Misold Grazing Land please help :(

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Brigs

 

There is a huge difference between being giving approx 1 acre and 1/4 of an acre.

Hi, Rebel indeed there is, and unfortunately this kind of thing is no uncommon, guess work measurement are common.

 

 

Looking at a "large" area of grassland and attempting to gauge the size id haphazard and one will usually be way out an the assessment.

 

 

The BHS recommends 1- 1.5 acres per horse.

 

 

The OP needs to make a complaint to trading standards about the "misleading " advert the term approximately (size) is often followed by " subject to confirmation".

 

 

I've been involved in riding for longer than I care to remember and even now it is difficult to judge accurately the acreage of a paddock.

[rebel11]

Can you include the steering column?, then I think I would be interested.

 

I'm selling approximately a full car. Might not come with doors, wheels, an engine or seats though. Any offers?

[king12345]

Ideally 1 to 1.5 acres is need, a large horse will quickly eat down to bare earth very quicly

 

The BHS welfare dept gives excellent advice.

I always thought domestic horses would eat hay and other ready made food.

How can a huge animal live on just grass?

[rebel11]

It's necessary for the proper functioning of their digestive system.

 

Horses eat eggs, chaff, apples and carrots, bran, barley, linseed, maize, horse nuts or mixes, cod liver oil, root vegetables, oats, salt, sea weed, dried sugar beet pulp and mollichop. The horses can also take grass and all plant materials.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I always thought domestic horses would eat hay and other ready made food.

How can a huge animal live on just grass?

[Gemma.]

There are many different ways to keep a horse. In the old days we would give them raw eggs and guinness along with bran and hot water after a hard day's riding, but now we know better.

 

I would try all other options especially livery stables first, but I would suggest get the horse somewhere safe.

[emanant]

Hi everyone and thanks again for all your advice. Heres an update and another ask for advice if possible.

 

Kelly was moved yesterday and is now happily stretching her legs in 5 (actual ) of land thats the good news.

 

Now the bad and my dilema.

 

On Sunday I told paul that we would move Kelly and our things from the land, that we would tidy it up and then we would like back the £120 for the 4 weeks rent up front that we paid. He then tells me that the money paid was a bond and that we would not get it back due to the state of the grass. ( it is bad, in 5 weeks it is sparce and the rain and kellys hoofs have turned much of the ground hard. Although i'm not surprised given the small space ). There was no agreement made by me. That money was rent in advance unfortunately it was discussed in a phone call and the only proof is the original information she sent which states 6 weeks in advance rent to be paid. ( they told us 4 was ok later).

 

We would have been happy to cut our losses and take our £120 but they have refused. At our new stables we happened across a couple who were also going to rent a paddock from Paul. They paid £120 rent in advance plus another weeks rent ( they wanted to hold the field till they got a horse ) but contacted the couple to say they no longer needing the land and asked for their £120 back. Paul has ignored all contact and they are in the same boat.

 

I have contacted trading standards and the citizens advice. Neither can help or advise me as the product is land and not goods .

 

I am thrilled Kelly is now on suitable land however this nightmare has been simply awful. I hadn't slept for days, we've endured threats, endless mocking text messages, lies and heartache. It has cost us a lot of money to move Kelly both in transport and rent for her new field. We have found our we are the second people they have ripped off and are determined that they shouldn't take advantage of anyone else. Naive i was but i'd rather be naive than deceitful.

 

Can anyone advise. I do not want to write off this money. This couple are conning people and they shouldn't be getting away with it. A solicitor will probably cost more than i'd get back so i would only like to do this as an absolute last resort. (although i will if necessary). Does anyone else know a different path i can take. A law i can quote? Take them to small claims (and advice on how to do this ). and would any of it even have a chance of a positive outcome and would the judge see it as my own fault for not measuring the land. I don't want this couple laughing up their sleeves should i attempt to chase them and fail. Is there anyone i can report them to? If anyone has any ideas at all please share. I think it is terrible that they can take money people have worked hard for by conning them and then moving onto their next victim.

 

Thanks again everyone

[Gemma.]

I am so glad that you got Kelly out safely and that she is happy. Do you know if the other person that got ripped off is happy to join in with you? Btw do you now have a livery agreement? That is important as it can iron out any problems later on.

 

It's not hard to start a small claim you should be able to use the Moneyclaim online procedure https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/web/mcol/welcome as it was for grazing, and money paid in advance and not really land purchase? But sounds like they will object and file a defence anyway in which case you might have a battle on your hands. Of course it all costs money but that depends on how much you are claiming for. Maybe take a look at the mcol site and then work it all out, sometimes it is better to just walk away. Although I would alert where ever you saw the advert.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

There are many different ways to keep a horse. In the old days we would give them raw eggs and guinness along with bran and hot water after a hard day's riding, but now we know better.

 

I would try all other options especially livery stables first, but I would suggest get the horse safe.

 

 

Send this Paul a letter before action ( you Must be prepared to follow it through)

 

 

You set out what the problems that you want addressed, what you require him to do to rectify your complaint.

 

 

Unless he agrees to your requirement you will start a County Court Claim to recover the money he owes you.

 

 

It might be best to use signed for post, check receipt!

 

 

Also you could deliver the letter by hand so delivery cannot be denied.

[Gemma.]

I wouldn't go for a signed for as most sharks won't take delivery of a signed for letter. Instead get a proof of posting from the post office, they are free and as all you need to prove is that you posted it should suffice?

