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    • I'm not sure on the best option here, I'm happy to go with Tomlin, however I can afford to pay this one in full if needed and wonder whether I should be trying to get a reduced amount, perhaps in the court hallway before going in? that would require submitting a WS of some sort. What I 'like' (strong word) about TO in this instance, is that it allows me to keep my savings to hand for further accounts needing attention in the near future and I would hope gives me some control over the pcm amount.. I've read a number of TO threads now (fell to sleep at the keyboard last night ) but have a few questions please: - Do I specify the payment arrangement in a TO or the claimant? I'm thinking 20% lump upfront plus 96 months of circa 60 squid. - Who decides repayment amounts if CCJ is granted? if the judge, then do I submit I&E at any point? Given the amount of total debt across all my claims, I need to ensure anything I commit to is future proofed. I wouldn't want all my disposable income sent to this one debt, only to have another one in a month or two.
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    • Few tweaks as the run order was completely messed up and the main point of your defence (reconstituted agreement) pushed to the bottom of the statement.   I, XXXXXX, being the Defendant in this case will state as follows; I make this Witness Statement in support of my defence in this claim and further to my set aside application dated 1 November 2022. 1.The claimants witness statement confirms that it mostly relies on hearsay evidence as confirmed by the drafts in person in the opening paragraph. It is my understanding they must serve notice to any hearsay evidence pursuant to CPR 33.2(1)(B) (notice of intention to rely on hearsay evidence) and Section 2 (1) (A) of the Civil Evidence Act. 2.  I understand that the claimant is an Assignee, a buyer of defunct or bad debts, which are bought on mass portfolios at a much reduced cost to the amount claimed and which the original creditors have already wrote off as a capital loss and claimed against taxable income as confirmed in the claimants witness statement exhibit by way of the Deed of Assignment. 3. As an assignee or creditor as defined in section 189 of the CCA this applies to this new requirement on assignment of rights.  This means that when an assignee purchases debts (or otherwise acquires rights under a credit agreement) it also acquires certain obligations to the borrower including the duty to comply with CCA requirements (such as the rules on statements and notices and other post-contractual information).  The assignee becomes the creditor under the agreement. This ensures that essential consumer protections under the CCA cannot be circumvented by assigning the debt to a third party. 4.  I became aware of original Judgement following a routine credit check on or around 14th September 2020. 5. The alleged letter of claim dated 7 January 2020 was served to a previous address which I moved out of in 2018, no effort was made to ascertain my correct address.  I have attached a copy of my tenancy agreement which is marked ‘Appendix 1’ and shows I was residing at a difference address as of 11 December 2018 and was therefore not at the service address at the time the proceedings were served.  I have also attached an email from my solicitors to the Claimants solicitors dated 14 July 2022 which was sent to them requesting that they disclose the trace of evidence they utilised prior to issuing the proceedings against me.  This is marked ‘Appendix 2’. The claimants solicitors did not provide me with these documents. 6. Under The Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims 2017 a Debt Buyer must undertake all reasonable enquiries to ensure the correct address of a debtor, this can be as simple as a credit file search. The Claimant failed to carry out such basic checks. Subsequently all letters prior to and including ,The Pre action Protocol letter of claim dated 7 January 2020 and the claim form dated 14th February 2020 were all served to a previous address which I moved out of in 2018. 7. Upon the discovery of the Judgement debt, I made immediate contact with the Court and the Claimant Solicitors, putting them on notice that I was making investigations in relation to the Judgement debt as it was not familiar to me.  I asked them to provide me with a copy of the original loan agreement but this was not provided to me.   The correspondence to the Claimant Solicitor's is attached and marked ‘Appendix 3’ 8. On (insert date) I successfully made application to set a side the judgment. The claim proceeded to allocation, 9. The claimant failed to comply with the additional directions ordered by District Judge Davis on the 2 February 2024 'The Claim shall be automatically struck out at 4pm on 3 April 2024 unless the Claimant delivers to the Court and to the Defendant the following documents.' None of these documents were received by the court nor the defendant by that date. (insert date you did receive the documents) I then sent a Data Subject Access Request to Barclays but no agreement was provided. Details the timeline of communication between myself and Barclays are attached and marked ‘Appendix 4’and the copies of correspondence between myself and Barclays are attached and marked ‘Appendix 5’. Remove irrelevant 10.The claimant relies upon and has exhibited a reconstituted version of the alleged agreement. It is again denied that I have ever entered into an agreement with Barclaycard on or around 2000.  It is admitted that I did hold other credit agreements with other creditors and as such should this be a debt that was assigned to Barclaycard from another brand therefore the reconstituted agreement disclosed is invalid being pre April 2007 and not legally enforceable pursuant to HHJ Judge Waksman in Carey v HSBC 2009 EWHC3417.  Details of this are attached and marked ‘Appendix 6’. The original credit agreement must be provided along with any reconstituted version on a modified credit agreement and must contain the names and address of debtor and creditor, agreement number and cancelation clause. 11. Therefore the claimant is put to strict proof to disclose a true executed legible agreement on which its claim relies upon and not mislead the court. 12. It is denied I have ever received a default Notice pursuant to sec 87(1) CCA1974.The claimant is put to strict proof to evidence from the original creditors internal document software the trigger of said notice.  13.   As per CPR 1.4(2)(a) the court encourages parties to cooperate with each other in the conduct of proceedings in order to try and save time and costs for the parties and to also save the time and resources of the court however, despite vast attempts at mediation the claimants have been most unreasonable and have remained unwilling to mediate. 14. Until such time the claimant can comply and disclose a true executed copy of the original assigned agreement they refer to within the particulars of this claim they are not entitled while the default continues, to enforce the agreement pursuant to section 78.6 (a) of the Credit Consumer Act 1974. I believe that the facts stated in this Witness Statement are true.  I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth. Signed                 ………………………………………………….. Name                  XXXX Date                     30 April 2024   Run 3 copies Court /Claimants Sol/File
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claimform for being a guarantor on a rent agreement - help


