Is our landlord breaking the law?

[patch88]

Hello everyone, My partner and I found ourcurrent home online with a private landlord. When we arrived, I noticed therewere three cars in the front yard area of the house, I just assumed thesebelonged to the others in the house. Now the house is a great size, our room ismassive, great garden and kitchen and is handy to work so signed a 6month contract. On the 2nd/3rd day i noticed a few things needed repaired in our room,nothing to expensive but not our job to fix, so I txt the landlord to arrangethis. I found out then that the cars actually belong to the landlord. He sellsthem from our front yard, this means that the others in the house who have cars have to park on the street/road side. So we have people arriving at all times of the day to lookat them. Next thing is that the landlord just lets himself in whenever he wantsfor no apparant reason.

Iv read our contract back to front and know this is completely illegal, thathe is breaking all the rules of his side of the contract.

Our current situation all kicked of last week when all morning he was comingand going from the house and garden (side gate). Not once did he knock or sayhe was coming in. I got really annoyed (like anyone would) as I was in thehouse by myself and felt intimidated. And when he was leaving I slammed thedoor behind him. now I know in hindsight I shouldn’t have, but he’s now tryingto say that I done it to hit him. and Is now saying that I AM beingunreasonable and demanding. That he does not have to and will not give noticewhen coming to the house, that its his house and hel do as he likes. Said he’ll think about knocking, but if no oneanswers after a min, he’s coming in. After this fairly tense discussion aroundhalf an hr later he txt to say we have 2months to get out.

To top this all off, he’s not even our landlord, he’s the landlord’sbrother!

What should we do?? As much as I dislike this man, we are in a great house,great location with lovely people, neither of us want to leave but this can’tcontinue

Are we intitled to our despoit back?

[SabreSheep]

This is out of order.

 

What sort of tenancy do you have?

 

If he is violating the tenancy send a written complaint and draw to certain sections of the tenancy to support your claim.

State that by not honoring his obligations it could amount to harassment and by not controlling his brother he is allowing his brother to harass you.

[patch88]

Looking at the contact now, It just says "Tenancy Agreement - England and Wales, for furnised House or Flat on an assured Shorthold Tenancy". Like it clearly states in several parts about "no unreasonable interruption" "needs our consent to use keys" & "must give 24hrs written notice when needing to endtre the house". Now I am no expect but I think what this man is doing is wrong and illegal. Another thing. I ask for a copy of the gas safety cerfiticate . his response "WHY?" because A) i want to know I am safe & B) its the law. He took a right strop at that and like always landed round unannounced without knocking with the gas man. Turns out the pervious certificate was months out of date

 

I said to him that he was breaking his side of the contract and he just laughed at me. Im only 26 but I'm not an idiot.

[renegadeimp]

Quick question. Does your ll know his brother is doing this and could subject both his brother and himself to legal action

[mariner51]

SS, if you read the OP carefully, you will see it is not the LL breaching 'quiet enjoyment.' but his brother, with no contractual rights app

OP, first inform you LL of hi brother's actions. If brother does not take the hint, next time he arrives and enters property, call the Police on 101 to report a suspicious person attempting to gain access and try to get a photo for ID purposes, & report the illegal car lot to TS & Planning dept.

I assume neither LL nor brother lives in the property, so who actually owns it & how come brother has entry key?

[SabreSheep]

SS, if you read the OP carefully, you will see it is not the LL breaching 'quiet enjoyment.' but his brother, with no contractual rights app

OP, first inform you LL of hi brother's actions. If brother does not take the hint, next time he arrives and enters property, call the Police on 101 to report a suspicious person attempting to gain access and try to get a photo for ID purposes, & report the illegal car lot to TS & Planning dept.

I assume neither LL nor brother lives in the property, so who actually owns it & how come brother has entry key?

 

read again. First block of text from op states that LL lets himself in. Also LL is not doing repairs he should be doing. Constitutes harassment in its own right.

