Erudio claimform - old SLC loans - stayed - now N244 **WON SJ refused**

[AndyOrch]

But you are still not sure if this is a full hearing or just to hear their application.....don't count your chickens just yet.

[patterns]

indeed thanks Andy

 

But right now the court is closed and ive heard nothing? What does this mean?

 

The telephone line literally says 'we cannot answer your call, please try later'

 

Shall i drive down there?

[patterns]

Okay,

I finally managed to get hold of the court. They said they had not received my email with my details. I then showed proof by forwarding my email again, and they said that they would have to wait for the file to come back to the desk.

 

Then depending on the outcome, they would forward the judge my email. Essentially they thought that I hadn’t bothered sending anything in which is why I was not called.

 

I am annoyed but more concerned about what are the possible and probable outcomes of this. They mentioned it may have been dismissed or adjourned, but of course anything could’ve happened. However they did confirm it was an application hearing.

 

Any help guys would be great as I am a little frustrated.

[patterns]

Spoke to the court today

 

There has been an order imposed. There will be a hearing for the claimant for summary judgement. Im trying to understand what this means. I was advised once i receive the letter i can make an application to set aside.

 

Guess i will post back here once i have the court order.

[AndyOrch]

Its all in their N244 application notice which you previously uploaded (Post #188)...they applied to lift the stay and requested summary judgment....now your waiting for that hearing.

 

 

 

.

[patterns]

Ok thanks Andy,

 

its just the way the lady read the order to me sounded like their was no hearing for me to attend, and that it was just a hearing for costs to be awarded. But what you say makes more sense and what i presumed would happen.

 

She mentioned something the letter said about the defendants defence being submitted late, which is was not, i have the dates on MCOL, thats what threw me off. Maybe she read it wrong or i heard it wrong, or just not clear about the wordings. Trying to learn but its alot. After what you say, i think i get it now.

 

I guess i will wait for the letter and ill post up.

 

Apologies for posting early/alot, just frustrated this has happened and im left in the dark.

[AndyOrch]

No problem .....it has been a complicated process to the norm...what you really wanted to know and have confirmed is what happened at the last hearing. ?

[patterns]

Yes Andy, thank you

 

Im awaiting hearing date, which im happy with. I was worried i had lost with no opportunity to defend

 

Thank you again

[AndyOrch]

So we are to assume they got the stay lifted....and now we move to second part of their application Summary Judgment....assuming that wasn't allowed ?

 

Once you have a hearing date again you must submit a statement in response with objection...this must be filed and served not less than 7 days.

[patterns]

She mentioned the stay was lifted, and order of summary judgement? I did ask are we going to the hearing, and she said it is an order for summary judgement for costs for the claimant. I was trying to understand what she was saying but it was very rushed and repetitive. This was the court front desk i believe, so im not sure how versed they are in these matters. But she also mentioned 'dismissed', something to do with the defendant. She said i could make an application to set aside, but this was in response to me stating i should have been on that call which was the courts error.

Sorry it really confused me, but just seems a contradiction.

 

Unless its possible the order would just award their claim and they would have a hearing without me to determine final amounts (which is how she tried to interpret, but seems odd), then yes im presuming we now move to the second stage, i submit my response again in objection... and then hopefully a hearing is set, right? But i think last time i did that prior to the appliucation hearing. Before the actual hearing i simply submitted my Pdf bundle/witness statement.

Otherwise the judge would have just awarded them the claim, but is this possible? They have tried to argue in their application it should not go to a trial/hearing.

 

It is indeed quite complicated. i've been trying to understand terminologies/procedures. I've gone back through all the court letters:

History:

- claim

- defence

- stayed

- Then the first time they made the n244, within the application i had 7 days to submit a response. We then had a hearing application, the judge decided on the call we would move to hearing. I submitted my bundle and we had the hearing. Hearing was set aside.

 

- This time, the n244 didn't have any notice of submitting anything within 7 days, i think i posted here and it was nto required this time. Application acknowledged, application hearing date set for last week, took place without me (not my fault), and now we are here.

 

Looking over their applications, they have requested;

- the set aside be lifted

- the summary judgement be relisted

 

The same as before, so my understanding is the judge could/would have at the worst granted them this, and there will be a new hearing? But a summary judgement definition seems to mean 'there are no other facts to be tried'.

 

They said the letter will be posted today so fingers crossed it comes sooner rather than later!

[AndyOrch]

That does not sound very promising at all...alarm bells ringing..

 

" it is an order for summary judgement for costs for the claimant."

"But she also mentioned 'dismissed', something to do with the defendant. "

"She said i could make an application to set aside,"

 

Normally the lifting of the stay and summary judgment are dealt with at one hearing I wouldn't be surprised if they have their SJ but then again you was not called on the hearing so an error somewhere by the court which would validate a set a side.

 

.

[patterns]

Yes agree it doesnt sound good, all be it my interpretation wasnt clear.

 

Hoping the letter turns up sooner rather than later for clarification. I would hope i have an opportunity to set aside.

