Cabot/Restons - ClaimForm LLoyds Credit Card 'debt'

[Tonster]

Issue Date on claim form 14th Jan,

 

Particulars of Claim

 

1.The claimant claims payment of the overdue balance due from the Defendant under a contract between the Defendant and Lloyds Bank dated on or about the Jan ** 2002

 

2.and assigned to the Claimant on Jun ** 2014 in the sum of £11,***.**

 

Particulars a/c no **************

 

Particulars a/c no **************

 

What is the value of the claim? £11K+

Is the claim for a current or credit/loan account or mobile phone account? Credit card

 

When did you enter into the original agreement before or after 2007? 2002

 

Has the claim been issued by the original creditor

or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. Debt purchaser (Cabot)

Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? Yes

 

Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? Yes

Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Default sums” – at least once a year ? Yes

Why did you cease payments? Financial difficulties and increasing APR by the OC

What was the date of your last payment? Feb 2012

Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved?

Yes, lack of prescribed terms in the signature document

 

Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor

and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? Yes

 

I realise that as this is over £10K it may not be small claims track so any advice appreciated.

 

 

AoS done today, intending to defend all.

[citizenB]

Do you know if there are significant charges on the account that could be reclaimed, or Payment Protection Insurance ?

 

Can you please let us know the date of issue of the claim - top right hand corner of the form - then we can work out your timeline.

 

You will need to send a CPR 31.14 request.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?387484-LEGAL-CPR-31.14-Request-Request-for-information-when-a-Claim-has-been-issued.

 

From the PoC details, it looks like you can request copies of..

 

1: The agreement along with terms and conditions

2: Statement of account showing how the balance being claimed has accrued.

3: Notice of Assignment.

 

Although if you have copies of these and have a current statement showing how the balance has accrued it would be a pointless exercise.

 

If you don't have a copy of the agreement. Then separate from the CPR request - which goes to the solicitor named on the claim form, you should send a CCA request to the Claimant, enclosing £1.00 for the statutory fee. There is no fee for the CPR.

[Tonster]

Hi

 

 

Please see attached copy of the agreement that I got from the OC some years back. But whether Cabot/Restons have a copy is another matter I guess so I should still CPR them for the agreement?

 

 

Tonster

[citizenB]

Ouch, is that a poor scan or is the copy really that bad ?

 

Can you please let me know the issue date of the claim form ?

[Tonster]

Hi

 

 

Issue Date on claim form is 14th Jan, AoS done today, intending to defend all.

 

 

I've covered up the personal details (with post it's before scanning) which I think makes the form look worse, it's fairly legible (especially at 150% in pdf!!)

 

 

Cheers

 

 

Tonster

[citizenB]

Ah right, I thought that might be something to argue (that it was illegible).. never mind. I am sure others will be able to advise if there is anything that you can argue in your defence.

 

Your timeline is

 

Issue date 14.01.2015 + 5 days for service = 18.01.2015 + 14 days to acknowledge = 01.02.2015 + 14 days to submit defence = 15.02.2015

 

Yes, I think it would be worth including the agreement on the CPR request - because you are also entitled to receive copies of the terms and conditions from both inception and at the time of default or currently.

[Tonster]

Hiya CB

 

 

Have sent CPR 31.14 request asking for the agreement/statement and NoA, let's see what they come back with.

 

 

Cheers

Tonster

[dx100uk]

and a new CCA request to cabot too.

 

 

 

 

rectums will ignore the CPR

they cant ignore the CCA

 

 

dx

[Tonster]

Okey dokey

[Tonster]

we have a not unsurprising reply from Restons (attached)

 

 

ignoring the CPR request and talking about documents requested not mentioned in the claim

 

 

(this isn't true, only documents mentioned in the claim were requested, namely agreement, statement and NoA)

 

So I guess as defence is due next week

 

 

I should put together some kind of holding defence in light of them supplying no documents whatsoever?

[Tonster]

So I'm thinking this would do as a holding defence in view of no documents provided by Restons

 

Particulars of Claim

 

1.The claimant claims payment of the overdue balance due from the Defendant under a contract between the Defendant and Lloyds Bank dated on or about the Jan ** 2002

 

2.and assigned to the Claimant on Jun ** 2014 in the sum of £11,***.**

 

Particulars a/c no **************

 

 

 

Defence

 

1. It is neither admitted or denied with regards to the defendant entering into an agreement referred to in the Particulars of Claim (‘the Agreement’) the Claimant has yet to disclose any such agreement or clarify any alleged debt.