 

Agree with police report though for bro

[stu007]

Hi

 

Have a read of these links: https://www.gov.uk/private-renting/your-rights-and-responsibilities

 

http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/private_renting/about_private_renting/landlords_responsibilities

[mariner51]

SS, I agree OP is confused over who the LL is. Do the cars belong to LL or brother, who has OP been texting about repairs, LL or brother?

A good reason why requests for repairs etc should also be snail-mailed to address on AST for 'service of Notices'.

Also OP has given no timescale of how far into T and how long OP has waited for LL response.

Delay in repair, unless prolonged by weeks or months, IMO does not constitute harassment. OP fails to identify 'inexpensive' repairs that are 'not Ts resp'.

 

 

I await OPs clarification to all questions raised

[patch88]

Quick question. Does your ll know his brother is doing this and could subject both his brother and himself to legal action

 

 

Wev been here in the house 4weeks now and it only came to my attention about 8/9days ago that this man isnt the actual landlord. When he produced the contract his part was already signed and I thought nothing of it, but I happened to look at the signatures closey around a wk or two ago to see was he allowed to sell the cars from our yard and I noticed the main one is a womans name. I ask our house mates about this and they said its our "landlords" sister, that its technically her house but he acts in her behalf. But he is only signed as a witness on the contract, nowhere in the contract does it state that he can legally enter/do repairs/collect rent etc on her behalf. So yes I am presuming she knows what hes at.

[patch88]

SS, if you read the OP carefully, you will see it is not the LL breaching 'quiet enjoyment.' but his brother, with no contractual rights app

OP, first inform you LL of hi brother's actions. If brother does not take the hint, next time he arrives and enters property, call the Police on 101 to report a suspicious person attempting to gain access and try to get a photo for ID purposes, & report the illegal car lot to TS & Planning dept.

I assume neither LL nor brother lives in the property, so who actually owns it & how come brother has entry key?

 

See I think that she knows her brother is doing this, as he said to me "I spoke to my sister about your door slamming and demanding repairs and its not on" so I take that as yes she knows. Yes iv been advised to contact the police, but I am worried theres some clause that will get him off the hook and he'l sue us or make our lives a misery! Same applys to the situation with the cars. If he had made it clear from the start what the situation was we could have come to some short of arrangment but he just laughed and said "iv been doing this 20yrs and thats the way its gona stay" it clearly says in the contract that we rent the entire property, which includes front and back garden. Could we ask for a rent reduction? No neither the actual landlord or this phony landlord live in the house

[renegadeimp]

There is no clause. If the LL has given you tenancy over the full property, he cannot do what he is doing. It really is as simple as that. He definitley cannot come and go whenever he wants.

[patch88]

SS, I agree OP is confused over who the LL is. Do the cars belong to LL or brother, who has OP been texting about repairs, LL or brother?

A good reason why requests for repairs etc should also be snail-mailed to address on AST for 'service of Notices'.

Also OP has given no timescale of how far into T and how long OP has waited for LL response.

Delay in repair, unless prolonged by weeks or months, IMO does not constitute harassment. OP fails to identify 'inexpensive' repairs that are 'not Ts resp'.

 

 

I await OPs clarification to all questions raised

 

 

The cars appear to belong to this man we thought was our landlord, and as this man is our only point of contact I have been txting him about repairs etc. The only contact available for the actual landlord is a hoilday home in Spain, no phone number provided. We are now here 4 goin on 5weeks. Like I say when we arrived all his part of the contract was signed so I never really looked at it I just read the terms, and it was only after a bit of investigation that this has all come to light. When I txt about repairs he'd usually reply within a few hours/day and say he'd short it. I would try and arrange a time for him to come but he wouldnt reply to that. Would like I say just turn up and let himself in. The repairs were the blind in our room, lack of light blubs in landing/hallways/spare room (previous tenant had smashed them all) bedside lamp broke, kitchen chairs ready to fall apart and the lack of a mop for the kitchen. So like I say nothing major or expensive but things that we shouldnt have to fix, like between my partner and I and the others we are paying over £2000 a month for this house and youd expect simple things like that to be sorted without a problem. But apparently he considers them requests as demanding and unresonable.

