek government.. it would appear their economy wasn't as sound as required by the EU when first joining and ever since have been borrowing money to pay off previous debts without ever having a forward plan - when the global economy went belly up they were in a very vulnerable position. When they got caught out at the last loan and were told they needed to sort themselves out.. they threw a wobbly and voted in this guy who thinks he can blackmail Europe in to writing off their debts so they can come off the austerity programme that the rest of us have been dealing with these last 8 years or so ?

[Guest]

Why don't Greece SAR their creditors. Only cost a tenner you know..

 

and then do them for irresponsible lending, get the debt wiped