 

Thanks again Andy

[patterns]

Letter has arrived

 

Ok so after reading, my assumption this is somewhat better news? It seems from the wording 'lift for the hearing of the claimants application for summary judgement .... on a date to be advise'

 

This would mean we are returing back to the stage of hearing previously set aside, which would mean i will have an opportunity to submit my WS etc again and defend myself, correct? Or is this different?

 

 

 

 

2021-11-xx general form of judgement or order.pdf

[AndyOrch]

Yes good news they don't have their SJ yet.

[patterns]

ah awesome!

 

Thanks for replying, ill sit tight and wait for the date

[patterns]

Update:

Court letter received. its a face to face hearing now. It hasnt mentioned any directions/guidelines, or submission of supporting evidence/bundle/WS etc?

it did say in the previous letter 'and upon the stay being automatically imposed by operation of CPR 15.11 the defence was not served until 20 july 2020'

- Does this mean i do not have an opportunity to defend or im reading too much into this now?

I've never been in a court hearing, only remote hearings so not sure how the procedure is.

I'm sure in one of the first letters to me, it did have guidelines for face-to-face hearings, with notes stating to send any information you rely on court to each party within 14 days of the hearing. However this hearing is in about 14 days from now already.

 

Something else i just noticed is the date of my defence is completely wrong.

My original claim defence was submitted via MCOL and acknowledged in June 2019.

My defence to the the first application to lift stay was in November 2020 as they made their application 12th Nov 2020.

So im not sure what this judge is referring to here.

Notice of hearing dec 2021.pdf

[dx100uk]

well you certainly do not enter into any little 'chats' with the fleecers before you go in!!

 

you've chopped off the number of the form at the bottom?

 

can you please also stop hiding dates times and figures   like£'s.

[patterns]

No problem, i thought it would help keep things anonymous

 

Do you need the number at the bottom? i can upload again

[AndyOrch]

Quote

the defence was not served until 20 july 2020'

- Does this mean i do not have an opportunity to defend or im reading too much into this now?

 

They are referring to the claimants response to your defence...also known as a defence...hence the stay was placed on the claim

[patterns]

Spoke to the court today regarding submission of defence/WS etc.

They said to send in as quick as possible.

The hearing is on the 13th, even if i post tomorrow it will not be received by them and the claimant within the usual 14 days, it will be 13 days.

Is this ok? i dont really have a choice, i only got the letter yesterday.

A few questions please:

 - should i send to the claimant and the claimant solicitors or just the solicitors? The PDF bundle previously was sent from their solicitors and i sent to their solicitors.

1 - i am going to update the pack with the recent documentation from the hearing application, court letters. Is there anything else to add?

2 - can i add the below articles to my WS/exhibits?

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2016/apr/08/student-loans-firm-erudio-leaves-graduates-fuming-over-latest-error

- https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/2016/04/student-loan-deferment-forms-missing-in-latest-erudio-blunder/

Any other help would be appreciated as im going to try get this posted in the morning special delivery, hoping i can catch the Saturday post.

Thanks again

[dx100uk]

you can surely use email? and where has 14 days come from? it's typically 7? or even 2 days.

 

 

 

[patterns]

Thanks for the reply DX100uk

 

The lady said hard copy asap. I recall a previous letter with guidelines stating 14 days. i'll certainly submit an email version also as courtesy.

 

If its 7 or 2 days, then fantastic

 

but i also found this

'Accordingly, in the absence of a specific direction, witness evidence should be filed with the court at least 14 days before the final hearing date. statements. As per CPR 32.4(2), the court will order a party to serve witness statements on the other parties.'

 

https://www.lexisnexis.co.uk/legal/guidance/in-relation-to-witness-evidence-under-the-civil-procedure-rules-what-are-the-time-limits-for-filing-a

 

i have however found this:

1 Oct 2020 — 17.1 The witness statement should be headed with the title of the ... that the claimant must file the trial bundle not more than 7 days and ...

 

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part32/pd_part32#witness

 

but i cannot find that tect in the actual web page, i have found though:

AGREED BUNDLES FOR HEARINGS

27.4 Rule 39.5 provides that the claimant must file the trial bundle not more than 7 days and not less than 3 days before the start of the trial.

 

so slightly confusing

 

Edited November 27, 2021 by patterns

[AndyOrch]

Summary judgment hearings are 7 days...see CPR 24.

 

PART 24 - SUMMARY JUDGMENT - Civil Procedure Rules

WWW.JUSTICE.GOV.UK

 

24.5

(1) If the respondent to an application for summary judgment wishes to rely on written evidence at the hearing, he must –

(a) file the written evidence; and

(b) serve copies on every other party to the application,

at least 7 days before the summary judgment hearing.

[patterns]

Thanks Andy,

 

It will be posted special tomorrow. I was waiting on something from the other side, however today i received a letter from Drydens simply informing me of the hearing date and that 'our position remains unchanged'

 

I have simply updated the previous Bundle to reflect new letters received etc.

[AndyOrch]

If you could post a copy of your statement in response here for easy reference.

 

Andy