[patch88]

There is no clause. If the LL has given you tenancy over the full property, he cannot do what he is doing. It really is as simple as that. He definitley cannot come and go whenever he wants.

 

 

So is he able to ask us to leave? as he has broken so many terms of this contract and isnt even the actual landlord could we demand our deposit back if we were to leave? This is so annoying, you find a great house, in a great area and have a ******* for a "landlord"

[fletch70]

If I have read this correctly you do not have tenancy on the full house because you share it with others. It is possible therefore that the LL or their agent can enter the communal parts of he property.

As for telling you to get out, well you have a 6 month AST ( I am assuming) so you are safe for 6 months . I also believe that you would be entitled to give a list of repairs needed to the LL and give them a time limit. After that you could get them done and take the money from the rent , providing you had warned them and given them the receipts.

 

I would suggest that you call shelter to check on your position.

 

When you moved in did the LL give you a S21 notice . If not even at the end of the 6 month tenancy they would be required to give you that to get an eviction order , that in itself would give you another 2 months.

 

You have said that you like the property and I assume would like to stay?

If you follow the above route I suspect that at the end of the 6 months your tenancy will not be renewed so you have to think about the pros and cons.

 

In summary I would check the exact legal position before you start throwing accusations around

[patch88]

If I have read this correctly you do not have tenancy on the full house because you share it with others. It is possible therefore that the LL or their agent can enter the communal parts of he property.

As for telling you to get out, well you have a 6 month AST ( I am assuming) so you are safe for 6 months . I also believe that you would be entitled to give a list of repairs needed to the LL and give them a time limit. After that you could get them done and take the money from the rent , providing you had warned them and given them the receipts.

 

I would suggest that you call shelter to check on your position.

 

When you moved in did the LL give you a S21 notice . If not even at the end of the 6 month tenancy they would be required to give you that to get an eviction order , that in itself would give you another 2 months.

 

You have said that you like the property and I assume would like to stay?

If you follow the above route I suspect that at the end of the 6 months your tenancy will not be renewed so you have to think about the pros and cons.

 

In summary I would check the exact legal position before you start throwing accusations around

 

Thanks for the feedback but I am not really sure what you mean by throwing accusations around. Iv clearly stated that iv read the contract (every part) at least 5/6 times so I know what rules we and the landlord/this man have to abide by. It clearly says he cannot enter the property (as in the front door, not our bedroom door) without mine or anyone else in the houses premission, legally he is meant to give 24hrs written notice, he can retain keys for emergancys only. And it says that we must maintain front and back garden to a resonable standard, so I am taking that as "the entire property". No where on the contract does it say he'll be running a business from our front yard, and he did not inform us that the cars in the drive were actually his when we went to see the house. I think the main point here is, he isnt the landlord - he is the landlords brother. So I want to know if he is even allowed to enter the house at all. Does he even have the authority to tell us to leave?

As for the repairs, he carried them out but them accused me of being demanding - the blind in our room for example spent most of the time lying on the floor because the hooks holding it up were broke - he considers this an unresonable request. Our housemates told us that he knew of all these repairs needing done 1week before we moved in because they pointed them out to him.

 

No he never gave us a s21 - what is this? Iv only rented in Ireland before this so might have a different name

[patch88]

One other point, you say he might technically have premission to enter communal parts of the house - does this include stopping at the house, running in and using the toilet and leaving again? Our bathroom is right beside the front door so he got in and left without been seen but I watched him from my bedroom window and heard him use the toilet

[fletch70]

Hi

When i said before throwing accusations around I did not mean now, I was meaning before you decide on the next course of action. An example would be, if you were going to make an issue of harassment just be 100% aware of the facts and what is and isn't allowed.

It is possible that acting as the LL's representative gives him certain rights just as an agency who manage a property have rights.