2. It is denied with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant the claimant has failed to provide any evidence of assignment/balance/breach as requested by CPR 31. 14 and the Claimant is put to strict proof to:

(a) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement with the Claimant; and (b) show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for; and © show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim;

3. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

4. By reason of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.

Edited February 9, 2015 by Andyorch
Particulars brought forward

[AndyOrch]

Responding to your PM Tonster....

 

Standard Restons gobbledygook ...yes look in the DCA Legal success and start to prepare your holding defence.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Tonster]

Hi Andy

 

 

Thanks for looking in, I've put together a proposed holding defence, do I need to add anything more to it or is that sufficient at this stage? Anything incorrect in it?

 

 

Cheers

 

 

Tonster

[AndyOrch]

No section 78 request made?

[Tonster]

Section 78 request was made to the OC some years ago, the result of which I've put in post #3. It took them a year and a half to find even that. This was sent through by Lloyds some years back.

[AndyOrch]

You really should have made a further request to the claimant... (post#2) as they are now the legal owner and are the ones litigating...never the less you can bring that out and expand further should this proceed and you have to submit a witness statement.

 

Because of this your point 1 is now invalid ...because you have not asked the claimant to disclose the agreement nor are they in default of a section 78 request.I accept you have requested it by way of CPR but that is not a valid legal request...only civil which the claimant can decide if to respond to.

[Tonster]

Hi Andy

 

Sorry I wasn't clear,

 

 

section 78 request was also sent to Cabot at the same time as the CPR request to Reston's as advised,

 

 

just haven't had any response to that request so far

(in fact, nothing back from Cabot at all)

 

 

just wanted to mention what I got back from the previous s78 request some years ago.

 

 

As my defence isn't due in until early next week

 

 

I guess unless Cabot get something back before then the defence is ok

 

 

or should I be adding/omitting anything?

 

 

Tonster

[AndyOrch]

Okay......you need to add that a request has been made and as yet the claimant has failed to comply and is in default and it therefore unable to enforce any agreement....look at the other credit card defences in the success forum.

 

Judges dont like " neither admitted or denied "

[Tonster]

Okey dokey, will do, will post up an amended version later

 

 

Cheers

[Tonster]

Hi Andy, please see my amended proposed defence (taken from a couple of threads and amended to suit, mainly with your input on those threads!!), any input on it is again appreciated

 

 

Defence

 

 

1. On receipt of the claim form the Defendant sent a CPR 31.14 request for

a copy of the credit agreement, Notice of Assignment and a statement of account showing how the amount claimed has been reached, to the claimant's solicitors.

The claimant's solicitors have yet to comply.

 

2. Around the same time a section 78 request for a copy of the credit agreement mentioned in the claim was also sent to the claimant.

The claimant has yet to comply.

 

Therefore the claimant in their non compliance to my requests have frustrated my attempts to clarify their claim

and against pre action protocol should be considered when the question of costs arise.

 

3. It is denied with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant,

the Claimant has failed to provide any evidence of assignment/balance/breach as requested by CPR 31. 14 and the Claimant is put to strict proof to:

(a) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement with the Claimant; and

(b) show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for; and

© show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim;

4. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

5. Until such time the Claimant can comply with my request for a copy of the agreement under section 78 of the CCA1974 that it relies upon they are prevented from enforcing or requesting any relief as pursuant to the CCA 1974

6. By reason of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.

[dx100uk]

The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

 

The claim is denied with regards to an amount due under an agreement. The Claimant/Solicitor has refused to disclose any agreement or statements on which its claim relies upon.

[Tonster]

Okey dokey, here goes again thanks DX

 

 

Defence

 

 

1.The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

2. On receipt of the claim form the Defendant sent a CPR 31.14 request for a copy of the credit agreement, Notice of Assignment and a statement of account showing how the amount claimed has been reached, to the claimant's solicitors. The claimant's solicitors have yet to comply.

3. Around the same time a section 78 request for a copy of the credit agreement mentioned in the claim was also sent to the claimant. The claimant has yet to comply.