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Hi, hoping to just clarify a couple of things before completing and sending this back to the court (relates to my other thread about guarantor agreement).

 

Does a lay representative need to be listed under the witnesses box in Section D or do they just tag along on the day?

 

Also how should the papers be served on the other party to show to the court this has been done as they asked? Was thinking post office certificate of postage would look better than service by hand to their premises, or will that suffice?

 

Many thanks

 

No, only people giving evidence who will be submitting a Witness Statement should be named as a witness.

 

It's also not necessary to send proof of postage. Just stick it in the post at least two working days before it's due.

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Very interested in this thread as I am in pre litigation stages arguing over a similar contract with what I think are unfair terms and charges.

Not going to hijack the thread as I already have my own, just subscribing with interest.

Good Luck

BF

Of course I will pay you everything you say I owe with no proof.

Oooh Look....Flying Pigs

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Very interested in this thread as I am in pre litigation stages arguing over a similar contract with what I think are unfair terms and charges.

Not going to hijack the thread as I already have my own, just subscribing with interest.

Good Luck

BF

 

Thanks, I've followed your thread too but noticed you hadn't posted for a few days on it - if you wanted to discuss feel free to PM me

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi all, a further update - heard nothing relating to the court action since the AQ should have been sent by them to us - have emailed the court this week asking if it has been filed with them but so far no response. They have in the meantime obtained a CCJ against the tenant for the initial claimed amount, although that has long since been paid but new arrears have accrued.

 

This week the agent have sent through a new demand for another £1100 - £300 was paid by the tenant while the letter was in the post, and it's marked final demand and warns of potential court action again. Minded to email them and point out as a defence has been filed with the court already explaining why we do not accept we should be liable for this and therefore why are they trying exactly the same action again... Twice in two months and they know arrears will be ongoing until they evict - surely the court will frown upon repeated claims especially if they don't follow through? We were prepapred for a day in court if need be, yet they seem to be going back to square one...

 

Any advice on how to respond to that is welcome.

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I personally would ignore the recent demands, or just a short response stating that court proceedings are ongoing and a defence has been filed.

 

The court will not be particularly interested in the fact that the other side is sending more demands - seems like a waste of paper to me. The court will be interested in whether or not you are liable to pay the money which has been claimed under the guarantee.

 

As previously mentioned, it wouldn't be a bad idea to offer to settle this claim for some of the outstanding rent. It seems to me that you will be able to contest the charges but I'm not sure you could contest the rent, as at the end of the day you did sign a guarantee.

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Agree with steampower, I was a guarantor (never again) and found myself facing the small claims court because the tenant didn't pay the rent. I paid the rent arrears and refused to pay any costs, which the letting agent just seemed to make up as they went along and after paying the rent arrears the small claim was dropped. Not saying they will drop yours but since you will be liable for the rent, its best to remove this from the equation so the sole focus of the claim becomes their overcharging fees.