 

A S21 notice is a section 21 notice and it is what needs to be served to end a tenancy on a no fault basis. Some LL's issue these at the start of the tenancy with a date for moving out at the completion, it means that should you refuse to go they have already served notice on you and can go straight to a court order. If he has not served one he can not force you out until the tenancy is up AND he has served a correctly filled out one. It needs to give you two clear months starting on the day the rent is due. If for example the rent is due monthly on the last day of the month and they give you the notice on the 1st of the month the two months do not start to run until the end of that monthbecause he was late serving it

 

Does he have any tame tenants in the house who would say oh yes we let him in or some such

 

I believe that for certain issues you can contact your local council and hey can intervene but i still suggest having a word with Shelter

[*RainbowTears*]

I have to be honest, I'm a bit confused.

 

As you stated you rented the house privately & you signed a 6mth contract. Your paying over £2000 per month for the "whole property" including front & back gardens.

 

So based on them facts alone, your LL, LL brother/sister cannot legally enter your property as & when they like, let alone run a car selling business. As this is "your" home.

 

Yet you also mention having housemates, who going by what you also previously said;

Our housemates told us that he knew of all these repairs needing done 1week before we moved in because they pointed them out to him.

 

So this to me reads like your housemates were already living in this property before you moved in & that you all in fact share this house now! So which statement is correct?

 

As for the repairs, you said;

 

The repairs were the blind in our room, lack of light blubs in landing/hallways/spare room (previous tenant had smashed them all) bedside lamp broke, kitchen chairs ready to fall apart and the lack of a mop for the kitchen.

 

I don't understand why you couldn't replace the bulbs yourself or even purchased a mop. I've been in the Private Rented sector a long time & I've always replaced light bulbs & I've certainly never asked a LL to do it or buy me a mop!!

 

As for items that were broken etc surely when you went to view the property did you not ask the LL about them? Was an Inventory done where these items were highlighted?

 

There's more I could add, but the OP posts are making less sense to me. As if I was paying rent of over £2000 a month under the OPs circumstances I'd be long gone!!

[patch88]

Hi

When i said before throwing accusations around I did not mean now, I was meaning before you decide on the next course of action. An example would be, if you were going to make an issue of harassment just be 100% aware of the facts and what is and isn't allowed.

It is possible that acting as the LL's representative gives him certain rights just as an agency who manage a property have rights.

 

A S21 notice is a section 21 notice and it is what needs to be served to end a tenancy on a no fault basis. Some LL's issue these at the start of the tenancy with a date for moving out at the completion, it means that should you refuse to go they have already served notice on you and can go straight to a court order. If he has not served one he can not force you out until the tenancy is up AND he has served a correctly filled out one. It needs to give you two clear months starting on the day the rent is due. If for example the rent is due monthly on the last day of the month and they give you the notice on the 1st of the month the two months do not start to run until the end of that monthbecause he was late serving it

 

Does he have any tame tenants in the house who would say oh yes we let him in or some such

 

I believe that for certain issues you can contact your local council and hey can intervene but i still suggest having a word with Shelter

 

 

Riteo, I thought you meant what I was saying on here, n thats why I am on here posting this situation because I need to know where we stand. Iv tryed talking to him but he doesnt seem to take me seriously. I dont think anyone has ever said this to him before. I live with 4men, to be honest I dont think theyd notice if there was a pink elephant in the house never mind the landlord coming and going. See even if they are not working they are hardly ever in the house so they dont notice it as much as I do. Iv talked to them about it and they dont think its right but I cant imagine them ever doing anything about it. Thats very interesting about the s21. I must keep that in mind if it all kicks of again. I have to go into town today, I might call into the local housing office just to see what they say about it all.

Cheers

[fletch70]

Hi

I am also confused

 

I think the reference for the rent is based on the total rent being paid by all but I can also see a mention that the tenancy is for the whole house , is that a typo because if not why are the other 3 men living their ( I am assuming its you and a partner/boyfriend and then maybe 3 other single males . BTW us men do notice things

 

Although I think that level of rent is high and you could possibly rent a property for less my Nephew and his housemates pay that between them in a student area.

 

I would also imagine that light bulbs are not covered in the rent, I always replace mine although my LL pays for a smoke alarm battery (all £1 of it)

 

Please also remember that should you wish to move out before the 6 months are up you will need to be able to prove a substantial breach of contract that you tried to fix otherwise you could end up with a hefty bill

[patch88]

I have to be honest, I'm a bit confused.