Therefore the claimant in their non compliance to my requests have frustrated my attempts to clarify their claim and against pre action protocol should be considered when the question of costs arise.

4. It is denied with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant, the Claimant has failed to provide any evidence of assignment/balance/breach as requested by CPR 31. 14 and the Claimant is put to strict proof to:

(a) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement with the Claimant; and

(b) show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for; and

© show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim;

5. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

6.The claim is denied with regards to an amount due under an agreement. The Claimant/Solicitor has refused to disclose any agreement or statements on which its claim relies upon.

7. By reason of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.

[oleg]

Hi Andy, please see my amended proposed defence (taken from a couple of threads and amended to suit, mainly with your input on those threads!!), any input on it is again appreciated

 

 

Defence

 

 

1. On receipt of the claim form the Defendant sent a CPR 31.14 request for

a copy of the credit agreement, Notice of Assignment and a statement of account showing how the amount claimed has been reached, to the claimant's solicitors.

The claimant's solicitors have yet to comply.

 

2. Around the same time a section 78 request for a copy of the PURPORTED credit agreement [X mentioned in the claim X DELETE AS IT WASN'T MENTIONED] was also sent to the claimant.

The claimant has yet to comply.

 

Therefore the claimant in their non compliance to my requests have frustrated my attempts to clarify their claim. I WOULD REQUEST THE COURT THAT THIS CONDUCT, WHICH IS against pre action protocol, should be considered when the question of costs arise.

 

3. It is denied with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant,

the Claimant has failed to provide any evidence of assignment/balance/breach as requested by CPR 31. 14 and the Claimant is put to strict proof to:

(a) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement with the Claimant; and

(b) show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for; and

© show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim;

4. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

5. Until such time the Claimant can comply with my request for a copy of the agreement under section 78 of the CCA1974 that it relies upon they are prevented from enforcing or requesting any relief as pursuant to the CCA 1974

6. By reason of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.

 

Minor tweaks above.

[AndyOrch]

Keep referring to your Particulars....

 

Particulars of Claim

 

1.The claimant claims payment of the overdue balance due from the Defendant under a contract between the Defendant and Lloyds Bank dated on or about the Jan ** 2002

 

2.and assigned to the Claimant on Jun ** 2014 in the sum of £11,***.**

 

Particulars a/c no **************

 

Your responses (particularly 1 & 2 must be in direct response to their 1 & 2) the rest of the holding defence is standard

 

You either admit or deny ....accept or decline...but it must connect to be CPR compliant

[Tonster]

Hi Andy

Right here goes again, might get the hang of this in the end.....

 

 

Particulars of Claim

 

1.The claimant claims payment of the overdue balance due from the Defendant under a contract between the Defendant and Lloyds Bank dated on or about the Jan ** 2002

 

2.and assigned to the Claimant on Jun ** 2014 in the sum of £11,***.**

 

Particulars a/c no **************

1. The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

 

2. Paragraph 1 is denied with regards to an amount due under an agreement/contract. The Claimant/Solicitor has refused to disclose any agreement or statements on which its claim relies upon.

 

3.Paragraph 2 is denied I am unaware of any legal assignment the claimant refers to within its particulars as the claimant/solicitor has refused to disclose any NoA when requested

 

 

4. On receipt of the claim form the Defendant sent a CPR 31.14 request for a copy of the credit agreement, Notice of Assignment and a statement of account showing how the amount claimed has been reached, to the claimant's solicitors. The claimant's solicitors have yet to comply.

 

5. Around the same time a section 78 request for a copy of the purported credit agreement was also sent to the claimant. The claimant has yet to comply.

Therefore the claimant in their non compliance to my requests have frustrated my attempts to clarify their claim and I would request the court that this conduct which is against pre action protocol should be considered when the question of costs arise.

 

6. It is denied with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant, the Claimant has failed to provide any evidence of assignment/balance/breach as requested by CPR 31. 14 and the Claimant is put to strict proof to:

 

(a) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement with the Claimant; and

(b) show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for; and

© show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim;

7. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

8. Until such time the Claimant can comply with my request for a copy of the agreement under section 78 of the CCA1974 that it relies upon they are prevented from enforcing or requesting any relief as pursuant to the CCA 1974

9. On the alternative, if the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the consumer credit Act 1974.

10. By reason of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.