 

Sorry thought it was a simple money claim?

[rebel11]

Hi emma

 

You have emails stating that the payment is a 'Rental Payment' so they can't say it's a 'Bond'. You could consider speaking to the RSPCA, their actions (Paul & Co.) could result in an innocent party being accused of neglect.

 

Thread moved to General Legal Issues.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

I wouldn't go for a signed for as most sharks won't take delivery of a signed for letter. Instead get a proof of posting from the post office, they are free and as all you need to prove is that you posted it should suffice?

 

Sorry thought it was a simple money claim?

 

 

Both methods apply but If one can hand the letter to the person or as process servers will do photograph the letter being put through the door.

[Gemma.]

hehehe holding that day's newspaper too? But I get your point. I have never had the nerve to actually go near the house of the person though.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

hehehe holding that day's newspaper too? But I get your point. I have never had the nerve to actually go near the house of the person though.

 

 

If there is an imposing male friend or relative to carry out the delivery all the better!!

[unclebulgaria67]

There may be another way. Have you thought about contacting your local newspaper. They like to run stories about animals and problems encountered by people. They might like to feature an item of 2 horse owners who had agreed to rent land via a Facebook add and then ran into these problems. The newspaper will contact the landowner for comment.

 

Atleast this way, you might stop others being conned.

 

I don't think you will get anywhere with a small court claim, because they probably would not pay it. You will then have paid the court fee, probably won a CCJ by default and then have the hassle of trying to get it enforced.

 

Also what about contacting the Police about any threats made to you. Atleast it should be logged at the local Police station.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

There may be another way. Have you thought about contacting your local newspaper. They like to run stories about animals and problems encountered by people. They might like to feature an item of 2 horse owners who had agreed to rent land via a Facebook add and then ran into these problems. The newspaper will contact the landowner for comment.

 

Atleast this way, you might stop others being conned.

 

I don't think you will get anywhere with a small court claim, because they probably would not pay it. You will then have paid the court fee, probably won a CCJ by default and then have the hassle of trying to get it enforced.

 

Also what about contacting the Police about any threats made to you. Atleast it should be logged at the local Police station.

 

 

 

I would most certainly Not recommend publicising this in local press if there is any danger or "retaliation" this would only inflame it.

 

 

So many times such inappropriate action has only increased a simple matter of returning a few pounds has ended in a local vendetta.

 

 

If threats have been made not seen any evidence of such so far the police involvement may be need.

[steampowered]

Legally, I think this is quite straightforward. It makes no difference that we are talking about land instead of goods. From where I sit this is simply a breach of contract. You entered into a contract to rent an acre of land for four weeks, and you actually got only 1/4 of an acre for a week or so. Another way of looking at it would be as a 'misrepresentation', which is the technical name for a claim based on being misled about what you are buying before entering into a contract. The fact that the contract was verbal makes no difference.

 

This area of law is not complicated. You don't need a solicitor - there is a guide to the process here: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?356814-The-Process-of-Litigation..-Court-Claims-Defences.

 

It sounds to me like you have a very strong case as you have a copy of the advert. The other key things you would need to demonstrate the judge are the fact that you paid £120 and the fact that the land was only about 1/4 of an acre. Even if you don't have concrete evidence, you might as well go ahead - remember in civil claims the judge only decides on a 'balance of probabilities', absolute proof is not required.

 

Personally, I would start by aggressively calculating all of your losses. That would include the £120, any additional expenses for hay and the cost of moving the horse at short notice. I would also claim for any additional expenses incurred by paying for the new land during the four week contract period - for example, if the new land costs £45pw then you claim the £15pw difference.

 

You then write a 'letter before action' which sets out how the land you rented does not meet the terms of the advert, and says that you intend to bring a county court claim for breach of contract and misrepresentation. Itemise your losses and state that will intend to bring a claim for the full amount plus costs unless you receive an acceptable response within 14 days. The rules on this are here if you want to read them: http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/pd_pre-action_conduct#A.

 

If they want to offer a compromise, let them suggest a compromise. Otherwise, you follow through and issue a claim for the full amount through MCOL (someone else posted the link for this).

[billybobynumeroduo]

very interesting thread....are there any updates on the matter.

 

regards

 

BB

[Surfer01]

If the money was supposed to be a bond, is that the same as a deposit and the rental is a residential "contract"?

[emanant]

Hi everyone and thanks for the advice. I am now in the process of wring a letter before action. I have outlined everything that has happened the problems and enclosed proof that what they offered was in fact an acre. However the part i am stuck on is the bond. Just to clarify the £120 i paid was not a bond. It was agreed to as 4 weeks rent in advance. The only proof i have of this is the information she initially sent me which states this is what they required. She never sent me a tennacy agreement either. Can anyone advise me on whether or not the rules around deposits applys when it's land if i have no written tenancy agreement.

[unclebulgaria67]

My advice is to keep it simple. You were renting some land per the advert. The land was not as advertised.

 

You don't need to get into some complicated argument at this stage.

 

Personally I don't think I would bother. If you won a CCJ, would these people pay up anyway ?

[emanant]

Thanks ill keep it simple. Im not sure if they will pay but ill be trying even if it costs me. I hate ppl like this they have our hard earned money and i will try the correct way first and see where we go x

[steampowered]

I don't think the rules on deposits would apply as this is not residential property.