 

As you stated you rented the house privately & you signed a 6mth contract. Your paying over £2000 per month for the "whole property" including front & back gardens.

 

So based on them facts alone, your LL, LL brother/sister cannot legally enter your property as & when they like, let alone run a car selling business. As this is "your" home.

 

Yet you also mention having housemates, who going by what you also previously said;

 

So this to me reads like your housemates were already living in this property before you moved in & that you all in fact share this house now! So which statement is correct?

 

As for the repairs, you said;

 

I don't understand why you couldn't replace the bulbs yourself or even purchased a mop. I've been in the Private Rented sector a long time & I've always replaced light bulbs & I've certainly never asked a LL to do it or buy me a mop!!

 

As for items that were broken etc surely when you went to view the property did you not ask the LL about them? Was an Inventory done where these items were highlighted?

 

There's more I could add, but the OP posts are making less sense to me. As if I was paying rent of over £2000 a month under the OPs circumstances I'd be long gone!!

 

 

Right sorry if your confused about anything, Ill go a point at a time.

 

Yes, three other fellas were living in the property before we arrived, I think theyv been here around 6months. They all have the same contracts as us - which all state that basically we rent this house as a group, we abide by the rules together and in return the landlord will abide by his - I think houseshare is a farily common situation in London, so no need to go into that to much.

 

I to have rented before and if something as cheap as a light bulb or mop has run its course yes I will replace it, this may sound silly to you but when viewing a house in the day time - bright sunny day, you dont tend to have all the lights going, so it went unnoticed. And as the house has large windows in all the rooms in the long bright evenings you dont tend to have all lights on. The main bedroom lights where working so thats why I didnt notice until the 2/3rd day. When I did go to put the hall lights on I looked and seen that there wasnt even a bulb, same for the landing and spare room. I ask my house mate did they have any spare and he said no that the pervious tenant had smashed them all when she was drunk. They said to the landlord and he said he'd replace them with the dearer energy saving type. In regards to the mop, our "landlord" has a shed in our garden and I ask was they any chance he'd have a mop in it, said no, but he'd get us one. So I was simply reminding him of his offer to replace this stuff, to which he then decided that I was being unreasonable, even though he offered in the first place. Maybe I should have stated all these details in the the OP, but didnt think it was necessary to go into so much detail about bulbs or mops.

 

Please add more as I am interested to hear your thoughts

 

When you say youd be long gone under these circumstances, when comparing this house to others we viewed its a palace, like i said before, its a great house, huge rooms, great size garden, and very handy to work. So no, I dont want to leave that easily. But when paying Londons ridiculous rents I would expect that we are provided with the basics to live in the house. It was advertised as a furnished house. So if an item in the house needs replaced it clearly says in the contract that it will be done, even more so when the landlord says he will do it.

 

I dont think any of my posts havent made sense, maybe you just arent reading them correctly.

• Landlord lets himself in whenever the notion takes
  
• He runs an illegal car selling business in our front yard
  
• and he expects his rent on the dot each month and us to abide by the rules but yet he does as he pleases and when asked about a repair he said he'd carry out he gets angry
  
• PLUS hes not even the landlord - he is the landlords brother and nowhere on the contract does it say he can legally act on behalf of his sister, he is just signed as a witness.
  

These are my areas of concern - I was simply adding the points about the items that needed replaced to give an example of how he treats us.

[patch88]

Hi

I am also confused

 

I think the reference for the rent is based on the total rent being paid by all but I can also see a mention that the tenancy is for the whole house , is that a typo because if not why are the other 3 men living their ( I am assuming its you and a partner/boyfriend and then maybe 3 other single males . BTW us men do notice things

 

Although I think that level of rent is high and you could possibly rent a property for less my Nephew and his housemates pay that between them in a student area.

 

I would also imagine that light bulbs are not covered in the rent, I always replace mine although my LL pays for a smoke alarm battery (all £1 of it)

 

Please also remember that should you wish to move out before the 6 months are up you will need to be able to prove a substantial breach of contract that you tried to fix otherwise you could end up with a hefty bill

 

The rent I mentioned is between all of us. I wasnt trying to insult men as a whole, I was simply referring to my housemates.