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Thanks both for your input. Today received a copy of an order sent to the claimant to file the directions questionnaire by x date this month or their claim will be struck out. The agent has emailed this week but only to ask the tenant to get in touch, no further demand or reference to the letter in the post. I don't think they will follow through with the initial claim but think they might issue a new claim as when the rent renews this month the tenant will immediately be a month in arrears again. The tenant won't willingly move out until they find somewhere (looking for a smaller property that will be more affordable) that will take a HB paid deposit, rent paid by HB, and accept them with a CCJ, which to me seems nigh on impossible if not seriously unlikely but otherwise they will be homeless with a teenager... Lee6370 even without knowing the ins and outs of what happened to you I can imagine why you say never again

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That's a really tough situation. Have they approached their council's housing officer? They can sometimes help.

 

To be honest I would just keep quiet about the directions questionnaire. The agent doesn't sound very competent and I would not be surprised if the claim gets stuck out. If they true to issue another claim after the first one has been struck out, you can try to defend the new claim by saying that it is an abuse of process.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

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  • 3 weeks later...
That's a really tough situation. Have they approached their council's housing officer? They can sometimes help.

 

To be honest I would just keep quiet about the directions questionnaire. The agent doesn't sound very competent and I would not be surprised if the claim gets stuck out. If they true to issue another claim after the first one has been struck out, you can try to defend the new claim by saying that it is an abuse of process.

 

Sorry for the delayed response... Council have not been able to help beyond saying find a rental we'll pay your deposit, but no agent would take her on now I don't think...

 

 

An update on the court proceeding, the agent sent back the DQ at the very last possible date before it would have been struck out without sending a copy to us, so now it's been recommended mediation is attempted, but I have a further question....

 

Seperate claims were issued against tenant and guarantor at the same time (not named as co-defendants but for the same rental debt), a judgement for this amount was given against the tenant and they are paying in court agreed installments after a hearing however claim against guarantor is still dragging on, but with a judgement secured for this debt albeit against the tenant should they even still be proceeding for the same amount against guarantor now? Any advice would be welcome as I think we are in rather an unusual situation here now...

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A judgement for this amount was given against the tenant and they are paying in court agreed installments after a hearing however claim against guarantor is still dragging on, but with a judgement secured for this debt albeit against the tenant should they even still be proceeding for the same amount against guarantor now?

 

Yes ....because the judgment is not satisfied and the Liability remains with the Guarantor...but take a read of the following....9.28

 

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=XyoC3ncWwtEC&pg=PA244&lpg=PA244&dq=suing+two+people+for+the+same+debt&source=bl&ots=Iyra5k6xfN&sig=u89X_dhe8lqzF4Je7GjRkgb8QZ8&hl=en&sa=X&ei=s89PVZSXE8WOsAGGwoDYCw&ved=0CF4Q6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=suing%20two%20people%20for%20the%20same%20debt&f=false

 

Regards

 

Andy

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A judgement for this amount was given against the tenant and they are paying in court agreed installments after a hearing however claim against guarantor is still dragging on, but with a judgement secured for this debt albeit against the tenant should they even still be proceeding for the same amount against guarantor now?

 

Yes ....because the judgment is not satisfied and the Liability remains with the Guarantor...but take a read of the following....9.28

 

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=XyoC3ncWwtEC&pg=PA244&lpg=PA244&dq=suing+two+people+for+the+same+debt&source=bl&ots=Iyra5k6xfN&sig=u89X_dhe8lqzF4Je7GjRkgb8QZ8&hl=en&sa=X&ei=s89PVZSXE8WOsAGGwoDYCw&ved=0CF4Q6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=suing%20two%20people%20for%20the%20same%20debt&f=false

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

Thanks Andyorch, I will read through this later as it's rather early for me to take in and I assume I'll need the contracts to refer to, appreciate the link.

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  • 1 month later...

Hi all, just wanted to get opinions please on what is likely to have happened with the claim - had a letter through nearly 6 weeks ago saying claim had been referred to local county court for a judge to decide what track etc - it said to allow 5 days for the file to be received by the court. Since then we have not heard a single thing from the court - is this timescale normal does anyone know?

 

The agent/LL said last month they were going to commence proceedings to seek possession of the property, however no notice was ever served on the T and now they are back to chasing the rent arrears - back to square one it seems as we thought there would be a resolution one way or another (court decision or eviction of the T) and now neither seems to be in the pipeline...

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