 

Before I txt him about the bulbs I checked the contract and it says that items broken or damaged by previous tenants (basically when its not our fault) will be replaced, and like I said he told my housemate that he was going to replace them, and he said the same to me about the mop.

 

This is going abit of track here, this man who is technically not my landlord comes in and out as he pleases and he runs an illegal business from our garden.

I dont want to leave because it is a great house, but I need to know where we stand on these issues

[*RainbowTears*]

Fletch70 come join me on the "I'm totally confused sofa"! lol

 

Seriously if your paying over £2000 a month rent, for a property regardless if it's one couple or 5 men, you would notice the fact that someone's going in & out the property who doesn't actually live there & is operating an "illegal" (used loosely as no idea what the facts are) Car Sales business!

 

I certainly would in my current house. (despite it being a very large 4 bed house)

 

 

As the facts of your situation are somewhat confusing, it may be best that you do go to your local Council Housing office for advice. Take any paperwork you have pertaining to renting this property & tell them everything that's concerning you.

 

I also do think you need to clarify the whereabouts of your initial deposit. As this should have been paid into a TDS account to safeguard you both as a Tenant & a LL.

 

@Fletch I totally agree re light bulbs as can you imagine a LL reaction to being called out to replace one esp say late at night!! It would surely come under Tenant maintaining the upkeep of the property, as is cleaning windows/cutting grass/cleaning etc etc ......

[patch88]

Fletch70 come join me on the "I'm totally confused sofa"! lol

 

Seriously if your paying over £2000 a month rent, for a property regardless if it's one couple or 5 men, you would notice the fact that someone's going in & out the property who doesn't actually live there & is operating an "illegal" (used loosely as no idea what the facts are) Car Sales business!

 

I certainly would in my current house. (despite it being a very large 4 bed house)

 

 

As the facts of your situation are somewhat confusing, it may be best that you do go to your local Council Housing office for advice. Take any paperwork you have pertaining to renting this property & tell them everything that's concerning you.

 

I also do think you need to clarify the whereabouts of your initial deposit. As this should have been paid into a TDS account to safeguard you both as a Tenant & a LL.

 

@Fletch I totally agree re light bulbs as can you imagine a LL reaction to being called out to replace one esp say late at night!! It would surely come under Tenant maintaining the upkeep of the property, as is cleaning windows/cutting grass/cleaning etc etc ......

 

 

Sorry but I really dont see whats so confusing and funny.

 

but now i'm abit bewildered at your point - "you would notice someone going in and out of the house and having a car selling business at your house" Of course Iv noticed! why do you think I am on here. Hes not going to tell me when signing the contract oh by the way I come and go as I please and dont give a **** what you say and also see them cars that you think belong to your housemates there actually mine and I sell them cash in hand on the sly.

 

Im not actually sure where you got the statement that I called my "landlord" out late at night to replace a bulb, Im not that stupid and patheic. If you read my posts correctly my housemate said to him when it happened and like I said, he offered because the girl before us got drunk and smashed them all. Apparently he got the money of her to replace them, as she broke them

[fletch70]

Can we just chill a little and not take everything so literally, that goes for me as well

 

Sometimes it is hard to fully understand the points being made and when you have been around a while there are times you get suckered in by people with nothing better to do and hence become a little cynical when you read things that aren't obvious. I am not suggesting this is the case here, it is just an observation.

 

IMHO from what you say the LL's brother is probably within his rights to be acting as an agent for his sister but unless there is proof to the contrary should not be entering the house at will . You have mentioned a front and rear garden as well as a front yard . Personally I think using the driveway is unfair but again depending on exact wordings in the tenancy not necessarily wrong.

 

As before I suggest shelter or your local council housing dept for advice. If there is a definite business being run from the property then I am guessing the council and possibly tax man will be interested but as I said before be aware that making accusations could blow up in your face and will almost certainly scupper your chances of staying there